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  #106   ^
Old Fri, Sep-23-05, 17:11
Malishka31 Malishka31 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 722
 
Plan: General LC
Stats: 318/213.2/185 Female 5ft 6.5
BF:
Progress: 79%
Location: New York
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hey!

i am cheking in , so i am 16 pounds down!
its been 4 weeks, ... well almost 4.
i have 8 weeks and 3 days left.
i need to loose 2.93 pounds per week to reach my goal.
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  #107   ^
Old Mon, Apr-17-06, 05:05
Davideb Davideb is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 35
 
Plan: high fat BFL
Stats: 170/170/170 Male 1.80
BF:
Progress:
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I would like to tweak the BFL plan.
I'm not interested on lowering carbs per se but on raising fats.
The BFL plan is too low fat to me and I believe that the nutritional quality of the fats eschewed in the BFL plan are actually very important healthwise
High fat fish is nutritionally better than low fat fish, whole eggs are nutritional better than egg whites, whole milk, yogurt and whole cottage cheeses are nutritionally better than low fat dairy food and so is butter.

But since Phillips have developed BFL putting together what is known to work better and faster I wonder how much BFL can be tweaked before compromising the great results the program followed to T gives.

That's my dilemma: if you raise the fat content of your diet you must decrease the carbohydrate content of your diet since protein of course should remain untouched.

But there are many evidences that carbohydrates are the preferred fuel for hard physical activity and losing fat while keeping muscle mass (especially with carb cycling) Both ketosis and lyposis are not fast and as much efficient pathways of energy supplies for physical activity, and there must be a reason if carb cycling supporters and high carb detractors like Venuto couldn't keep their mass and lost strenght, speed and concentration while on a very low carb diet for a sustained amount of time (months)

Also, I know people who eat nothing but meat and eggs and no carbs or 10 grams of carbs and are overweight and unfit. Because while fat is neutral to insulin proteins are not. Actually proteins raise insulin levels more than carbohydrates. For example eating beef raises fat storage insulin levels more than refined rice. Holt SA et al Am J Clin Nutr 1997;66:1264-76

Besides the most important factor of BFL (meal frequency) is known to mimic the effect of a low glycemic index and low insulin diet even if the carb intake is not very low. So while protein will keep forcing the body to release massive amount of insulin to store fat eating small and frequent meals (6 to 9) seems to be the only metabolic way to decrease insulin levels, post-prandial lipemia and post-prandial glycemia in spite of carb content.
Am J Clin Nutr 1970;23:1059-68/ N Engl J Med 1989;321:929-34/
Am J Clin Nutr 1993;57:446-51/
Am J Clin Nutr 1992;55:664-9/ Int J Obesity 1998;22:105-12/

Bottom line I know BFL works perfectly even if the amount of carb is moderate because of the above reasons, but I know that with the fat missing in BFL many important nutritional qualities are missed as well.

But I also know that raising the fat content will mean lowering the carb content while evidences suggest that for an active life style combined with hard strenous physical activity getting energy from carbs is better as they have a protein sparing effect and present metabolic advantages in glycogen replenishment. On the other hand ketones and fatty acids are not a reliable and a fast source of energy and muscular movements are highly decreased when the body must "wait" the lyposis and ketosis pathway to get energy.

What's a good compromise between higher fat intake for nutritional qualities and adequate carb intake not to compromise the advantage of getting most of the muscular energy from carbs?
Would getting all the calories you need for physical activities from carbs and all the calories you need for BMR from protein and fat make sense?

Thanks
D.
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  #108   ^
Old Tue, Apr-18-06, 15:26
sunshine2 sunshine2 is offline
OSU Cowboy Fan
Posts: 3,384
 
Plan: Lapband/low carb
Stats: 248/169/145 Female 5'6"
BF:42/29/25
Progress: 77%
Location: OKlahoma USA
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D - the person who started this thread was an expert on the subject, and I know she upped her fat and kept her carbs around 50, she completed 6 challenges I believe. Anyhow, she doesn't belong to the forum any longer.

I just started BFL on the 10th and completed my first week on day 9 now. I'm keeping my carbs around 30 - 40, my fat at about 30% of calories. I'm cutting back on some of the fat, but not all. I am grilling chicken, but might have some real mayo etc with it.

Sorry I can't answer your question, but I think having some fat worked for some.

Are you doing the program? If so, is this your first Challenge?
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  #109   ^
Old Wed, Apr-19-06, 07:04
Davideb Davideb is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 35
 
Plan: high fat BFL
Stats: 170/170/170 Male 1.80
BF:
Progress:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunshine2
D - the person who started this thread was an expert on the subject, and I know she upped her fat and kept her carbs around 50, she completed 6 challenges I believe. Anyhow, she doesn't belong to the forum any longer.

I just started BFL on the 10th and completed my first week on day 9 now. I'm keeping my carbs around 30 - 40, my fat at about 30% of calories. I'm cutting back on some of the fat, but not all. I am grilling chicken, but might have some real mayo etc with it.

Sorry I can't answer your question, but I think having some fat worked for some.

Are you doing the program? If so, is this your first Challenge?


Thanks for your reply.
I would like to know whether the physiological reasons why a moderate/low carb diet is better than a very low carb diet for the BFL are supported by proven physiological facts and evidences.
If I remember right even Lyle Mcdonald said that 20/40 grams of carbs "may" not be enough to sustain streneous weight lifting activity without feeling letargic, tired, weak, spacey or passing out.

I'm actually asking from a "perfect results" point of view. In other words I know that almost all kinds of plan work and sustain our body but there are certain macro nutrients ratio, food ratio or calories cycling that are known to be the best choice for a specific goal we strive for. For example to have a dry look and maximum definition a very low carb diet is obligatory and almost all fitness athletes or bodybuilders get ready for the contest with some kind of low carb diet. To maximize the increment of lean body mass out of contest season an higher carb diet is almost necessary.

I asked this question for a friend of mine who is a low carber and doesn't know english and want to enter the BFL challenge. I've been following a paleodiet for the last 5 months and I think it is healthy (when enough veggies/fruits are consumed) but probably it's not the best plan to sculp your body and as a matter of fact I've never see a paleo eater who is very lean and fit. I'm even afraid that the paleodiet could have decreased my lean body mass and increased my fat mass. My friend convinced me to do the challenge with him and improve my body, strength and resistance.

How do you feel when you lift weights? Do you feel full of energy for all the 40/50 minutes or feel a bit tired somewhere along your workout? That's what worries me, that to get energy from fat and protein instead of carbohydrate may slow down muscle movement and decrease strenght and prevent the high points. Besides the importance of consuming high carbohydrates foods and protein and very few grams of fat after workout is well documented.

We can stay in touch and share our results along the challenge if you want

D.

Last edited by Davideb : Wed, Apr-19-06 at 07:12.
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  #110   ^
Old Wed, Apr-19-06, 07:29
sunshine2 sunshine2 is offline
OSU Cowboy Fan
Posts: 3,384
 
Plan: Lapband/low carb
Stats: 248/169/145 Female 5'6"
BF:42/29/25
Progress: 77%
Location: OKlahoma USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davideb
Thanks for your reply.
How do you feel when you lift weights? Do you feel full of energy for all the 40/50 minutes or feel a bit tired somewhere along your workout? That's what worries me, that to get energy from fat and protein instead of carbohydrate may slow down muscle movement and decrease strenght and prevent the high points. Besides the importance of consuming high carbohydrates foods and protein and very few grams of fat after workout is well documented.

We can stay in touch and share our results along the challenge if you want

D.


D - in the beginning, I was feeling a bit sluggish, however, I was just eating M&E (meat & eggs), so I gradually added in some carbs, 5 g per day, and now I'm up to 39 carbs, with it being about 7 grams of fiber, around 32 Net carbs. I feel pretty good during my workouts, my goal is to work until complete exhaustion or hitting the "high point" in the BFL plan. The only area I'm seeing a problem is around 5:00 or so every afternoon, I'm wiped out. It might be because I'm getting up at 4:30 am and am usually at the gym by 5:30 - and I'm not getting in bed until around 11:00 or so at night. So my fatigue could be my lack of sleep. This is an area I'm trying to work on - getting more sleep.
My protein has been about 180 - 200 g per day, so I think I'm getting enough protein, but I'm still not sure about carbs. I'm still tweaking the program a bit, but I just cant go to eating a potatoe or rice as the program suggest. I've gained most of my carbs thru the protein drink I drink, the Betagen drink from EAS, and fresh spinach and sometimes 1/2 piece of fruit mixed in my protein drink. I also do some LC Yogurt/cottage cheese. My weight has been coming off slow, however, the inches are melting off. I actually am probably going to have a gain this week, but I have shrunk in inches so I'm still happy with the BFL program.
I have a friend who just completed the program, and she really looked awesome. She is doing her 2nd challenge now. Here is the link to her pics from challenge #1.
http://www.bodyforlife-tracker.com/...os.cfm?id=15910 - The bodyforlife tracker is a great tool too. However, they cringe at the thought of LC - so I don't post over there much. Another great link regarding LC and BFL is http://www.hussmanfitness.org/html/...Life.html#tweak He talks about Porter Freeman limited his carbs on meal 2 & 4. His site is very interesting and this doc has personally done the program.
When do you think you are going to start the program? I would love to share the results and findings - you might start a journal under the bootcamp section.
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  #111   ^
Old Wed, Apr-19-06, 11:29
Davideb Davideb is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 35
 
Plan: high fat BFL
Stats: 170/170/170 Male 1.80
BF:
Progress:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunshine2
D - in the beginning, I was feeling a bit sluggish, however, I was just eating M&E (meat & eggs), so I gradually added in some carbs, 5 g per day, and now I'm up to 39 carbs, with it being about 7 grams of fiber, around 32 Net carbs. I feel pretty good during my workouts, my goal is to work until complete exhaustion or hitting the "high point" in the BFL plan. The only area I'm seeing a problem is around 5:00 or so every afternoon, I'm wiped out. It might be because I'm getting up at 4:30 am and am usually at the gym by 5:30 - and I'm not getting in bed until around 11:00 or so at night. So my fatigue could be my lack of sleep. This is an area I'm trying to work on - getting more sleep.
My protein has been about 180 - 200 g per day, so I think I'm getting enough protein, but I'm still not sure about carbs. I'm still tweaking the program a bit, but I just cant go to eating a potatoe or rice as the program suggest.


Indeed meat and eggs is not probably the best diet to sustain strenuous physical activity and convert fat mass to lean mass.
Are you drinking lot of water? You intake of protein is very high and dehydration could be part of the reason why you feel tired at 5:00.
You're probably right that your 5 hours of sleep per night are another reasons. Most of muscle growth/repair and fat burning happens while we sleep and it's not uncommon for weight lifting newbys to suddenly need 8-9 hours of sleep and feel like on a hangover with less.
As for the water intake I wouldn't listen to thirst, which has become a very wicked instinct in our modern world somehow, and would increase my intake of water nonetheless after all water is probably the most important muscle building and fat burning substance out there. A documented guideline for someone following a strenous physical routine is 1.0-1.5 ml per kg consumed.
That would equate to 65 to 100 ounces if you consume calories.
If you can work on the water and sleep factor you could know whether it's not enough carbs that is causing your fatigue. I would like to know as it would help me to tweak the program.

Other tweaks to the program I will make are:
consuming more carbs during the day consuming less carb during the evening and 0 carbs in my last meal
consuming way more carbs in the postworkout meals
taking two teaspoons of coconut oil daily
using my free day to refill with carbs and restore muscular glycogen


Quote:
I've gained most of my carbs thru the protein drink I drink, the Betagen drink from EAS, and fresh spinach and sometimes 1/2 piece of fruit mixed in my protein drink. I also do some LC Yogurt/cottage cheese. My weight has been coming off slow, however, the inches are melting off. I actually am probably going to have a gain this week, but I have shrunk in inches so I'm still happy with the BFL program.
I have a friend who just completed the program, and she really looked awesome. She is doing her 2nd challenge now. Here is the link to her pics from challenge #1.
http://www.bodyforlife-tracker.com/...os.cfm?id=15910 - The bodyforlife tracker is a great tool too. However, they cringe at the thought of LC - so I don't post over there much. Another great link regarding LC and BFL is http://www.hussmanfitness.org/html/...Life.html#tweak He talks about Porter Freeman limited his carbs on meal 2 & 4. His site is very interesting and this doc has personally done the program.
When do you think you are going to start the program? I would love to share the results and findings - you might start a journal under the bootcamp section.


You're right. Your friend transformation is wonderful!
Thanks for the interesting links, I will probably begin the program monday the next week and will plan my food and exercises and ratios these last 4 days

D.
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  #112   ^
Old Wed, Apr-19-06, 11:56
sunshine2 sunshine2 is offline
OSU Cowboy Fan
Posts: 3,384
 
Plan: Lapband/low carb
Stats: 248/169/145 Female 5'6"
BF:42/29/25
Progress: 77%
Location: OKlahoma USA
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D - well, I know water is not the problem, I drink 128 oz of water daily (gallon and sometimes more). I got a full 8 hours of sleep last night and didn't go do my workout this morning, however I did it on my 2 hour lunch break and I feel absolutely wonderful today. I even increased my weights this time, and feel like I had the best workout ever. So I'm leaning toward the sleep being deprived as the reason for me being sluggish.
I think that is an excellent idea about your last meal being -0- carbs. I've been trying to do that myself. I'm very anxious to get to week 4 and I will take my measurements and see the progress.
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