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  #106   ^
Old Wed, Sep-27-17, 05:37
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RawNut
True. Why would dietary AGEs taste good though? What's the evolutionary perspective? Cooking kills disease causing organisms perhaps? But over-cooking tastes like crap. Goldilocks I guess.


You do get AGE formation as animals get older and as plants ripen. If you go past ripening to fermentation of meat and plant matter, AGE formation can be quite high. Animals that can enjoy food that's a bit further along might get a bit of a survival advantage. Increased k2 intake, or meat becoming increasingly flavourful as it ages could encourage an animal to gorge and take advantage of a windfall of meat before it becomes truly uneatable.
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  #107   ^
Old Sat, Sep-30-17, 06:51
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,371
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Cryptocurrency and Carnivory, a far-fetched but apparently real connection.

"Inside the World of the 'Bitcoin Carnivores'
September 29, 2017
Why a small community of Bitcoin users is eating meat exclusively.

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/...coin-carnivores
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  #108   ^
Old Sat, Sep-30-17, 07:42
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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Lol at bitcoin being a revolt against fiat money--maybe a revolt against government-backed fiat money, but it's still fiat money.

Quote:
Paleo, by basing itself on a past that wasn't recorded in writing but can only be conjured in imagination, invites politics.


I think this actually applies fairly well to Paleo 2.0. A few years ago, when Dr. Kurt Harris started talking about how paleo shouldn't be reenactment, I was agin it. There are some paleolithic groups that have fairly well worked out diet--we're not talking prehistory when we look at the traditional Inuit diet, or the traditional Australian aboriginal diet, or the traditional Hawaiian diet. The Kitivans aren't paleo, but they also have an example of a less processed diet where we're not just guessing at what they ate.

My problem with reenactment--take somebody from Japan, eating as the Japanese ate fifty years ago. They'll have less of certain diseases, like heart disease, breast cancer. Move them here, rates of these diseases go up, move their children back--can't know for sure but it's very reasonable to suppose the kid's rates of disease will go down with that change in diet and lifestyle. Epidemiology might show correlation, not causation--but change just about everything, reenact as closely as possible the conditions that showed less disease, and it seems to me you're more likely to hit on the things that actually make a difference, without actually knowing what they are. In fact it seems to me that you're more likely to be tragically wrong if you believe that you know more details of why the approach should work. That could get you, our ancestors ate meat, so so can I. They had honey and nuts, so I can have honey-nut cookies. Seal fat is safe for the Inuit, sweet potato is safe for Kitivans, so I can have sweet potato french fries made with seal oil. I don't think so.

Of course this means you're going to have to know something about how people lived and ate if you want to benefit from a paleo approach. Which removes the "we don't know what all those paleolithic peoples ate" problem entirely, anybody approaching paleo based on what people ate way back when we can't be certain what people actually ate is working blindfolded, only paleo groups we have clear data on should be considered relevant. Nobody needed to make up a carnivorous past, we have small groups of carnivorous people even up to the current day.

I consider the Inuit a bit of an exception, in that their diet was simple enough by necessity that it's a little easier to understand why a diet that approaches theirs is therapeutic.
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  #109   ^
Old Sat, Sep-30-17, 07:48
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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Quote:
That could get you, our ancestors ate meat, so so can I.


I should explain this since it sticks out like a sore thumb vs. french fries and cookes--I'm just saying that meat being safe under various conditions isn't to say that there aren't conditions under which increasing meat might make things worse. I'm also not claiming to know what those conditions are, just saying that's not a logical conclusion.
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  #110   ^
Old Fri, Oct-06-17, 08:51
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,371
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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DietDoctor picked up Kelly Hogan's story. New photos.

LEFT: Age 25. Worked out. Ate low-fat/high-Carb. Infertile. RIGHT:Age 38. No workouts. Zero Carbs, high fat. 3 kids.

https://www.dietdoctor.com/zero-carbs-ten-years
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  #111   ^
Old Fri, Oct-13-17, 08:03
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,791
 
Plan: Carnivore
Stats: 212/179/160 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Rural Maine
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Janet, I saw that post in Diet Doctor. Wow! I've been contemplating zero carb, or as close to it as I can get. This thread has been interesting, to say the least!
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  #112   ^
Old Fri, Oct-13-17, 18:25
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,284
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Vermont
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I found the after picture that goes along with this story a little disturbing. Maybe she is very healthy but to my eyes she looks extremely thin. I actually think she looks better in her before picture. Of course what I think doesn't matter but still sometimes it seems we venerate thinness a little too much. According to her blog she is eating primarily 8 1/4 pound burgers from McDonald's every day. This really doesn't sound all that healthy to me but what do I know? She is certainly free to eat however she pleases but she simply doesn't seem like someone who we should be emulating.

jean
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  #113   ^
Old Sat, Oct-14-17, 07:05
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,422
 
Plan: P:E=>1 (Q3-22)
Stats: 168/100/82 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 79%
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this article she wrote: http://myzerocarblife.jamesdhogan.c...es-weight-gain/

Interesting story there! Sounds like she almost calorie restricted herself to an early end, by that I mean self induced starvation, then she found meat and fat, gained weight and felt better.

Eating LCHF is no guarantee of weight loss or even good health. Sounds like she found a "healthy" weight after self-flagellation by reduced calorie intake and the punishment incurred to the body by over exercise w/o commensurate nutrition to repair damage.

I see that in some stories here; Start with a bang, stall, cut caloires, start exercising, obsess with the scale, cut more calories, exercise more harder and more often = result if you don't break down physically or mentally...

Thin, Weak and Hungry.

That zero crowd she was listening to had some good advice and said be patient and keep eating - from the story it sounds like she gained weight and health. Good Lesson Zero Carb, Wow indeed. Thanks NEMarvin !
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  #114   ^
Old Sat, Oct-14-17, 07:15
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

http://myzerocarblife.jamesdhogan.c...wns-cover-girl/

She looks less thin here in this post about her appearing in Woman's World in June.

Also there's a more recent picture on her twitter;

https://twitter.com/kelly_hogan_zc?...carbs-ten-years

in a Wonder Woman tshirt with her daughter, you can see she's not quite so gaunt as she appears in that Diet Doctor post.

I'm not crazy about the no need to exercise message. You can't really establish that that's true without some measure of spontaneous exercise, some people who don't officially exercise get more real exercise than people with structured programs. I don't think the model should be bed rest and meat. Taubes wrote about physicians a hundred years or so ago telling obese patients that bed rest would accelerate weight loss. It is a good way to rid yourself of unsightly muscle.
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  #115   ^
Old Sat, Oct-14-17, 07:28
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,422
 
Plan: P:E=>1 (Q3-22)
Stats: 168/100/82 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 79%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
...some people who don't officially exercise get more real exercise than people with structured programs.

On this I agree as I believe I'm an extreme example of it. I think of exercise as means to and end and that end being enhancement or supporting the body' and mind's needs outside the gymnasium.

However, I know people that workout for the sake of working out and enjoy the hell out of it. So some of their mind/body needs are inside the gym I guess
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  #116   ^
Old Sat, Oct-14-17, 07:47
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,573
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/150/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: NE WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
I'm not crazy about the no need to exercise message.


Nor am I. I believed the no exercise - eat all you want as long as it's lchf message - or at least how I understood it. I've found that for a person like me who doesn't do a lot during the day exercise is necessary. It mostly helps my bg readings. I started exercising again after not doing it for months & my fbg is below 100 every day, not just once in a while.

And my muscles are stronger so I can do more around the farm without needing to ask my husband for help. A couple years ago I couldn't push more than 1 wheelbarrow load of manure to the compost pile - now I can do up to 6 - I run out of manure to move at that point. I think I could do more if needed.
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  #117   ^
Old Sat, Oct-14-17, 08:30
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 14,608
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
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Even tuberculosis patients, back when “curing” included a lot of bed rest, were encouraged to do a certain amount of gentle strolling. Which we now know is vital to keep the lymphatic system circulating; it has no mechanism to do that other than our movement.
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  #118   ^
Old Sat, Oct-14-17, 09:40
PaCarolSue PaCarolSue is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 593
 
Plan: Reduced carb
Stats: 217/189/150 Female 5ft 2 inches
BF:lots/lots/less
Progress: 42%
Location: USA
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Just once in my life I would like to have someone say I look gaunt, or too thin. LOL
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  #119   ^
Old Sun, Nov-19-17, 11:08
Whirrlly's Avatar
Whirrlly Whirrlly is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 6,613
 
Plan: Zero Carb!
Stats: 234/182/170 Female 68
BF:
Progress: 81%
Location: Southeast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaCarolSue
Just once in my life I would like to have someone say I look gaunt, or too thin. LOL


if a zero carb eater like me you will never get that and who wants that? both are negative....TOO thin is sickly and gaunt is just wrong
ZC gives health and vitality and a healthy body to function thru life
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  #120   ^
Old Sun, Nov-19-17, 11:16
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,573
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/150/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: NE WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaCarolSue
Just once in my life I would like to have someone say I look gaunt, or too thin. LOL


I got to that point for a couple of years way back when I was in my late 20s, but I thought I looked fantastic! I smoked too much, had ulcers that made me throw up a lot, & ate horribly - I wouldn't want to go thru that again.
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