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  #1   ^
Old Wed, Dec-22-04, 15:17
SweetT SweetT is offline
New Member
Posts: 4
 
Plan: the zone
Stats: 132/128/117 Female 5'4 1/2
BF:
Progress:
Default Ladies, help! Problems are getting worse!

Hey ladies-
I have never posted in this forum before but after having several problems that my doctor insists she can't help me with, i am turning to you all in hopes that your personal experiences can possibly shed light on my issues.

Firstly, I was diagnosed with PCOS a month and a half ago after putting on 10 unexplainable pounds, a face full of acne, hair loss, close to nonexistant periods, and thick, coarse, dark hair on my face,stomach,chest,legs,arms ..well EVERYWHERE...for the past yr!

I realized that when I ate low carb or cut back on sugar, the next day i would lose less hair in the shower and my skin would look clearer..psychological, maybe, but there was a noticeable difference. That led me to believe i might have PCOS so i went to my endo and after seeing my elevated FH/LSH level and slightly elevated testoterone i was diagnosed.. she gave me 500 mg ER metformin just once a day.

The first month i took it in conjunction with a lc diet, I noticed immediete changes. Close to no hair was falling out in the shower and my skin was clear. Plus, i lost about 5 lbs. I knew it was working.

HOWEVER.... now for the past week, 2 things have changed: 1)i am exercising a lot more now and more intensley 2)i have slipped a little on my diet because i am home for the holidays (it's hard to be so strict)..So- all of my problems have come back in FULL FORCE.. my hair shed has doubled and my weight has ballooned back up plus more..plus, i havent had my period this month.. i can't imagine a little daily cookie or some nuts can have this sort of effect on me. I am stlil taking the metformin as well...my doctor even said that you don't need to be 100% strict on your diet to see your symptoms get better..several successful patients of PCOS eat ww breads, pastas, fruits, etc... so i know the diet can't be the culprit but it's the only thing except the intense exercise that has changed...

What could it be?? I am soo worrried and desperate at this point
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  #2   ^
Old Wed, Dec-22-04, 15:58
ninnin ninnin is offline
New Member
Posts: 23
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 201/176/130 Female 151 cm
BF:
Progress: 35%
Default

I'm sorry to say I think it's the diet. There may be several successful patients that eat breads but it doesn't sound like you're one of them. If someone else is preparing the meals could there also be hidden carbs?

There's a really easy test and that's to get back on plan strictly and see if things improve. I know it's not fair that other people can eat carby foods but it doesn't mean you'll NEVER be able to, but, when you do reintroduce them you'll need to do it slowly and watch your body for reactions as you eat a new food.
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  #3   ^
Old Wed, Dec-22-04, 16:25
SweetT SweetT is offline
New Member
Posts: 4
 
Plan: the zone
Stats: 132/128/117 Female 5'4 1/2
BF:
Progress:
Default

Right now, I am trying to do the Zone Diet which i successfully lost 12 lb on in the past.
This diet allows for 40% of my daily intake to be from carbohydrates (the healthy ones) like fruits, veggies, and ww products.
Seeing that you think it a few carbs in my diet could cause this, should I not go with the Zone b/c of the amt carbs it allows?

Thanks
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  #4   ^
Old Wed, Dec-22-04, 16:37
dina1957 dina1957 is offline
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Posts: 1,854
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 194/000/150 Female 5'5"
BF:Not sure
Progress: 441%
Location: Bay Area
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetT
Right now, I am trying to do the Zone Diet which i successfully lost 12 lb on in the past.
This diet allows for 40% of my daily intake to be from carbohydrates (the healthy ones) like fruits, veggies, and ww products.
Seeing that you think it a few carbs in my diet could cause this, should I not go with the Zone b/c of the amt carbs it allows?

Thanks
SweeT:
40% cabrs it's not just a few carbs, may be 20% or less carbs would be better for you? Some ppl are highly IR, and IR causes PCOS. metformin is known to help with both but watch you diet. Make sure you absolutely have no refined sugars in any form, not even ww bread, limit your fruit (if this a problem as well), and try to eat more greens. You can try to eliminate one source of carbs at a time and see if you get better results. Also, 500mG of metformin is the lowest dose, not much if you want to get full benefit of this drug.You may want to talk to your doctor on doubling or even trippling the dose. Also, if your free testosterone is a bit high, exercise will make it worst. It curbs estrogen production in even otherwise healthy females, so take it easy with exercise.
I hope you get better.
D.
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  #5   ^
Old Wed, Dec-22-04, 17:50
Ksrt Ksrt is offline
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Posts: 42
 
Plan: zone
Stats: 205/165/130 Female 5' 5"
BF:
Progress:
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Hello,

I have never posted before but I had to write and tell you not to listen to the people who say it's your diet. I use the zone diet and limiting your carbs to some extent is helpful. But the insulin resistance from PCOS is a low estradiol problem. Go straight to the library and read "it's your Ovaries Stupid" by Dr. Elizabeth Lee Vliet. Do not take your carbs below the zone amount as you will ruin your metabolism even more.

I know it sounds logical that if carbs cause insulin to come out then lowering them makes sense. But if you can't eat a normal amount of nutritious food, something is causing all that insulin resistance and I learned in this book that it is your estradiol. It should be over 100 and it should be tested on day 1 and day 20 of your cycle. Low estradiol throws off your thyroid, adrenal, and insulin function. Do not let them just measure total estrogens, you must get estradiol tested.

READ THID BOOK! I floundered around for 30 years and believe this is the answer or at least it should be checked out!
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  #6   ^
Old Thu, Dec-23-04, 18:31
Grimalkin's Avatar
Grimalkin Grimalkin is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 741
 
Plan: PP
Stats: 160/149/125 Female 66 in.
BF:
Progress: 31%
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I keep my carbs between 20-30/day, have been doing this for almost 2 years, and my 20-yr long PCOS nightmare is virtually over. I do not cheat, or if I do it is very minor - no, not even over the holidays. The PCOS just isn't worth it to me. I noticed that whenever I eat more carbs I break out horribly within days - occasionally I have to eat whatever I can get (like travelling), and so I just grit my teeth and reach for the facial cleanser
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  #7   ^
Old Fri, Dec-24-04, 04:09
jun keater jun keater is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,366
 
Plan: Low carb
Stats: 224.5/155/135 Female 63 inches
BF:
Progress: 78%
Location: Michigan
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My doctor said the BEST POSSIBLE way to eat for someone with PCOS is....... low carb. So, I believe it might be the diet.
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  #8   ^
Old Fri, Dec-24-04, 11:48
Ksrt Ksrt is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 42
 
Plan: zone
Stats: 205/165/130 Female 5' 5"
BF:
Progress:
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If you would read the book referenced above, you would find out that most doctors don't know what they are doing. Yes, you can work around the insulin resistance by taking your carbs down to ridiculous levels, but if you are having to do that, your body is not working hormonally correct and there might be a way to make it work the way it's supposed to rather than trying to get around it with diet. I did Atkins for many years and it resulted in my metabolism becoming even more insulin resistant. So what seems to work short term messes you up more in the long term. Therefore, doing some low carb (like the zone) is a good thing to do. Doing ridiculous low carb where you cannot take in all the nutrients your body needs every day forces you onto a dietary regimen that is a workaround. What if you could have a cure that allows you to eat normally?

Krst
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  #9   ^
Old Sun, Dec-26-04, 11:37
SweetT SweetT is offline
New Member
Posts: 4
 
Plan: the zone
Stats: 132/128/117 Female 5'4 1/2
BF:
Progress:
Default

but..what if i a plan like the zone doesnt alleviate my symptoms? I was thinking that maybe I could do atkins indiuction for 2 weeks, then ease back into a plan like IR or the Zone once i reach my goal weight because I know once that goal is met, the problems should definitely start to go away...
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  #10   ^
Old Sun, Dec-26-04, 12:36
Ksrt Ksrt is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 42
 
Plan: zone
Stats: 205/165/130 Female 5' 5"
BF:
Progress:
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Basically, what it comes down to is this. If you are insulin resistant, your body is responding to what it perceives as a threat. If the threat is that you've been doing a lot of dieting, or you don't sleep enough, or you do drugs, smoking, alcohol, caffeine, or any number of other bad lifestyle habits, then the cure for you is to eat balanced meals and let your body rebuild it's functionality. With rebuilding functionality, you will also rebuild some fat. But your metabolism will heal and then your excess fat will be burned off. Read the Schwarzbein Principle and the Schwarzbein Principle II for a good education of how your metabolism works.

The reason not to do Atkins or take your insulin further down is that while it might alleviate symptoms in the short term, in the long term your body will respond with even more insulin in an attempt to rebuild the functionality you are losing doing that and then you will be stuck in a metabolic hole that you can never get out of. That is the real reason people who do very low carb diets can never stop. The weight regain is a NATURAL reaction to your body thinking you've been in a famine. But even if you are willing to continue with it for life, eventually you will have increasing insulin anyway and you will not be able to lower your carbs anymore and you will be unbalancing other body systems like your adrenal and thyroid function.

If your body doesn't respond well to the zone, you might have a true glandular dysfunction like a thyroid or estrogen problem. If you have this, no amount of workaround with your diet will ever get you well. You might be better short term, but you will never be right. In this case, you need hormonal help from a doctor. Both thyroid and estrogen affect insulin sensitivity. Read "It's My Ovaries, Stupid" by DR. Elizabeth Vliet to understand these things.

I'm not trying to upset you atkins people. I did Atkins for many years and completely ruined my health and I am trying to steer you in the right direction. Dr. Schwarzbein says you have to get healthy to lose weight not lose weight to get healthy. After trying absolutely everything, I believe her on this.
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  #11   ^
Old Sun, Dec-26-04, 13:09
Zuleikaa Zuleikaa is offline
Posts: 16,698
 
Plan: Mishmash
Stats: 365/350.4/160 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 7%
Location: Maryland, US
Default

SweetT
IMHO your increase in PCOS symptoms is probably both exercise and winter related. Intense exercise increases testosterone thus increasing symptoms and winter suppresses the production of vitamin D which regulates hormone production amoung a host of other things, that lack of hormone regulation also increases PCOS symptoms.

I recommend that you take 800 IU vitamin D, 600 mg. calcium 300 mg of magnesium, and 200 mcg GTF chromium 2-3 times a day along with a multi vitamin and any other supplements you're taking.

Read the following links for the implication of vitamin D deficiency in PCOS.

http://www.ovarian-cysts-pcos.com/n...-acne.html#sec1

http://www.bioticsresearch.com/PDF/...4%20Vasquez.pdf
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  #12   ^
Old Mon, Dec-27-04, 03:09
Grimalkin's Avatar
Grimalkin Grimalkin is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 741
 
Plan: PP
Stats: 160/149/125 Female 66 in.
BF:
Progress: 31%
Default

I actually tried the Schwarzbein program for almost 8 months before Atkins. It didn't help my PCOS a bit. I'm glad it's working for you Ksrt, but I didn't start seeing improvements until I ditched the carbs. Probably one of those YMMV things.
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  #13   ^
Old Mon, Dec-27-04, 10:04
Ksrt Ksrt is offline
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Posts: 42
 
Plan: zone
Stats: 205/165/130 Female 5' 5"
BF:
Progress:
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I believe you wholeheartedly that the Schwarzbein program didn't help your pcos symptoms. What I am saying is that the Schwarzbein program is the way you should be able to eat. If you can't then you need medical treatment. In Dr. Vliet's book, It's Your Ovaries, Stupid, she talks about how low estradiol is at the root of the problems in pcos. Doctors do not know this as they are not taught it in medical school. They do not test estrogen and progesterone, even though these are ovarian hormones and it's in the name, polycystic ovarian syndrome. Having low estrogen, particularly estradiol, causes the insulin resistance and low thyroid symptoms that force you to have to do a very low carb diet like Atkins. Getting proper treatment so your hormones get back in balance allows you to live NORMALLY. I can now eat the zone or Schwarzbein way because of treatment. When you workaround it with diet, you are possibly lowering your insulin (temporarily) but you are also burning out your adrenal glands and throwing other hormone systems out of balance. The key to being healthy is hormonal balance and having your cells respond to insulin the way they are supposed to. Just because you stop eating, doesn't mean you've done anything to help the way your cells RESPOND to insulin which is what needs to be fixed for you to be well. If you really want to help your pcos, read this book. I cannot explain all of it the way Dr. Vliet does.
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  #14   ^
Old Sat, Jan-01-05, 04:44
ninnin ninnin is offline
New Member
Posts: 23
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 201/176/130 Female 151 cm
BF:
Progress: 35%
Default

How did you ruin your health with Atkins? I feel great energetic and losing weight. What's wrong with that?

I've had hypoglycaemic symptoms since I was a little girl and my son has them too. He doesn't need estrodial does he?
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  #15   ^
Old Sun, Jan-02-05, 18:19
Ksrt Ksrt is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 42
 
Plan: zone
Stats: 205/165/130 Female 5' 5"
BF:
Progress:
Default

Hello,

I ruined my health as you will because Atkins takes your insulin too low. Thus you are unable to rebuild functionality that you are losing along with your fat, such as hormones, muscle tissue and other body parts that need enough insulin to rebuild. You ruin your health with Atkins because your body adjusts your insulin and adrenal hormones (actually all of them) to what you are doing. When your try to adjust back, you gain weight more quickly because your body is trying to rebuild you even faster than before because it believes you have been in a famine and it needs to rebuild those body parts. You will also build lots of fat since insulin rebuilds both lean and fat. The real trick for the Atkins people is that even the ones who never go back to eating carbs get more insulin resistance with your body attempting to rebuild anyway. Now, you've really got a problem because there's no more carbs to take out to handle your extra insulin. It's not the food you're eating, it's the way your cells handle the food. Short term on Atkins, things do get better because you've eliminated a major cause of insulin, food! However, the insulin you really want to eliminate is the insulin that your body is releasing in an effort to rebuild you. To do this, you have to get worse before you get better and let your body rebuild itself. When you do, you will get fatter but when you are done, your body will be able to burn off the excess fat naturally without this monumental effort. Read Schwarzbein Principle II to understand this better.

As for your son, I doubt if he's been diagnosed at a person with pcos. My point is that doctors are missing a glandular cause for the insulin resistance in pcos patients which should be replaced just as someone with thyroid disease needs thyroid replacement, so things will work normally. You cannot work around a glandular dysfuction with dietary changes. However, obviously your son did not get insulin resistant from pcos or low estradiol. There are many causes of insulin problems and the trick is to find out how he got that way. Maybe he really did overeat carbohydrates. Probably in him, the zone would work as well and he wouldn't get the problems you get in Atkins. I can't tell you as I haven't studied boys as much as pcos women.

I knew I didn't get overweight through overeating and underexercising and finally found a doctor who knew what to do so I didn't have to starve myself anymore. I just wanted to share in case anyone else thinks it applies to them.
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