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  #16   ^
Old Tue, Apr-23-19, 06:08
DaisyDawn's Avatar
DaisyDawn DaisyDawn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 363
 
Plan: Higher P/Moderate F + C
Stats: 152/146.6/130 Female 66
BF:
Progress: 25%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
What Grav and Jean wrote. Learn the difference between observational and experimental studies here: https://www.dietdoctor.com/observat...imental-studies

But before you worry about studies, you should probably think about Why you decided to go Low Carb. Your intro said you wanted to knock off a few pesky winter pounds, and you did that in a few days of healthier eating. You note a few minor health issues that might be improved by eliminating grains. This is a good article to read with the first question to answer before you proceed:

https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb...b-right-for-you


I was thinking about that yesterday actually, why am I even here I've been successfully maintaining a large weight loss, by calorie tracking/counting and then some IF here and there, and everything was going good-up until a few months ago, when my weight started creeping up even while being pretty mindful of calories. And then the bloat, which is a newer issue.

So, I'm here on a whim, having never looked into or done anything focused on lower carb. But, if what I have been doing isn't working anymore, then I need to find something new that does. I've spent so much time reading about the supposed benefits of a plant focused diet though, that I feel like I'm doing something 'wrong' if I cut back on grains, beans, fruit etc. I need to really spend some time reading through the benefits of lower carb, so I better understand what this is all about. I'm also going to intentionally stop reading articles/studies etc about plant focused ways of eating, for now. I just need to clear my head from all of that.

Sorry, this thread went in a different direction than I had planned lol. Maybe it should be moved to the newbie question area?

eta: more specifically how did I get here-I was actually reading an article about plant based keto, which got me looking into keto some more, which then got me to the Atkins site, and then some more googling got me to this message board, which seemed to be pretty active so I joined

Last edited by DaisyDawn : Tue, Apr-23-19 at 06:18.
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  #17   ^
Old Tue, Apr-23-19, 06:45
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,431
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Depending how much you want to get into the studies, this article on the Science of LC is good, or can watch the videos linked here. https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/science

What changed my mind is the Gary Taubes book Good Calories, Bad Calories, or newer and shorter/easier, Why We Get Fat. I was following an almost vegetarian anti -cancer diet as a survivor, so it took some months of research, but then went low carb and never regretted it.
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  #18   ^
Old Tue, Apr-23-19, 06:52
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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Quote:
U.S. diets high in sodium are responsible for 33 deaths per 100,000 in the U.S., according to a new scientific study on the health effects of diet.


So if we start with 100 000 people, feed them all a high sodium diet, in 3000 years, they'll all be dead? Of course I'm being glib, and these numbers do matter--if 33 in 100 000 were dying from polio, and we knew it, and knew how to prevent it, which we do, of course these numbers would matter.

Speaking to the main thing sodium is accused of, where there's the most evidence, though faulty--personally, switching to mostly animal-based foods, sparing not the salt shaker, my blood pressure went from borderline hypertension in my mid-30s, 140/90 and probably climbing, given my family history, to usually "ideal"--around 100-110/65-70, most times I've measured, over the last 15 years.

Of course a personal anecdote doesn't do it here--but it's not just a personal anecdote, it's a fairly common one, and a common clinical observation from medical professionals like Dr. Westman.

Also--even if you can't go from N=1 personal experience to populations, you also can't go the other way. That is, you can't ignore individual results. You can't cure scurvy by feeding lemons to people who don't have scurvy, although you might make it less prevalent in a population by making lemons more popular. Especially a population that's heavy in pre-modern day sailors and what not.

And in that vein, what a low carb or ketogenic diet has apparently helped me with

--high blood pressure
--various joint and muscle chronic pain. I used to have to sleep only flat on my back, stomach or sides was too uncomfortable. Used to wake up with a painful, frozen neck, couldn't turn my head even.
--used to have sort of "panic" attacks, around the same time each day. For a while they were in the early morning, later they changed to around 1 am, ruining my sleep. i'd wake up in sort of an altered stated, sort of numb and clammy, and slightly panicky, I'd have to sort of pace back and forth in my room because of the anxious energy, until things calmed down. Then there'd be a moment when things sort of came back "online," that numbness would be reversed, little nagging pains that I wouldn't normally be aware of were accentuated--but everything was, even just normal non-painful tactile sensation were stronger from having been off for a bit. That went away with low carb, I'd been having those things since my mid-20's (around the time the more schizophrenic symptoms from my schizoaffective bipolar started ramping up) so they lasted a good ten years.
--speaking of which, when I went to a more ketogenic version of the diet, a bit stricter than Atkins when it comes to both carbs and protein, I stopped hearing voices. Lately I've noticed that strict adherence to the higher fat version keeps me from being paranoid, depressed, and anxious. For a couple months in the winter, I was sort of rapid-cycling, turned out I just needed to be stricter. What happens to 33 out of 100 000 or even 1 out of 10 if you could find a study showing that doesn't really matter to me as an individual. Knock on wood, because I've only recently discovered how effective more strict compliance is versus anxiety, but I seem to be able to pretty much turn it on and off with dietary manipulation.
--weight loss does matter, and has been my experience. The more ketogenic version of the diet has been better for maintenance for me, preventing outrageous binges that occur once I'm at a lower weight, on a higher protein version of low carb. But the higher protein version worked very well versus binges while losing the first 20 pounds, binges didn't re-appear until I dieted down another ten to fifteen pounds with a bit of higher protein, lower fat calorie restriction.
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  #19   ^
Old Tue, Apr-23-19, 06:56
DaisyDawn's Avatar
DaisyDawn DaisyDawn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 363
 
Plan: Higher P/Moderate F + C
Stats: 152/146.6/130 Female 66
BF:
Progress: 25%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Depending how much you want to get into the studies, this article on the Science of LC is good, or can watch the videos linked here. https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/science

What changed my mind is the Gary Taubes book Good Calories, Bad Calories, or newer and shorter/easier, Why We Get Fat. I was following an almost vegetarian anti -cancer diet as a survivor, so it took some months of research, but then went low carb and never regretted it.


I'll look at the link and check my library for the books-this morning I'm picking up 3 low carb books that I have on hold that came in, and I have a couple more on hold yet
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  #20   ^
Old Tue, Apr-23-19, 06:59
DaisyDawn's Avatar
DaisyDawn DaisyDawn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 363
 
Plan: Higher P/Moderate F + C
Stats: 152/146.6/130 Female 66
BF:
Progress: 25%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
So if we start with 100 000 people, feed them all a high sodium diet, in 3000 years, they'll all be dead? Of course I'm being glib, and these numbers do matter--if 33 in 100 000 were dying from polio, and we knew it, and knew how to prevent it, which we do, of course these numbers would matter.

Speaking to the main thing sodium is accused of, where there's the most evidence, though faulty--personally, switching to mostly animal-based foods, sparing not the salt shaker, my blood pressure went from borderline hypertension in my mid-30s, 140/90 and probably climbing, given my family history, to usually "ideal"--around 100-110/65-70, most times I've measured, over the last 15 years.

Of course a personal anecdote doesn't do it here--but it's not just a personal anecdote, it's a fairly common one, and a common clinical observation from medical professionals like Dr. Westman.

Also--even if you can't go from N=1 personal experience to populations, you also can't go the other way. That is, you can't ignore individual results. You can't cure scurvy by feeding lemons to people who don't have scurvy, although you might make it less prevalent in a population by making lemons more popular. Especially a population that's heavy in pre-modern day sailors and what not.

And in that vein, what a low carb or ketogenic diet has apparently helped me with

--high blood pressure
--various joint and muscle chronic pain. I used to have to sleep only flat on my back, stomach or sides was too uncomfortable. Used to wake up with a painful, frozen neck, couldn't turn my head even.
--used to have sort of "panic" attacks, around the same time each day. For a while they were in the early morning, later they changed to around 1 am, ruining my sleep. i'd wake up in sort of an altered stated, sort of numb and clammy, and slightly panicky, I'd have to sort of pace back and forth in my room because of the anxious energy, until things calmed down. Then there'd be a moment when things sort of came back "online," that numbness would be reversed, little nagging pains that I wouldn't normally be aware of were accentuated--but everything was, even just normal non-painful tactile sensation were stronger from having been off for a bit. That went away with low carb, I'd been having those things since my mid-20's (around the time the more schizophrenic symptoms from my schizoaffective bipolar started ramping up) so they lasted a good ten years.
--speaking of which, when I went to a more ketogenic version of the diet, a bit stricter than Atkins when it comes to both carbs and protein, I stopped hearing voices. Lately I've noticed that strict adherence to the higher fat version keeps me from being paranoid, depressed, and anxious. For a couple months in the winter, I was sort of rapid-cycling, turned out I just needed to be stricter. What happens to 33 out of 100 000 or even 1 out of 10 if you could find a study showing that doesn't really matter to me as an individual. Knock on wood, because I've only recently discovered how effective more strict compliance is versus anxiety, but I seem to be able to pretty much turn it on and off with dietary manipulation.
--weight loss does matter, and has been my experience. The more ketogenic version of the diet has been better for maintenance for me, preventing outrageous binges that occur once I'm at a lower weight, on a higher protein version of low carb. But the higher protein version worked very well versus binges while losing the first 20 pounds, binges didn't re-appear until I dieted down another ten to fifteen pounds with a bit of higher protein, lower fat calorie restriction.


Thank you for sharing, I don't know anyone in 'real life' who's doing low carb (that I know of), so it's good to hear from others the benefits they've seen with low carb/keto!
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  #21   ^
Old Tue, Apr-23-19, 07:26
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,431
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

Quote:
I'll look at the link and check my library for the books-this morning I'm picking up 3 low carb books that I have on hold that came in, and I have a couple more on hold yet


Great!

Here is a thread on Low Carb books, post #5 has my full list, but anything by Taubes (GC, BC is heavy lifting) and Nina Teicholz's Big, Fat Surprise. still at top of my list. https://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=480468

What that list from the LC clinic FB page is missing is The Primal Blueprint by Mark Sisson and The Paleo Solution by Robb Wolf. https://robbwolf.com/what-is-the-paleo-diet/

I also read the Paleo and Primal books available in 2010 before I went low carb... it is a good half way stop between vegetarian and LC lifestyles. Sub-forum on Paleo: https://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=466791 Ignore all the products now sold on Mark's Daily Apple website...it is the largest, oldest, best resource for anything primal/paleo.
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  #22   ^
Old Tue, Apr-23-19, 08:37
DaisyDawn's Avatar
DaisyDawn DaisyDawn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 363
 
Plan: Higher P/Moderate F + C
Stats: 152/146.6/130 Female 66
BF:
Progress: 25%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Great!

Here is a thread on Low Carb books, post #5 has my full list, but anything by Taubes (GC, BC is heavy lifting) and Nina Teicholz's Big, Fat Surprise. still at top of my list. https://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=480468

What that list from the LC clinic FB page is missing is The Primal Blueprint by Mark Sisson and The Paleo Solution by Robb Wolf. https://robbwolf.com/what-is-the-paleo-diet/

I also read the Paleo and Primal books available in 2010 before I went low carb... it is a good half way stop between vegetarian and LC lifestyles. Sub-forum on Paleo: https://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=466791 Ignore all the products now sold on Mark's Daily Apple website...it is the largest, oldest, best resource for anything primal/paleo.


Thank you!

eta: followed a link to the New Primal Blueprint book, from there I ended up on the authors 'food pyramid' and LOVE that its base is veggies (even with my open mindedness towards lower carb changes, I have very strong feelings that veggies need to be a staple of my diet ). I'm going to see if I can get the book from my library, I've never really looked into the primal diet.

Last edited by DaisyDawn : Tue, Apr-23-19 at 08:43.
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