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  #1   ^
Old Sat, Jun-15-19, 08:15
ireactions ireactions is offline
New Member
Posts: 7
 
Plan: Keto w.Bulletproof Coffee
Stats: 205/188/145 Male 5'8
BF:25.1
Progress: 28%
Default Ideal Calorie Deficit? (Sorry)

I know Atkins says to count carbs and not worry about calories. However, I confess that I am someone who will eat even after feeling full. It's a bad habit created by years on the blood sugar rollercoaster. Even after switching to only meat and vegetables that I cook myself, I find myself eating chicken wings even after I should be full -- I can't seem to distinguish between mental and physical hunger. If I waited to feel satisfied to stop eating, I'd never feel satisfied, at least not for now.

I have taken to weighing my food on a little scale and using that to count my calories to make sure that even when staying below 20 grams of carbohydrate per day, I'm also creating a 33 per cent daily calorie deficit. I'm wondering if anyone else counts calories and what you've found to be an effective deficit for ongoing weight loss?
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  #2   ^
Old Sat, Jun-15-19, 08:42
sjcchoops sjcchoops is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 35
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 395.9/276.7/250 Male 5’10
BF:
Progress: 82%
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I use the MyFitnessPal app and keeps me in check. I also eat late, slot of times out of boredom if something good is on tv. I now eat 4oz of cheese for my snack as we are on 20 carb limit of Induction phase.
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  #3   ^
Old Sat, Jun-15-19, 10:04
bluesinger's Avatar
bluesinger bluesinger is offline
Posts: 4,213
 
Plan: Atkins 72~Induction
Stats: 170/140/140 Female 62 inches
BF:24%
Progress: 100%
Location: Nevada Desert, USA
Default

We are all trying to find what keeps us healthy and find a Plan we can stick to. My answer to that is to study the Science of what is going on inside my body that makes me store fat instead of burning it.

Dr. Jason Fung explains the Science in ways I can understand, and this is what he has to say about CICO.
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  #4   ^
Old Sat, Jun-15-19, 10:19
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is online now
Posts: 4,581
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/128/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 106%
Location: Vermont
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I don't count calories but I do practice portion control because I also do not have a reliable "I'm full" signal. I weigh and measure everything. I also don't snack and have an absolute rule not to eat anything after 6PM. Usually I don't eat anything after mid afternoon except perhaps for a cup of broth. The calorie deficit idea is not a good one to base your eating on because the body does not treat all calories the same. Just try to figure out what seems like a reasonable amount of food to eat and stick with it. It takes discipline and commitment but eventually it becomes habit or at least it has for me.
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  #5   ^
Old Sat, Jun-15-19, 12:11
CityGirl8 CityGirl8 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 856
 
Plan: Protein Power, IF
Stats: 238/204/145 Female 5'8"
BF:53.75%/46.6%/25%
Progress: 37%
Location: PNW
Default

Most of the anti-CICO arguments assume that you're eating a carb-heavy diet. Sure, simply restricting calories isn't a good plan because your body does not treat all calories the same. But it doesn't sound like that's what you're doing at all. There are plenty of people who need to find ways to control what they eat beyond just restricting carbs in order to achieve their goals, especially weight loss goals.

First, you don't say how long you've been eating low carb. If you're still within the first month, don't worry about eating everything in sight. Go ahead and eat more. It's a good way to counter act the carb cravings and those big portions and extra calories are a good way to send your body a clear message that it's going to be getting lots of healthy food from here on out. Many people find that their appetite naturally diminishes after the first several weeks.

But not everyone. I'm one of those people. What I've found useful is to track everything. I use my calorie intake as a mental guideline. When I get to the point where I've eaten enough in the day based on calories, I can stop and really ask myself: Am I still actually hungry or is it cravings or boredom or something else that's driving me to eat right now. If I'm hungry, I eat regardless of how many calories I've had that day. If I'm not I try to figure out what I might really need, based on macros (almost always for me, I need more protein--recommendations tend to be very low) rather than just snacking on easy to eat food.

I'd recommend finding a good tracking app like Chronometer or Joy. Track everything you eat for the next couple of weeks. Don't restrict, just track it to gather data. Then if your appetite doesn't naturally start to change, you'll be armed with plenty of information about what you're eating and not eating and how that might be getting in the way of meeting your goals.

Also, use a good calculator to estimate what your calorie intake should be be along with your minimum protein. (Try http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com) Keep in mind that, even on low carb, that if you drop your calorie intake below your resting metabolic rate (RMR) for too long you will slow your metabolism. Studies have referred to this as the "Biggest Loser" syndrome, but low carb diets are not protective of this metabolic change. However, low carb diets have been demonstrated to raise RMR so you can eat more and lose, plus the higher fat diet is more satiating. (Fasting has been shown to be protective of it though, so once you've been low carb for a while, it's a good option to explore.)

Eating low carb isn't some kind of crazy miracle diet. Ultimately if you want to lose weight, you can't just eat whatever you want and you'll need to restrict. It's just that it's way easier to do it on low carb than the low-fat, always-hungry plan.
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  #6   ^
Old Sat, Jun-15-19, 13:41
Grav Grav is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,107
 
Plan: Banting
Stats: 302/187/187 Male 175cm
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: New Zealand
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Yeah, that's some good perspective CityGirl.

I suppose I'm one of the "lucky" ones in that I do need less to feel full now, but it took about 3 months for me to finally notice. I guess that's just a reflection of the state that I was in beforehand, that it took that long to happen.

And even now, sometimes that satiety signal takes a bit of time to peak. So sometimes I have to guess a bit; there have been times when I've overshot the mark, eaten till I've felt full, and then an hour later I'm feeling even fuller. But it's only by then that I realise I've actually overeaten.

I still subscribe to CICO, just not as the sole argument or even the primary argument. If certain "calories" such as carbs have this effect of disrupting one's appetite control as they seem to do for a lot of us, then that would mean that eating them makes it considerably more difficult to apply CICO, and so conversely, not eating them makes it considerably easier. I don't consider this an "us vs them" debate, it's more about recognising that there are other factors at play here that influence one's ability to maintain that energy balance that some people would have us focus on more directly/exclusively.
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  #7   ^
Old Sat, Jun-15-19, 19:10
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 4,009
 
Plan: HF/vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
Default

You may also want to play around with when and how often you eat. 6 mini-meals or 3 meals + 2 snacks (even if Induction-level carbs) always left me thinking about food and wanting to eat more, but if I eat the exact same food in 2 or 3 meals in an 8-10 hr window, I feel full until the next meal and don't think about food all day. I also track what I eat to get enough protein and limit carbs and the calories fall where they may, but I've noticed that the meals where I ate less than ~350 calories left me wanting. I just use "My Plan" on this site.
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  #8   ^
Old Sun, Jun-16-19, 19:15
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Luzyanna Luzyanna is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,938
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 162/137/135 Female 5'4”
BF:
Progress: 93%
Location: Louisiana
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I am currently doing 20 carbs or less and 1600 calories or less. Some days my calories are as low as 1200. I won’t lose if my calories are too high. It wasn’t always that way though.
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  #9   ^
Old Mon, Jun-17-19, 04:06
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teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 13,768
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

I always cook for myself too. What I find is that if I cook a pound of steak, I'll eat a pound of steak. If I cook half a pound, I'll eat half a pound. Either meal will satisfy me--I won't go poking around for more food after that half pound, but if the full pound is there, already cooked, I'll eat it.

I'm more an advocate of calorie-counting than I am of calorie restriction. Sort of. I've had periods where I've restricted to say 2000 calories, and ate a fairly set menu--say, so many ounces of meat, green veggies and heavy cream and butter per day. Then maybe I restrict to the same calories, but with some cheese to replace some of the meat, or walnuts to replace some of the heavy cream or butter. Am I as satisfied on the same number of calories? Hungrier? Even within low carb, there are ways to eat that result in a lower appetite. They may not be the same from person to person, I do better on a higher fat ratio, with more control on protein, but I'm sure it's the opposite for lots of people.
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  #10   ^
Old Mon, Jun-17-19, 09:00
jschwab jschwab is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,158
 
Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/224.5/200 Female 5 feet 5.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 71%
Default

Following up on deirdra's comment, another way you can restrict calories is to be fussier about your food. Only eat food you cook at home, for example, or only grassfed beef or restricting to eggs and meat when eating away from home. Or my personal favorite only eat within a certain time frame (intermittent fasting). When you find yourself wanting to eat outside of these parameters, you will find it doesn't make so much sense anymore. You can still count calories if you like, but there are other mental "hacks" that will help you stick to plan and also make your life easier and your eating healthier. One of the biggest benefits of low carb is the freedom from thinking about food all the time.
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  #11   ^
Old Mon, Jun-17-19, 09:09
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,394
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/150/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: NE WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cotonpal
I don't count calories but I do practice portion control because I also do not have a reliable "I'm full" signal. I weigh and measure everything. I also don't snack.


Same here. I tried counting calories but the numbers are so big! I like the smaller carb numbers - easier for me to do the math in my head. While I do eat 3 meals now, 2 of them are very small. My big meal is midday & it's the only one husband & I eat together. So far, it's working for me.

When I stopped snacking (some years ago now) I noticed for the first time how often people eat. I have friends who can't go more than a couple of hours without eating a lot of high-carb foods. It's weird.
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  #12   ^
Old Mon, Jun-17-19, 15:26
ireactions ireactions is offline
New Member
Posts: 7
 
Plan: Keto w.Bulletproof Coffee
Stats: 205/188/145 Male 5'8
BF:25.1
Progress: 28%
Default

Thanks for all the great tips!
Quote:
Originally Posted by CityGirl8
Most of the anti-CICO arguments assume that you're eating a carb-heavy diet. Sure, simply restricting calories isn't a good plan because your body does not treat all calories the same. But it doesn't sound like that's what you're doing at all. There are plenty of people who need to find ways to control what they eat beyond just restricting carbs in order to achieve their goals, especially weight loss goals.
First, you don't say how long you've been eating low carb.
I've done Atkins before but never stuck to it. Recently, I realized that if I did not commit to an eating plan and troubleshoot it, identifying hidden carbs and making sure that I wasn't eating too much even on low carb foods, I'd never get healthy. Since May 22, I've really tried to commit to a low carb diet.

My Fitbit says I burn about 3,000 calories a day and when I input my food into the app, it reports that I'm consuming between 1,600 - 2,000 calories a day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CityGirl8
Many people find that their appetite naturally diminishes after the first several weeks.
I recently noticed that there was dextrose in the store-brand stevia I've been using in morning and afternoon coffee. I thought the tubs and the packets were the same, but in this case, I now see that the packets had dextrose where the tubs had erythritol. I threw it out and replaced it with the erythritol-mixed stevia.

Since then, I haven't been experiencing the cravings I described in my original post that led to eating well after satiation. I think the dextrose affecting me. Now that my blood sugar is stable, I feel in control again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CityGirl8
Eating low carb isn't some kind of crazy miracle diet. Ultimately if you want to lose weight, you can't just eat whatever you want and you'll need to restrict. It's just that it's way easier to do it on low carb than the low-fat, always-hungry plan.
Yeah, that's something I need to keep in mind. It's great that Atkins offers so much range in food choices, but I need to remember that at the core is restriction and even healthy foods will cause problems if overeaten.
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  #13   ^
Old Mon, Jun-17-19, 18:14
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,132
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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It's amazing how certain ingredients can hide out in something that's supposed to be low carb, like dextrose in powdered stevia, and in powdered splenda. The good news is that you caught it and can easily adjust. I'm one who doesn't count calories, but like others, I can eyeball portions on a plate to know whether I'm eating more than usual. I eat to satiety, and I've developed a very good "full" signal compared to way back when I was eating a boatload of carbs. That "full" signal disappeared when carbs were a prominent portion of my food. Now when I get it, I can't eat another bite, and that's a good thing! The remaining food becomes leftovers.
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  #14   ^
Old Mon, Jun-17-19, 18:24
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is online now
Posts: 4,581
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/128/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 106%
Location: Vermont
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
It's amazing how certain ingredients can hide out in something that's supposed to be low carb, like dextrose in powdered stevia, and in powdered splenda. The good news is that you caught it and can easily adjust. I'm one who doesn't count calories, but like others, I can eyeball portions on a plate to know whether I'm eating more than usual. I eat to satiety, and I've developed a very good "full" signal compared to way back when I was eating a boatload of carbs. That "full" signal disappeared when carbs were a prominent portion of my food. Now when I get it, I can't eat another bite, and that's a good thing! The remaining food becomes leftovers.


Although since going low carb so many years ago I no longer suffer from the ravenous hunger that used to plague me I still don't get that "I couldn't eat another bite" feeling. I do wonder why that is but i seem to have adjusted and I work with what I have. I know when to stop and I am no longer ravenously hungry like I once was. I can live with that. I have no doubt that if i started eating high carbs again I would again be ravenously hungry. That helps keep me on the straight and narrow.
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  #15   ^
Old Mon, Jun-17-19, 19:01
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,132
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Likewise. It makes one become very intimately aware of the consequences of past eating behaviors. That "full" signal came out of nowhere, and it could go away very quickly.
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