Can anyone believe whats going on here? Wooo, you are very mistaken in what you believe CRONers feel like. I said I do not do activities to the same extent, not back I can't hack it anymore, but just to stop myself from losing anymore weight. And besides, I do go to college all day then work most of the night. Walford said too that CR leads to increased energy, and he had been doing the research for decades. If you spoken to the majority of CRers they also report an increase in energy. Its not BS...



It's not just a perception, it is really increased energy. I gather you seen the study on activation of SIRT1 via resveratrol which increased mitochondria leading to increase endurance?

Who doesn't fear injuries? lol. I still skateboard to work every night though

Doesn't anyone believe me here when I say I have more energy (don't bother answering wooo). I DO NOT LIE. Forget what they look like, listen to what they say.

A few CRONers here:

aaron
http://spaz.ca/?p=183

"I am FAR healthier today than I was pre-CR. I’m not overweight, my blood pressure is out of the danger zone that it used to be in, and my doctor couldn’t believe how good my cholesterol levels were. I know I’m getting all my RDAs of vitamins and minerals. I have more energy and feel more vitality than I used to. I can hike up a mountain in half the time it used to take me, and not feel nearly as winded."

Mary
http://www.crdiary.blogspot.com/
I was really astounded and thought there must be some strange side affect of CRON that makes your muscles work much better.

Ever since, I have found that I am magically more fit, without working at it. I can hike 5 miles without feeling tired - even on trails that climb 1500 feet - and at high altitude. And I have always been a couch potato - and pretty non-athletic - so this is just really strange for me. (Matt - Yes check recent paper, CR induced SIRT1 makes muscles work better! and she posted this in 2004)



Andrea Feucht (video)
She is an endurance runner and discusses how CR helped her
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay...rie+Restriction

Paul interview (video)
Paul discussing how CR made him feel. (google Video)
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay...rie+Restriction

Meredith Averill interview (video)
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay...rie+Restriction

April (video)
Another CRONie on here CR here (video)
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay...9&q=April+Smith

Robert Seitz interview (video)

An older starting CRer, but helped eliminate his pre-cancerous condition and his arthritis. He also goes on about how young long term CRers look for their age.
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay...rie+Restriction

if you want the truth, please PLEASE WATCH and READ. This whole low energy/ CR is really a bunch of crap. Do not call me a liar, and do not call them a liar. Wooo, you have had a bad experience, too bad for you... but most CRONers experience is good! (FACT)

[QUOTE=Whoa182]Doesn't anyone believe me here when I say I have more energy (don't bother answering wooo).

YES --and this would be in line with Dr. Rosedale's belief that a body can run "cooler" but more efficiently.

Even the Drs Eades have been experimenting with CR and IF themselves. Why would they bother if the latest research wasn't so compelling?

Arthur Devany (excellent web site for you low-carb paleos: www.arthurdevany.com) has posted recently about IF and CR. While he favors IF over CR and doesn't believe in the same amount of calories day in and day out -- thinks this should vary -- he has posted that going hungry once in a while (ie skipping dinner a few times a week or skipping breakfast sometimes) IS a good thing. So whether one does IF or CR -- it's still less calories overall. His latest blog has a recent radio interview where he mentions he leaned out further and is feeling great AND that he requires less food. He has posted photos of his menus in the past and some have commented that it looks like he doesn't eat nearly enough -- well -- look at his terrific, muscular, lean physique. He's 69 and HOT!

I have read the essay by Luigi Cornaro which Whoa posted and highly recommend it. Cornaro's outlook and love of life are positively inspiring. He restricted his amount of food precisely because he wanted to extend his live -- a life he loved and which was productive throughout his nineties and beyond until his peaceful death (in his sleep) at the age of 102! The essay says nothing about "wanting to live forever" -- rather -- he was a deeply religious Christian man and believed in the Hereafter. But he was in no hurry to get there -- rather, he believed that man is capable of and should strive to live a normal lifespan which in his view was 100-120 years of age. He felt that what cut life unnaturally short was man's gluttonous ways -- and the fact that man erroneously fails to adjust his intake in accordance with the capabilities of his aging body. What is so controversial about thinking that we may possibly need less food as we age to conserve our body's resources? Less is more. This is not the same as suggesting starvation or nothing is more. Just -- less is more.

Yeah I read his blog often... He was at the last CR conference giving a talk on his regimen. He does look good for his age... still as far as I can tell hes not gone bald either lol.



Listening right this second to the audio



It is well written, and very inspiring to read. I suppose that not many here have read that text yet... ? It is quite amazing though because at the time there was no science to back up what he did, he done it and felt good, and not only that, his diet was very poor by todays experiments on CRON. So who knows how much longer he might have lived. It is well known that CR without the best nutrition extends average lifespan a bit, but not maximum. Then when the diet is supplemented very well the maximum gets extended substantially, in rodents of course.



Yeah, if you read studies on centenarians, most of the longest lived people usually die in their sleep or have significant compression of morbidity. Like in rodents, rather than suffering a long time before they die, they just keel over and die even though there is hardly anything wrong with them.

Reducing most peoples 'gluttonous ways' to a more normal calorie intake is nothing like the severe CR restriction Whoa and his high carb CR ilk practice. And both the Eades and Art Devany think IR is a great idea but not CR. In fact the Eades specifically referred to CRon as a pretty dumb way to extend lifespan, because body composition always suffers, and the early research indicates that IR is just as effective anyway.

IR is about maintaining calorie intake at normal levels. And besides, what's the point of confusing moderate calorie restriction with the emaciating levels of Whoa type CR? The only reason the Eades mention starvation CR at all is that they are aware (like most sensible people ) that it compromises body composition and makes you hungry perpetually.

Of course Art Devany looks 'hot', even at 69. He eats a very low carb diet with occasional moderate and very short term carb ups with moderate calorie intake, and does a lot of resistance exercise.

Nobody in their right mind would think Whoa looks 'hot'. I'm really sorry Whoa but it's a fact. You may 'feel' healthy and your doctor may tell you the same. But you certainly don't look it. It's pretty obvious why. You pathologically undereat. That's what your version of CRon is: pathological undereating.

Most of the women doing CR have carb intakes of under 100g, maybe around 60-100g a day.



No IF has not been proven at all to be effective in extending lifespan without reducing calories. Or are you refering to IF (which helps maintain weight) version of CR?


I am skinny, not emaciated. I have btw a small body frame (measured using wrist).



Well, I always get the "awww he's so cute"

Please read the entire Dr. Michael Eades 9/13/006 Blog re: CR & IF. In PART -- it reads:

"When researchers restrict the caloric intake of a group of lab animals to about 30 to 40 percent of that of their ad libitum (all they want to eat) fed counterparts, they find that the calorically restricted animals live 30 percent or so longer, don’t develop cancers, diabetes, heart disease, or obesity. These calorically restricted (CR) animals have low blood sugar levels, low insulin levels, good insulin sensitivity, low blood pressure and are, in general, much healthier than the ad lib fed animals.

Most of the work in caloric restriction has been done on rodents, but there is a long term study on Rhesus monkeys (17 years at this point) that appears to confirm the rodent data on longevity and health with CR in primates. There are no human longevity studies, but there are a number of human studies on CR and health that show that human subjects under CR conditions reduce blood sugar, improve insulin sensitivity, reduce blood pressure, etc., so it stands to reason that if humans reduced their caloric intake by 30-40 percent for their entire lives, they would also live longer.

Caloric restriction is a terrific way to lose weight and get healthy; problem is, it’s not much fun. When rats live out their little ratty lives calorically restricted in their cages they seem to show signs of depression and irritability. Primates do for sure. If primates don’t get enough cholesterol, they can actually become violent. But, if you’re willing to put up with a little irritability, hostility and depression, it might be worth cutting your calories by 30 percent for the rest of your long, healthy miserable life."

The rest of the blog entry discusses why he thinks IF is better and easier to implement in their view but they do NOT have direct experience with lots of patients willing to try CR for extended periods. Dr. Eades' words above show that his problem with CR is primarily that it isn't "fun" -- and that one MAY experience irritability, hostility or depression. I know plenty of gluttons (myself included) that experience those things on a daily basis ! Bottom line is -- not everyone will react the same -- so one could at least give it a try before condemning. Woo obviously had a bad experience -- ok -- I believe her and CR isn't for her. But that in no way invalidates Whoa's experiences. As for Whoa being emaciated -- here we go again. I don't think he looks any skinnier than the Asian men I worked with at a large company in NYC. But I am not a doctor -- HOWEVER, Whoa regularly sees his DOCTOR who tells him he is very healthy. Wouldn't his doctor tell him he's anorexic if in fact he was?????

I'm picturing elderly aunts patting you on the head.

Kay

Anything better to contribute?

Why don't you give us some info about you, your health and so on. What your view is, why it is that, and maybe you have some life saving information for me?

Come on, I want to know... let it out

It is becoming ever more clear that its you guys who have the disorted emotional issue on weight. I frankly to not give a CRAP about weight. I do not have no emotional issues over food and when my little stomach wants food it has food. These issues should be left out of this thread because It's boring and uninteresting. I never started CRON to deal with weight issues, I started it for life extension. I am still here to share knowledge... Wise up kids, you're being terribly ignorant.

I am discussing CRON science, not who looks the skinniest or fattest. I'm going to continue to discuss CRON, but any more about weight, emaciation, I cannot be A***. It's your problem, not mine, get over it already and move on! Many it seems still have horrible issues with weight, hope you get over it someday and get out of your downright miserable state. I'm getting the impression that you hate life or something... its saddening. Be optimstic, happy, cheerful, all the good things.

SMILE!

I guess we just don't understand WHY you are spending so much time and effort discussing CRON on a low carb message board.

Calling us "terribly ignorant" tends to make us laugh, becuase it seems that it is you who is "terribly ignorant" about low carbing.

And yes of course we have "issues" about food - that's why we are here! The vast majority of us are, or have been, overweight, and have chosen low carbing as a healthy way to lose that weight. That's why we are here. I am not at all sure why you are.

Rosebud

You've edited this bit in:

So I'll just comment on that too. Who is in a "downright miserable state?" Just because we don't always agree with you does not mean we are miserable.
In fact, most of us are downright happy because discovering low carb has enabled us to regain our health, as well as gain control over our eating.

Rosebud

It really isn't much effort... I am very good at multitasking.

And I've already said so many times over that I think low carbing is far healthier than high carb. But as it stands it is still a moot point when it comes to induced LE by CR. If this isn't true, show me!

And I'm not the only person here that discusses or starts up threads on CR, infact, I hardly ever initiate them.

Honeychile, I've been keeping a journal here for YEARS documenting my weight and food intake. Feel free to check it out.

And if you have a couple of weeks to read my journal, you will find that is spite of watching my father and husband die in the past two years, I do not dwell on what you refer to as my "miserable state".

I have to think that, at your age, you have not a clue about what life may bring. Or how long anyone might want to prolong it. Yes, I know you think you are very mature for your age. I'm tempted to invoke a whole bunch of laughing smilies here, but I do have my principles.

And it seems you have a number of CRON websites to play with. Why keep bugging us?

Kay

There you have it -- 60- 100 grams of carb per day is absolutely in line with many low-carb programs. Wolfgang Lutz for example advocates 72 grams per day with a gradual lowering IF DESIRED. Barry Groves uses the "around 50 grams" figure. Low-carbers know that there are plenty of other plans that would consider 60-100 grams acceptable -- especially for maintenance. CR and Low Carb are NOT incompatible, and in fact, CR in conjunction with a low-carb plan of choice could possibly help those who are stalling or not reaching other non-weight related health goals. My interests in CR have more to do with maximizing health and longevity than with weight control -- although at my very short height, leaner feels much better to my middle-aged knees and back!