There are five variations of the classic ketogenic diet, each of which has been defined in clinical Studies, but few people are actually eating those. https://charliefoundation.org/
The do your own thing has become so common that in the Westman Support group we have a "keyword alert" on "strict keto". Often when the member is asked what they mean by that...at least one of these lies comes up...mostly the adding more fat to burn fat with fat bombs, adding fat after dinner to meet their macros, etc. Something you may have to do for a classic epilepsy diet, but not when 100 pounds overweight.

Yes. I actually do have to lean heavily on heavy cream, 'hiding' fat in scrambled eggs etc. to maintain my weight and still get the apparent mood benefits I get from a stricter ketogenic diet.

Restricting protein--I'll say, that's not a lie, if somebody's got a genuine reason to be in it for the ketones. I also think it's an open question how much protein is best, and probably fairly individual.

Sometimes Atkins is called a fad, keto too. Some sort of low carb diet being in vogue since I started this, pretty continuously, the names just keep changing. What we call the diet is more of a fad than the diet itself. Sometimes I see people who are "keto" in fitness circles asked the difference from Atkins--and by the time you say, don't restrict protein, don't worry about getting ketones all that high etc.--the answer is, there isn't really one. One answer I saw was that keto was for young fit guys, and Atkins was for old fat people. Far as I could tell it wasn't tongue in cheek...

Having taken Marty Kendall's nutrient optimizer masterclass several times and feeling like I have really dialed in my nutrient intake I have decided to now pay more attention to my bg readings and how they relate to hunger. I have never been able to use hunger and/or fullness as a way to determine when to eat and when not to eat. I have used portion control and meal timing instead. I signed up for Marty Kendal's Data Driven Challenge to try to get a better handle on my hunger and how it relates to blood sugar. The challenge starts Saturday.

That's great, Jean. I will be going along with you using the program on my own. As another long time very low carb eater, I will be interested if you have "flat-line" but modestly elevated BG. Most readings were 100-110. My BG barely budged over the Challenge period, with first a Personal trigger of 98, then in last week 96. The range is so narrow, it seems unlikely much happened beyond the variations in meter readings. The good news was I lost 13 pounds in about 2 months, but that could be my own focusing on more nutrient dense foods, more vegetables, Less fats, no wine, almond butter, and other P:E diet guidelines.

My pattern, before beginning the actual challenge, is that I start out "normal" in the morning but as soon as I eat anything, even with the carbs very low, I go from the 80's to the low 100's and then it takes a very long time for my bg to get back to the 80's again if it even get's there at all before the next day. Sometimes I stay stuck in the low 100's. I'll see what I learn from doing the challenge. At some point I just kind of accepted that my bg would remain somewhat higher than I like throughout the day. I have certainly not been timing my eating to correspond to my bg dropping back down. I am not trying to lose any weight. I accomplished all the weight loss I wanted in the masterclasses.

Happy DDF start day. Watching my BG come down is like watching paint dry. I started a bit high because had a higher carb meal last night knowing going into a month of being strict and wanting to redo baseline trigger. Numbers over 100 are still a surprise since my annual BG lab test is 80-90s and fasting insulin around 5 or lower.

6:00 am 114
9:00 am 110
11:00 am 102
12:00 am 94
4 strips just to eat

Me too. Like watching paint dry, usually. I start out under 90 usually so I can eat breakfast but then drop slowly. The slow drop makes 2 meals a day a necessity rather than a choice if I want to use my bg as a guide to eating. Also because I drop very slowly from my second meal, early to mid afternoon, it also ensures that I don’t succumb to evening snacking, something I gave up several years ago in any event. I think this careful tracking is going to teach me a lot about hunger.

6:00 am 114
9:00 am 110
11:00 am 102
12:00 am 94
4 strips just to eat


Watching you two closely as you go through the challenge. I'm not one to measure constantly, but this looks like a good way to develop a baseline of awareness of when to eat due to needs rather than hunger sensations. I have a BG monitor, so I guess I'm ready equipment-wise. Something I'll consider in the near future, as I'm not looking to lose weight, but rather, maintain an eating lifestyle based on meal timing that is healthiest for me. For now, your posts are very informative. Thanks for sharing your experiences.

Rob, watching my numbers closely will be Really Boring..they barely move. This morning was the more typical 106 and getting it under 100 will be a struggle. That 160 page free DDF book posted a while back has other good information on meal timing...the meals and eating windows that seem to work best for the people whose data he followed, eg two meals rather than one or three+, earlier in the day rather later. Options not to test BG all day is to take only waking fasting BG, or only weight and decide foods and meal timing from that.

Today's Low Carb MD podcast was with the Canadian RD Joy Kiddie, and Marty and DDF certainly were discussed thoroughly. Starts minute 38. Dr Tro had strong opinions on its downsides, but in the end ...45 minutes later! agrees the benefit for some people. https://lowcarbmd.com/episode-141-dr-joy-kiddie

Thanks, Janet. I know this can be very boring, but it's useful information. I'm still trying to find that free DDF book. Where can I locate it?

Here it is: https://www.datadrivenfasting.com/book

It was in a link from his Blog at https://optimisingnutrition.com/blog/

This blog post is a good summary: https://optimisingnutrition.com/hun...-term-fat-loss/

Downloaded. Thanks, Janet.

This article has a round-up of all the different ways you can collect data to help manage weight and why Marty likes...

Why your blood sugar BEFORE you eat is the most important thing you can measure to lose fat and optimise your metabolic health

https://optimisingnutrition.com/why...tabolic-health/

Another DDF Challenge starts Nov 21. I’ve been working with the spreadsheet on my own, and took a pause for a while, but restarted working out a new baseline level Thursday. I have had additional weight loss so my trigger level will be lower, but still not consistently under 100. My first reaction to a Nov 21 start date was no way....Thanksgiving and pre-holiday. But the way Covid is taking off, there likely will be zero social events. Only our one daughter for Thanksgiving now.

When I had gestational diabetes, the morning test decided if a plate of green beans was breakfast. I was completely on my own as dietitian gave me a 300 g carb diet. Which I thru in trash and tried to follow DANDR without dropping weight. So green beans was often breakfast to reduce rise in blood sugars.



I too was hoping to see family for Thanksgiving. Been a year already since seeing my elderly mom. Next May will be next chance.

Janet, thank you for the link to the Charlie Foundation. I had never heard of it! What a wonderful organization and website. Thank you!