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  #1   ^
Old Tue, Feb-09-16, 15:02
NEMarvin's Avatar
NEMarvin NEMarvin is offline
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Plan: keto
Stats: 410/298.6/225 Male 74 inches
BF:40/35%/17%
Progress: 60%
Location: Lincoln, NE
Default Triglyceride/HDL ratio?

Does anyone pay attention to the Triglyceride/HDL ratio? I was reading a Zero Carb blog (myzerocarblife) and she mentioned this ratio as the most important one there is (for heart or artery health). She referenced this article: http://www.docsopinion.com/2014/07/...ride-hdl-ratio/
In short the ratio should be 2 or less.

I work in the financial industry and I know that the key ratio that they are interested in is your Cholesterol/HDL ratio, and they want that under 5.

Interestingly enough, I just had bloodwork done on January 8, shortly before starting back on LCHF, and so I have my numbers here. The relevant ones are:

Triglycerides 183 should be <150 (noted as high but doctor is not concerned)
HDL 40 should be >39
A1c 5.9 should be <6.0

So, my Tri/HDL ratio is 4.575, which is considerably higher than the desired. I believe I understood that the elevated blood sugar levels will also elevate the Triglyceride levels. But beyond that, I don't have a lot of knowledge. Again, to be clear, I was not eating low carb ahead of this bloodwork. I am assuming that my A1c will come down at my next blood work which will be in July.

Does anyone follow this ratio?
Will my Triglycerides come down with LCHF, reduced BG, reduced insulin, and weight loss?
Will my HDL levels elevate with LCHF and weight loss?
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  #2   ^
Old Tue, Feb-09-16, 15:08
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ojoj ojoj is offline
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Plan: atkins
Stats: 210/126/127 Female 5ft 7in
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Location: South of England
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I dont count anything to do with lipids. I'm not sure what it proves. sorry

Jo xxx
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, Feb-09-16, 15:12
NEMarvin's Avatar
NEMarvin NEMarvin is offline
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Posts: 837
 
Plan: keto
Stats: 410/298.6/225 Male 74 inches
BF:40/35%/17%
Progress: 60%
Location: Lincoln, NE
Default

actually if I read further in the article, it does tell me how to improve my ratio.

I am still curious if anyone else is paying attention to that ratio.
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, Feb-09-16, 16:57
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Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
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On low carb your HDL will rise slowly, unless you avoid fat. So fat = good HDL. Triglycerides should come down quickly unless you're diabetic and/or have a genetic condition causing high triglycerides. Many of us end up with trig well under 100 and HDL approaching 100, but it takes being pretty strict and takes some time.

Also, were you fasting for 12 hours before the test? triglycerides will rise after a meal and stay up for some time. How long have you been on LC?

Your A1C isn't bad.

Smoking, alcohol and exercising can also influence those numbers.
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, Feb-09-16, 17:34
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is online now
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Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
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Location: Longmont, Colorado
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I quit getting tested for lipids quite a few years ago. I know that low-carbing is best for my body and I'm not going to worry about numbers.
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  #6   ^
Old Tue, Feb-09-16, 19:43
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thud123 thud123 is offline
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Plan: P:E=>1 (Q3-22)
Stats: 168/100/82 Male 182cm
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Hey ya Marvin, I never paid much attention to the ratios since I rarely have been to the doctor for the last 10 years or so. This is not a smart thing to do! I started to get back on track summer of 2014 and then started LCHF October this year. I had a checkup one month before I started and got the lipids, I had an intermediate checkup for another issue and requested another lipid panel. I still had in my mind that all this fat I've been eating was going to wack-out some of the numbers but they all moved.

9/30/2015 Tri/HDL ratio 2.6
2/6/2016 Tri/HDL radio 1.6

The weird thing is that my LDL went down from 120 to 75 and the fats I primarily eat are saturated animal fat.

So is the ratio suppose to go down in general? Yes. What will happen for you? Who knows, but I hope the result pleases you and your doctor.


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  #7   ^
Old Tue, Feb-09-16, 19:44
NEMarvin's Avatar
NEMarvin NEMarvin is offline
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Plan: keto
Stats: 410/298.6/225 Male 74 inches
BF:40/35%/17%
Progress: 60%
Location: Lincoln, NE
Default

I was diagnosed diabetic in 2009 with an A1c of 7.8. Low carb, weight loss of about 60 lbs, and metformin brought it down to the current level. I've been off metformin for 3 years.

I was fasting before the test at least 12 hours. I started Lc again shortly after that.
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  #8   ^
Old Tue, Feb-09-16, 19:54
MickiSue MickiSue is offline
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Plan: Atkins
Stats: 189/148.6/145 Female 5' 5"
BF:36%/28%/25%
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Location: Twin Cities, MN
Default

I agree that Tri/HDL ratio is very important. Tris tend to be a reflection of the carbs in your diet: they are literally fatty acids attached to glycerol, a sugar. Less sugars, fewer triglycerides.

OTOH, if you are actively losing weight, it's possible for them to spike.

EATING fatty meat has nothing to do with your body MAKING cholesterol. The fats you consume cannot transfer through the gut/blood interface without breaking down into fatty acids, and they don't suddenly regroup once they get to the locations where they are used.

As noted with triglycerides, you need carbs, and a lot of them, to make the "bad" kinds of cholesterol.

All that said...there is a whole lot more that most of the medical profession does not know about the role of cholesterol and its components in the human body than what they do know.

As you approach your goal weight, if you are staying on plan and keeping carbs below 20 (net or gross), you can expect that your lipid profile will change drastically.

Currently, I'm under 10 lbs from my goal, and I had bloodwork drawn in November, when I was less than 15 lbs from goal.

My HDL is actually significantly higher than my triglycerides. OTOH, I have been grain free for over 2 and a half years, moderately low carb for most of that time, and low carb for over 9 months, with one meal off plan in that entire time.
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  #9   ^
Old Wed, Feb-10-16, 06:27
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JEY100 JEY100 is online now
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Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

Trig/HDL is the only ratio I have paid any attention to in the past five years. But then with Dr. Westman as my doctor, a co-author of Cholesterol Clarity, that would make sense.
He along with many progressive doctors and cardiologists like Dr. Sigurdsson (good blog) and Dr. Davis, suggest that ratio rather than the TC/HDL. If you want to really delve into why, I would recommend the CC book. I have copied parts of the book into previous threads on this forum (maybe can find some for you later) but read back through here.

From your before LC numbers, you have work to do. As Nancy mentioned though, Trigs usually drop dramatically very quickly (unless they are messed up by the weight loss process itself, which often happens in the first few months). don't retest right now.

If you really want the inside scoop on your arteries, consider the CAC test:
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=471526

Quote:
DOCTOR’S NOTE FROM DR. ERIC WESTMAN: The more I read articles, perform research, and follow patients in my clinic, the less concerned I become about the traditional way of looking at their blood cholesterol levels. I don’t even worry about blood cholesterol for the vast majority of people who have basically normal levels. Medical doctors were taught—and then we taught our patients—that cholesterol in the blood is a bad thing; that LDL cholesterol is lousy or lethal and that HDL cholesterol is healthy. And, because the pharmaceutical companies have only been able to create medications that lower LDL, we have not heard much about HDL. American medicine has a way of quashing minority opinions. Maybe in our rush to create guidelines or in the competitive nature of pharmaceutical companies we have forgotten how to do true science. The reality is that there have always been a group of scientists and clinicians who never believed in this flawed interpretation of cholesterol—men like Dr. Gerald Reaven, most famous for identifying metabolic syndrome, and Dr. Robert C. Atkins, who popularized the low-carb, high-fat diet. Instead, they emphasized the importance of lowering triglycerides and raising HDL cholesterol. They didn’t know the reasons for this back when they were making these proclamations, but they knew that addressing these blood components could be helpful to the patients dealing with obesity and chronic disease. Now, with greater scientific precision, we know just why triglycerides and HDL are a much better pair of numbers to look at than LDL-C and total cholesterol.

Moore, Jimmy; Westman, Eric C. (2013-08-25). Cholesterol Clarity: What The HDL Is Wrong With My Numbers? (p. 107). Victory Belt Publishing. Kindle Edition.


TRIGS:

Quote:
What are optimal levels for good health? Here’s where reality veers dramatically from conventional wisdom: The “desirable” number promoted by mainstream health experts is ridiculously high. Instead of 150 mg/dL, you should be aiming for 100 mg/dL or less. In fact, we suggest 70mg/dL as the optimal range for healthy triglyceride levels. Can you lower triglycerides naturally? Sorry if I’m beginning to sound like a broken record, but I can’t resist the song: Decrease your carbohydrates! Do this and your triglycerides will drop like a rock. My wife Christine is the perfect example of this. She had triglycerides pushing 300 mg/dL in 2008 and, in just six weeks, got that number down to 130 by eating a low-carb diet and taking a cod liver oil supplement. When she kicked her M&Ms and Skittles habit, her triglycerides dropped even further, to an amazing 43 mg/dL.

Moore, Jimmy; Westman, Eric C. (2013-08-25). Cholesterol Clarity: What The HDL Is Wrong With My Numbers? (pp. 200-201). Victory Belt Publishing. Kindle Edition.


HDL:

Quote:
What are the optimal levels for good health? HDL has been all but ignored by mainstream medicine, which focuses almost exclusively on LDL and total cholesterol. And yet it can be argued that this number (along with triglycerides) is the best predictor of heart disease risk. To derive the biggest benefits for your cardiovascular health, you want your HDL cholesterol at 70 mg/dL or higher, which is more than what mainstream experts recommend. Anything below 50 should be cause for concern. Can you raise HDL naturally? If you love consuming animal fats but have cut back to keep your cholesterol numbers down, take heart: One of the best ways to raise your HDL cholesterol is to consume more dietary fats, including healthy saturated fats, such as coconut oil, butter, cream, full-fat meats, and dairy, as well as monounsaturated fats like avocados and olive oil. Sounds too good to be true, right? But consuming a high-fat diet provides your body with the raw materials for making HDL cholesterol. Additionally, HDL production responds to regular exercise, reducing alcohol consumption, and (if you’re up for it) periodic, intermittent fasting of sixteen hours at a time.

Moore, Jimmy; Westman, Eric C. (2013-08-25). Cholesterol Clarity: What The HDL Is Wrong With My Numbers? (p. 198). Victory Belt Publishing. Kindle Edition.


So you can see, the OPTIMAL ratio is 1. Below 2 is Good, that should be your first goal. Good tips above to acheive that

Last edited by JEY100 : Wed, Feb-10-16 at 06:39.
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  #10   ^
Old Wed, Feb-10-16, 08:49
MickiSue MickiSue is offline
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Posts: 8,006
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 189/148.6/145 Female 5' 5"
BF:36%/28%/25%
Progress: 92%
Location: Twin Cities, MN
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That's really interesting, Janet. The last time I had lipids done before November was in 2011. My Trigs were conventionally good at that time. Now, they're 33.
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  #11   ^
Old Wed, Feb-10-16, 09:09
NEMarvin's Avatar
NEMarvin NEMarvin is offline
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Plan: keto
Stats: 410/298.6/225 Male 74 inches
BF:40/35%/17%
Progress: 60%
Location: Lincoln, NE
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Thanks for the snippets Janet. These are very helpful reinforcements.

I am to see my doctor again in July, and I"m sure that he will want to do blood work again at that point. I won't expect anything terribly dramatic, because I will still be in the throes of active weight loss then, but after 6 months on low carb, fat-eating, and exercise, my TRIG/HDL ratio should be markedly better.
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  #12   ^
Old Wed, Feb-10-16, 09:25
MickiSue MickiSue is offline
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Posts: 8,006
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 189/148.6/145 Female 5' 5"
BF:36%/28%/25%
Progress: 92%
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Default

Marvin, you absolutely can become an educator to your doctor. You can say to him, "Doc, let's wait another 6 months or a year for lipids. You know they get crazy when people are actively losing, and it'd be better to check them once they settle down, don't you think?
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  #13   ^
Old Wed, Feb-10-16, 09:36
NEMarvin's Avatar
NEMarvin NEMarvin is offline
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Posts: 837
 
Plan: keto
Stats: 410/298.6/225 Male 74 inches
BF:40/35%/17%
Progress: 60%
Location: Lincoln, NE
Default

I may have given the wrong impression. I am very interested in seeing the changes that have taken place in July. After 6 months on low carb and IF, I am certain I will see changes in my A1c. And fortunately, my doctor is pretty laid back about it all...he wasn't concerned about my Trig though I'm sure if it moved much higher he would be. He's a big believer in not medicating unless it's absolutely necessary and I don't think we're anywhere near that point yet. And, even if my TRIGs are higher, I would understand why and could verbalize that. Also curious what 6 months of LC and exercise will do to my HDL.
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  #14   ^
Old Wed, Feb-10-16, 10:14
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
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Location: San Diego, CA
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Yeah, before you even go near cholesterol medication, do some reading up. It probably will harm you more than it helps. Got some good articles about it in my sig.
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  #15   ^
Old Wed, Feb-10-16, 14:41
NEMarvin's Avatar
NEMarvin NEMarvin is offline
Boldly going...
Posts: 837
 
Plan: keto
Stats: 410/298.6/225 Male 74 inches
BF:40/35%/17%
Progress: 60%
Location: Lincoln, NE
Default

I won't go on cholesterol medicine. I've already decided I will go toe to toe and head to head with my doctor on that issue. Too many risks.

One thing I haven't mentioned is that I am on a Beta Blocker and a Diuretic for high blood pressure. I am thinking that soon the diuretic should be able to go away. I might just begin experimenting with it (i.e.,not taking it). I'm thinking that it might not be making any difference. After doing some reading on insulin being the main cause of fluid retention (and not salt), continuing the IF and LCHF should resolve that issue.

Making a note to self to start taking blood pressure 2x a day and keeping track, and then trying a test for a week or two without the meds....
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