Would love some advice from the experts on this forum.

A few weeks ago, while reading about hypothyroidism, I began to realize I had most of the symptoms, some of which have been long-term and on-going. Some began a few months ago: dry skin, coarse hair, chronic constipation, sparse ancillary hair, losing body fat but not weight despite eating 1k LC calories a day, or 2k LC calories a day or anything in-between. I haven't lost a pound for 2 years. Then there's the especially low temperature. Most mornings, 95.2, afternoons 96-97, evenings no higher than 96.

After reviewing my diet, which is all made from scratch, I realized that I was getting zero iodine, and probably very little selenium. I ordered some of that, and some kelp, which arrived exactly a week ago - last Friday. I took my first dose last Saturday morning.

Within 24 hours my temperature rose a point. This evening, it's 98.4 - a number I haven't seen in decades. I feel warmer. No more cold feet, hands or nose. My face, normally very pale, isn't flushed, but my cheeks are light pink. My concentration and ability to work this week was amazingly high. And I've lost 2.5 pounds.

I'm thinking, well - my diagnosis was pretty darn good. Or am I kidding myself and this is all coincidence? OTOH, it seems to me that if my thyroid was really in good shape, the kelp wouldn't have done a thing, would it?

In the meantime, I called my doctor and asked for the results of my last TSH test. He said I had it tested over 3 years ago. Result: 1.5

Is it possible for me to be hypo with that number? Or is it possible that when I'm tested in a few weeks it will show that it's much higher now? Could the thryroid deteriorate in just a few years?

My biggest concern is that the new test will still show me in the 'normal' range, and my doctor will refuse to give me a prescription. This worries me, because I don't believe that kelp alone will be enough to fix it.

Any ideas and suggestions (especially if you think I'm right to believe this past week proves there's a problem with my thyroid) will be appreciated.

Lisa

Thyroid problems come from autoimmune diseases or lack of iodine. The thyroid needs iodine to create thyroid hormone. So if that was your problem then taking the kelp might fix it. If it's autoimmune then they can test you for antibodies, although getting them to do that is hard sometimes.

I agree with Nancy. To answer your other questions, though, yes, you could still be hypo with a TSH of 1.5. TSH alone is not enough; a complete thyroid profile should be done. And, yes, your thyroid could have been fine three years ago and not now. Having said all that, I would do my best to treat it naturally rather than starting on thyroid medications, so I hope the supplements work.

Do you eat eggs and cheese? If so, you're probably getting more iodine than you realize:

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?...utrient&dbid=69



Here are some foods that are high in selenium:

http://www.nutritiondata.com/foods-...0000000000.html

I react to selenium supplements, so I have to try to get it in my diet.

Judy, I do eat eggs and occasional cheese, but clearly not enough of either on a daily or weekly basis or I wouldn't have needed the kelp to actually change things like my body temp.


Why is that? Most of the folks who have written here about taking them, especially the natural derivatives like Armour, have posted how much improved they are by them. I guess I must have missed any problems or side effects (aside from taking too much, which is true of anything) - can you elaborate?

Thanks!

Lisa

Getting my doc to do anything other than be visibly irritated with me about why I have the nerve to think I know as much as he does about some things (like the lipid theory, etc.) is nigh on to impossible.

And yes, I know I should find another doc, but the last one I tried (in an attempt to find a new one) threw me out of her office on the first visit when I told her I'd decreased my cholesterol from 330 to 200 by LC diet alone instead of taking the statins my doc insisted I take - and which I refused because they not only don't do anything for women, they harm women my age. Turns out she's a Lipitor pimp and was horrified by my insane beliefs.

I'm just hoping his desire to get me out of his office as quickly as possible will help me get what I need if I look like I'm just going to sit there and argue with him.

Lisa

Well, if you've got the money for it there are a lot of blood tests you can get run on your own. I don't know if thyroid antibodies is one or not. Lef.org has a lot, healthcheckusa.com, and many others. Sometimes I do that then bring the results to my doctor.

But getting a doctor to prescribe thyroid hormone if your TSH is low is going to be really, really hard.

Thyroid hormones aren't always the solution either. Personally I didn't like natural thyroid at all, there is a higher percentage of T3 in it than in human hormones and it made me feel awful. Getting too much thyroid will make you feel nasty too. Tired but wired is how I always felt. Insomnia, racing heart, palpitations, etc. Yuck!

Since I am one of the many people I know who don't feel better on thyroid meds, I've been researching this. Apparently, there are more of us out there than I ever realized. Most doctors (and many people who have done well on thyroid meds or who just hope that thyroid meds could be a cure-all for them) think that people can just pop thyroid pills daily, and all their problems are solved. Unfortunately, it doesn't work so easily for everyone. I'll copy a post that I made on another board about this (I'll warn you that it's long; you may get bored before finishing it!):

Before I started taking thyroid meds, I had many of the symptoms of hypothyroidism. In addition to showing hypothyroid on blood work, I also tested positive for antibodies, which showed that I have Hashimoto’s Disease. (One endocrinologist never tested me for antibodies to diagnose me but said that she felt sure that I also have Graves’ Disease.)

Right after I started taking the meds, I felt a lot better. Unfortunately, feeling better didn’t last long. Within no time, not only was I not feeling well, but I was feeling worse than ever. I had more symptoms than ever (fatigue, pain of all sorts, etc.), and dealing with stress was impossible. I couldn’t even deal with situations of stress that I used to find enjoyable (competition, movies that keep you on edge, etc.). I then tried Armour Thyroid, and just as I initially felt better after starting Synthroid, but it didn’t last, I also felt a little better (not as much as before) when I started taking Armour Thyroid, but that didn’t last, either. I’m now on both Armour and Synthroid and still never feel well.

In my experience, most doctors have no clue what to do about it. If your levels are within range, they assume you’re okay. If your levels are not within range, they change your meds. If you feel horrible, oh, well, you just have to deal with it. A few doctors will adjust your meds based on symptoms, which usually means an increase, but I honestly don’t think that’s the answer, either.

I haven’t personally found endocrinologists to be any more helpful than other doctors. In fact, one of my worst experiences was with an endo. I went into her office and filled out the paperwork that had a symptoms checklist. I filled it out as honestly and completely as I could. The doctor called me in, looked down at the list, looked at me in a snotty way, and in a Roseanne Barr–type voice said, “You can’t have all of this wrong with you. Now what did you come in for?!”

I wanted to cry, and I wanted to run out the door, which I probably should have done, but since I was almost out of thyroid meds and didn’t have the energy to go to another doctor’s appointment somewhere else, I said, “I’m almost out of thyroid meds. I need my blood work done.” (I have since found out that the majority of the symptoms that were on the paper can all be related in some way to hypothyroidism.)

I like the doctor I’m seeing now, but he doesn’t think outside the box, either. When I first started seeing him, he would take his time with me, and he was always the one who’d call me with the results. However, his practice has gotten busier, which means he spends less time with each patient and has someone else call with the results. The last time I had blood work, he checked my IgA level along with doing a celiac panel, and the girl who called didn’t even mention that my IgA was really low. I only found that out when I got a copy of my results after requesting it. I also saw that he had done a pediatric celiac panel instead of an adult panel. I’ve never even bothered to ask him about it.

I can’t even count how many times I’ve been to the doctor and described my symptoms and was told, “Yeah, it sounds like you probably need your dose increased; you’re having hypothyroid symptoms,” only to test “normal” and be told, “Well, everything is fine!”

“No, everything is NOT fine. It is NOT normal to feel this way. What else could be wrong with me?”

Now along with everything else, I have multiple allergies and multiple chemical sensitivities. I no longer even bother mentioning that because the doctor will just think that I’m a nut. After all, no one can really react to that many things, right?

I’ve been researching trying to find answers. Everything keeps going in circles and coming back together, but it seems that there are no easy answers. For a while now in my research, everything keeps pointing to systemic yeast, which most conventional doctors deny exists. Well, oddly enough, or maybe not so odd, the diet for it is virtually the same as the one given to me about six years ago by the allergist who told me that I was allergic to yeast and molds and a whole slew of other things based on skin testing. I think there’s something to that. Well, guess what? Autoimmune diseases like Hashimoto’s commonly go along with systemic yeast (chronic candidiasis).

Multiple chemical sensitivities and allergies also occur more often in people with autoimmune diseases. In addition to that, it’s common for such people to have an overgrowth of yeast and a life history that leads to such an overgrowth.

Then there are the mercury fillings which we’re still supposed to believe are safe. Well, I recently found a study that showed that there is a connection between mercury fillings and Hashimoto’s Disease. Especially since I was told by my optometrist when I was a teenager that I was allergic to thimerosal (I had to make my own saline solution back then because there were no thimerosal-free solutions available), I’d love to get my fillings removed and see if it helps me.

Something else I’ve come across recently that goes along with all of this and makes a lot of sense deals with adrenal fatigue. Basically, the idea is that in some of us, our adrenal glands are already overstressed. Then our bodies start to suffer from it, leading to such problems as low thyroid levels. Well, doctors don’t address the adrenal issues because unless something like this shows up nicely on their neat little tests, it isn’t real, so all they address are the thyroid issues. We are then given thyroid meds, which temporarily make us feel a little better. However, the medication gives too much energy to our already overstressed adrenals, thus making them crash. Then we have adrenal fatigue. Now our thyroid meds no longer help us to feel better, and we feel worse than ever.

Meanwhile, since we are artificially giving our bodies the thyroid hormones our thyroid normally has to make on its own (even if in so-called “natural” form), the thyroid begins to realize that it doesn’t need to make the hormones anymore. As a result, we often find that we slowly must increase our thyroid meds over the years.

Since all of our glands work together, that’s not all that is affected. In some of us, apparently our pituitary glands also start to think that they no longer need to do anything for our thyroids, either, and they reduce or stop the production of TSH. Over the years, our TSHs get lower, but we still must increase our meds in order for our T3 and T4 to be “normal.” I haven’t seen this documented anywhere. I’m basing this on my very small sample of people who are on thyroid meds who also bother to get copies of their test results.

In my case, my T3 and T4 are basically in the low normal range, yet my TSH is also in the low normal range. It’s not supposed to work that way. Worse yet are my sister and a friend of mine who have been on thyroid meds longer than I have. In order to get their T3 and T4 in normal ranges, their TSHs are extraordinarily low. My sister’s TSH isn’t even detectable, and my friend’s is just above being detectable. This can’t be good. Then, of course, their doctors deal with their issues in totally different ways. My sister’s doctor doesn’t seem the least bit concerned, and my friend’s doctor keeps trying to decrease her medication even though her T3 and T4 are in the normal range with the meds she is taking.

Back to adrenal fatigue, as I mentioned before, most conventional doctors don’t really believe it exists. They would probably laugh at you if you asked about that—either that or run a simple, inadequate test and announce that you’re fine. This is an area where a naturopath is supposed to be able to help. There are tests that can be done to check your cortisol and DHEA levels, along with other hormones if necessary, and then the naturopath can advise you on supplements to help support the adrenals to get them to begin functioning properly again. You’re not supposed to have to take the supplements forever. Unfortunately, in most cases, naturopaths are not covered by health insurance, so this isn’t an option for me.

I have found online that you can order your own tests, but I have read differing viewpoints on whether or not this is even necessary. I also found websites by doctors who give protocols to follow to get your adrenals working properly again. As you might expect, though, their goal is to sell their products. At first this was a turnoff for me, but then I told myself that people don’t generally do this type of thing for free. Doctors everywhere are out to make a profit. At least in this case, they’re not getting kickbacks from pharmaceutical companies for drugs that they prescribe to you while you have no idea that they benefit that way.

Part of the problem for me is that I react to so many different things, so I often can’t take supplements that have multiple ingredients. I’m trying to balance everything and figure out how I can take the things I need without taking something to which I’ll react. Cost is already a factor, and buying supplements individually is even more expensive than buying multiple ingredients together; so that’s a problem. I haven’t even been able to find a multi-vitamin that I can take!

I’m trying to organize everything and figure out what to do. I’m working on my yeast issues right now, and I’m hoping to be able to ease into this other stuff. I have cut back on my thyroid meds (I haven’t had blood work done to see what my numbers look like yet), and I hope to be able to continue to do so. Oddly enough, when I first cut my thyroid meds, I felt better than I did before, but I didn’t seem to be unable to hold out as long; however, after being on the new dose for a while, I seemed to level out and feel better overall. I also was able to go to sleep more easily.

I know that people think I’m nuts for cutting my thyroid meds on my own, but all I can do is to try to get my health back. I have reached a point where I’ve realized that I can’t count on a doctor or anyone else to get me healthier, so I have to try to do it on my own. I feel quite a bit better since I started the anti-Candida diet. I just hope that I can continue to make progress.

You can get Graves and Hashi's at the same time. I'm not sure exactly what the symptoms are... Graves disease causes hyperthyroid, Hashi's go the other way usually, but in fits.

I'm a bit skeptical of the adrenal fatigue thing because I've never really heard anyone say they were helped significantly by some therapy. I keep hearing how they're getting treated, or someone told them they have a problem, but you'd think if it was a major help they'd be shouting it from the rooftops and I haven't really encountered that.

I appreciate your reposting your long note, which I read carefully, but as I don't have fatigue, stress or allergies, or adrenal problems, I suspect most of it won't apply to me - or at least I hope not.

What does come through loud and clear though, is the abysmal state of medical practice, which does affect us all - especially smart, uppity women who bother to learn a lot about a lot. Doctors and their staff do NOT appreciate us. At all. I know exactly how you felt in the Endo's office - wanting to tell her off, but knowing she (or someone like her) was the gatekeeper between you and the medicine you needed. Shameful that anyone should be put through that indignity, but it happens every day.

I hope you find something that makes you feel better soon.

Lisa

I'm not skeptical of adrenal fatigue for a variety of reasons. First, many of the symptoms that people with hypothyroidism have, such as unable to deal with stress, are actually symptoms which the adrenals control. Just because conventional medicine doesn't yet have a test for it unless you have Addison's doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Even tests and treatments for thyroid conditions are relatively new in the world of medicine.

As for no one being helped by being treated for adrenal fatigue, I have read success stories. I don't know anyone in real life who has such a story, but then again, I know no one in real life who has ever even attempted treatment. Also, just as I know numerous people who haven't been successfully treated with thyroid medications, it would make sense that the same could happen with adrenal fatigue. If someone isn't helped by treatment, chances are that there is another underlying condition that isn't being addressed. There is so much that we still don't know when it comes to our bodies. However, what we do know is that popping a pill isn't always the answer.

Thanks, Lisa. I think it's worth getting another thyroid test (a complete thyroid panel, not just TSH) and see what it shows now.

Hi all,This subject matter is near and dear to my heart for several reasons:1) 6 months ago I was diagnosed with severe adrenal "fatigue" (adrenal indufficiency) in the final stage--- stage 7. The only stage~ of "adrenal fatigue" worse than stage 7 is death!2) due to having weak, struggling adrenals for years (it can take as long as 10-30 years for mere "adrenal fatigue" to worsen over time into adrenal insufficiency) it caused my thyroid to~ under perform. It gave me a somewhat underactive thyroid. (This is because loss of any major hormones in the body will weaken thyroid activity---whether it is loss of adrenal hormones or loss of sex hormones as with menopause.)I didn't know I had adrenal problems six months ago---but I had tried taking Armour thyroid at that time and felt much worse ! This happens to people with weakened adrenals---taking natural thyroid meds doesn't work---until you treat the adrenals first.It wasn't until I had a 24-hour saliva test that I realized that many of the awful symptoms I was having were due to severely low cortisol, aldosterone, and DHEA. That 24-hour saliva test was a life saver.

Let me shout it from the rooftops: Taking meds for adrenal insufficiency/fatigue DOES help! However, it takes a very long time for the adrenals to recover. ( Endocrinologists like Diana Schwarzbein and Dr. James L. Wilson---who wrote the book "Adrenal Fatigue---The 21st Century Stress Syndrome" say it can take as much as 3 years to recover)But usually they do recover. Usually it is~ in cases of Addison's Disease and other autoimmune adrenal diseases or rare types of absolute adrenal failure is there no recovery; one would be on meds for the rest of one's life.When you have thyroid testing, you should also test for Free T3 (FT3) and free T4 (FT4). My TSH was lower than 1.5 and yet I was still hypothyroid. TSH is not the best indicator of thyroid function but more of an indicator of whether or not your pituitary is putting out much or little Thyroid Stimulating Hormone.It is a good idea to also have blood tests for both kinds of thyroid antibodies to see if indeed one has Hashi's or Graves. Include in the thyroid testing the RT3 test. Some people convert their FT3 into an unusable form called RT3 so it is good to test for RT3.

Best wishes for your good health!

NRG4ME, thanks for your response. What types of supplements have you found helpful?

Hi Judyjudy and awriter,
For awriter, if you google "Mary Shomon" + "Top docs" it will take you to the part of her website that lists doctors in the USA (state by state) who treat hypothyroid and adrenal disease---by really listening to their patients and treating us like intelligent people who know our symptoms truly need to be addressed! I found my naturopath doctor on that website. Good luck, I hope you find a good doc who will listen and treat you with respect!

Judyjudy, I take a good quality multi-vitamin/mineral daily pac (I use the one from QVC called "Nature's Code".) Also, since thyroid and adrenal issues usually cause reduced digestive enzymes, I like to take Betaine-hydorchloric acid (my favorite brand is Twin Labs---can be found in many health food stores and online); also if you can take extra vitamin C and extra Co-Q10, even better. Also, probiotics (acidophilus etc.) are essential. I have read great things about using coconut oil---I like to cook with it. If you would like more info---Ray Peat has some interesting articles about it. I understand that the herb cilantro is great for the endocrine system---I like it in salads and Mexican food.