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  #1   ^
Old Wed, Feb-05-20, 08:08
Calianna's Avatar
Calianna Calianna is online now
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Default The Ketotarian Diet

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/ketotarian-diet


Quote:
The ketotarian diet is a plant-based version of the low carb, high fat keto diet.

This diet allows you to experience the benefits of both a vegetarian diet and a keto diet. It also provides some flexibility, as you can eat eggs, ghee (clarified butter), and even fish.


Fish? So it's preferably pescatarian, not vegetarian, but if you can't even bring yourself to do vegetarian with eggs and ghee, then they provide a list of vegan sources of (incomplete) protein.

Quote:
To follow the ketotarian diet, you need to restrict your daily carb intake to less than 5% of your calories. For many people, this works out to 25 grams of net carbs — total carbs minus fiber — or fewer.

In addition, you should aim to eat 70–75% of your calories from fat and 20–25% of your calories from protein.


And on this pescatarian/vegetarian/vegan diet, you aim for the exact same ratios of carbs/fats/proteins as on a keto diet, which will undoubtedly be an abomination to many vegetarians/vegans who eat almost no fats, while eating hundreds of grams of carbs daily.

Quote:
It is a low carb, high fat ketogenic diet that is mostly vegetarian, with the exception of eggs and fish.

Overall, the ketotarian diet is an excellent way to experience the benefits of both keto and a primarily plant-based diet.

However, because it’s restrictive it may be difficult to follow long term.


Do these people have any idea how to do math? If you have 70-75% of calories from fats, that means it's a fat based diet, not a plant based diet, just like a regular keto diet. If your carbs are reduced to 5% of your diet, that means you're going to be limited to the same amount of veggies as any other keto diet.

It's all about the spin though.

Not surprisingly, just like with a regular keto diet, they warn that because it's so restrictive, it may be difficult to follow long term. And they're right - this is far more restrictive than regular keto, especially if you're doing it without the eggs and fish, because it won't be long before you're feeling the effects of missing micronutrients (beginning with B12 and heme iron), and incomplete proteins, because you're not eating any animal products at all.
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  #2   ^
Old Wed, Feb-05-20, 09:54
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Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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How are eating eggs vegetarian. That baffles me. Its genetic material for a chick and if fertilized, a baby chick...... eggs are an animal.
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  #3   ^
Old Wed, Feb-05-20, 10:34
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teaser teaser is offline
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I'd rather just let people call themselves vegetarians but eat eggs and fish. They'll likely be better off.

Anyways, vegetarian just means you eat plants. I'm a vegetarian, just not an exclusive vegetarian. This week I've been a Lacto-ovo-vegetarian, I've just felt more like eggs than meat. Usually I'm a carno-lacto-ovo-vegetarian. I like seafood, but I'm a little bit allergic to almost all but the most lackluster white fish.
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  #4   ^
Old Wed, Feb-05-20, 10:35
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teaser teaser is offline
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Lol at this thing where "tarian" as a suffix has come to mean "somehow related to eating vegetables."
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  #5   ^
Old Wed, Feb-05-20, 10:40
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Calianna Calianna is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
How are eating eggs vegetarian. That baffles me. Its genetic material for a chick and if fertilized, a baby chick...... eggs are an animal.



Depends on how you define vegetarian. These days most who identify as vegetarian will eat eggs and dairy, while those who identify as vegans won't eat anything that came from an animal.



I noticed that htey called it Ketotarian though, rather than calling it keto-vegetarian or keto-vegan, because that gave them the ability to add fish to the menu, since the -tarian suffix could include pesca-tarian.



Silly, but at least it gives die-hard vegetarians and vegans a way to do a LC diet, without feeling like they're going against their plant-based diet preferences. I don't think it'll work for them long term - but then veganism doesn't work long term anyway.



Even vegetarianism can be difficult to maintain long term - a few years ago when one of my kids went vegetarian for a time, there was a rare snowstorm in her area. We all know that when it snows, the first things the stores run out of are bread, milk, TP and EGGS. She went to the store after work to do her regular shopping and was extremely upset that there were no eggs left in the store, since as a vegetarian, she depended on eggs for protein, complaining that the meat eaters could have had any of the meats on the shelves, but no, they bought out all the eggs, while she didn't have that option, and now she'd be without protein until after the storm passed, and they had eggs on the shelves again. (apparently every customer who bought eggs that day only did it just because they knew a vegetarian was coming in later, hoping to buy eggs )

Last edited by Calianna : Wed, Feb-05-20 at 11:08.
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, Feb-05-20, 11:06
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Calianna Calianna is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
How are eating eggs vegetarian. That baffles me. Its genetic material for a chick and if fertilized, a baby chick...... eggs are an animal.



Eh...not really, not unless the egg has been fertilized. The yolk sack is what nourishes the baby chick until it's ready to hatch - the genetic material that can be fertilized to produce the chick is a tiny area attached to the yolk sack. The tiny bit of genetic material attached to the yolk sack is only half the genetic material required to form a chick. The other half of the genetic material needed to create a baby chick needs to be provided by a rooster, and this needs to occur before the egg is formed and laid. These days, only egg production facilities that sell fertilized eggs will have any roosters around to do that job. Unless you're able to obtain fertilized eggs, there's not going to be any baby chicks in the eggs you buy.


Chickens lay one or two eggs daily during prime egg laying season - whether there's a rooster within 100 miles or not. In the same way, a woman will still release one unfertilized egg approximately once a month during her childbearing years, but it can't even begin to grow into a baby unless it's fertilized.
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Feb-05-20, 11:15
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Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Default

( I raise chickens , turkeys, and horses and sheep. I understand the science. And have a BS in An Sci )

There is genetic material on the surface of the yolk. It is the germ plasm the female provides to the procreation. The yolk is contained by animal protein. Both are animal protein not vegetative.




Gotta go turn the eggs.....

Last edited by Ms Arielle : Wed, Feb-05-20 at 13:56.
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, Feb-05-20, 11:40
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WereBear WereBear is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calianna
Depends on how you define vegetarian. These days most who identify as vegetarian will eat eggs and dairy, while those who identify as vegans won't eat anything that came from an animal.


I think the idea being the animal should die and then we eat it. Fish is a special case, obviously

My outlook on plant-based eating has been utterly transformed with my "plant content is a condiment" style that works out best for me. I don't see how they can get any fat from plants except avocado, which has carbs. The burden would be on dairy then. If they eat dairy.
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  #9   ^
Old Wed, Feb-05-20, 11:58
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deirdra deirdra is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
Fish is a special case, obviously
Fish don't have cute mammalian eyes. That's how hypocrites roll.
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  #10   ^
Old Wed, Feb-05-20, 13:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
... I don't see how they can get any fat from plants except avocado, which has carbs. The burden would be on dairy then. If they eat dairy.

Coconut oil is vegan.
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  #11   ^
Old Wed, Feb-05-20, 16:07
Calianna's Avatar
Calianna Calianna is online now
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger
Coconut oil is vegan.



So is olive oil.


Here's the foods they said you should eat on Ketotorian:
Quote:
Here’s a list of the foods you should eat while following the ketotarian diet:
  • Fruits: blueberries, blackberries, strawberries (although they should be limited)
  • Non-starchy vegetables: broccoli, cauliflower, zucchini, summer squash, cabbage, lettuce, greens, Brussels sprouts, avocado, green beans, mushrooms
  • Dairy: unsweetened nut milks
  • Proteins: hemp seeds, flax seeds, chia seeds, natto, tempeh, spirulina, nutritional yeast, peanuts, tree nuts, hemp protein powder, peas, eggs and fish (optional)
  • Fats: olive oil, coconut oil, avocado oil, nut butters, ghee (optional)




I find unsweetened nut milks to be a silly entry under dairy - especially since it's the only entry. It's not enough that they're calling "soaked nut liquid" a milk - now they want you to believe that it's actually a dairy product, just plant based.


They really don't know what they're doing when it comes to these lists though - If you eat more than a couple small servings of any of the items aside from the oils and ghee, you're going to get some carbs that will count towards your 25 g net. They don't even mention most green leafy veggies, and yet include things like peanuts and berries - well, there goes their carb allowance for the day!



Quote:
Conversely, here are the foods you should avoid on the ketotarian diet:
  • Carbs: bread, pasta, rice, oatmeal, grits, tortillas, chips, crackers, cookies, cakes, pastries, ice cream
  • Fruits: bananas, apples, oranges, grapes, mangoes, cherries, pineapples
  • Starchy vegetables: sweet potatoes, corn
  • Nightshades: tomatoes, peppers, eggplants, white potatoes
  • Dairy: cow’s milk, ice cream, yogurt
  • Proteins: meat (beef, chicken, pork), beans, chickpeas, lentils, non-fermented soy products (tofu, black soybeans), seitan
  • Fats: lard, bacon fat, seed oils




I'm surprised they felt the need to add the various meats, lard, and bacon to the lists of unallowed proteins and fats - don't vegetarians and vegans already avoid those?
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  #12   ^
Old Wed, Feb-05-20, 17:38
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Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
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It's an omnivorous diet. What plant do eggs, fish, and butter grow on. Reading that made me read no more. Pure B.S.

My diet is omnivorous too, I eat food from plants and animals.

Bob
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  #13   ^
Old Wed, Feb-05-20, 18:25
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is online now
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Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-a-rama
It's an omnivorous diet. What plant do eggs, fish, and butter grow on. Reading that made me read no more. Pure B.S.

My diet is omnivorous too, I eat food from plants and animals.

Bob

Vegetarians don't eat meat. Meat can mean many things in regards to food.

The Marriam-Webster dictionary defines meat as:

Definition of meat
1a: FOOD
especially : solid food as distinguished from drink
b: the edible part of something as distinguished from its covering (such as a husk or shell)
2: animal tissue considered especially as food:
a: FLESH sense 2
also : flesh of a mammal as opposed to fowl or fish
b: FLESH sense 1a
specifically : flesh of domesticated animals
3 archaic : MEAL entry 1 sense 1
especially : DINNER
4a: the core of something : HEART
b: PITH sense 2b
a novel with meat
5: favorite pursuit or interest

Definition 2 allows fish and egg to be meatless foods.

I was raised a Catholic and we were no allowed to eat meat on Fridays but fish and eggs were allowed since they were not meat.
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  #14   ^
Old Thu, Feb-06-20, 04:52
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WereBear WereBear is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger
Coconut oil is vegan.


Doh! You are correct.

Looking at the list... what a mess. I would be so SICK eating that way.
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  #15   ^
Old Thu, Feb-06-20, 07:29
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is online now
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Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
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Progress: 116%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
Doh! You are correct.

Looking at the list... what a mess. I would be so SICK eating that way.
I can't believe that anyone could follow that eating plan for very long. The food choices to get enough fat in meals are very limited.
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