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  #1   ^
Old Tue, Aug-04-20, 07:52
Kristine's Avatar
Kristine Kristine is offline
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Plan: Primal/P:E
Stats: 171/146/150 Female 5'7"
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Progress: 119%
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Default "Are You Hungry?" Essay by Amy Eiges

"Are You Hungry?" Essay by Amy Eiges

Amy Eiges is a health coach whose essay here on hunger, shame and failure vs long-term success really hits home with me. I LOVE the graphic on success. Read it and do it. She said it better than I could.

This reminds me of NancyLC's saying that I had in my sig for a long time regarding how will-power doesn't work: "If your solution to failure is 'I'll try harder next time', you fail at failing."

Corollary: Don't bother calling it a "new WOL" or "lifestyle change" if you shop, cook, spend your time, spend your money and engage in relationships the same way you always have. Will power is not a lifestyle change."

Quote:
“Are you hungry?”

I’ve heard it said that some cultures have many words for snow, speaking to their collective experience and need to describe variations that other cultures don’t notice, and I believe that same concept could be applied to the word ‘hunger’ for those of us that struggle with food issues and are learning to deal with them.

When I first heard Tro’s question I assumed for a long time that he meant physical hunger. Having done some work around intuitive eating over the years, I have a pretty finely tuned sense of this: eat until reasonably full. Ok, I can do that.

But when I am midway thru a meal and check-in with that physical hunger, and the answer comes back that I am satiated – why do I keep eating? Why am I annoyed that I’m no longer physically hungry? What is that hunger called? (...) There’s the hunger brought on by stress or a few sleepless nights. The hunger driven by the psychological desire to numb uncomfortable feelings (or happy ones, or boredom!). Factor in social/family gatherings, non-stop eating/food culture and societal constructs that have become habits (like 3 meals plus 2-3 snacks a day), and it is amazing we can recognize satiation at all.

(...)We have been told for years that we just need to resist, to “have some willpower.” But it is a fool’s errand to expect this time will be different. Hope is not a sustainable strategy.


(Bold mine.)
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  #2   ^
Old Tue, Aug-04-20, 09:37
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 19,176
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
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Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
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THere is more and more evidence that choices are controlled by outside factors. Will power is not one of those factors.

Imo better to surround oneself with all the suppport to try to keep on plan. That many suceed yet most dont is not a personal failure. We are influenced by the world around us.

We need the world to change.
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, Aug-04-20, 13:03
Grav Grav is offline
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Posts: 1,469
 
Plan: Banting
Stats: 302/187/187 Male 175cm
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Location: New Zealand
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I've personally found willpower to be useful only for as long as it takes me to be convinced deep down that whatever I'm doing is actually working. At that point, the results themselves become the driving motivator. That's assuming that there are any results, of course.

That's the problem with most diets. I would run out of willpower before I would see any results. But is the real issue there down to a lack of willpower, or because of a lack of results? The answer to that question provides a direction for the blame that follows. A lack of willpower implies the person. A lack of results implies the plan.

All I know for certain is that with low carb, there is certainly no lack of results. And if something is just objectively more effective to the point where very little willpower is required in the first place, then isn't that what counts at the end of the day?

Willpower is great for getting you started. But that's about where it ends.
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, Aug-04-20, 16:22
Sniggle Sniggle is offline
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Posts: 370
 
Plan: General Low Carb
Stats: 215/197.2/195 Male 73.5
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Progress: 89%
Location: West Virginia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grav
Willpower is great for getting you started. But that's about where it ends.


I totally agree with this. Our desire to lose weight, whether it be health, quality of life, vanity, our love life, gets us to the starting line. Willpower then turns that desire into action, but continuously having to rely on willpower is exhausting, and few are able to sustain on willpower alone (David Goggins being an exception).

I lean on results, habits, goals and encouragement from DW to keep on track and moving forward. That being said, I have not been very successful at maintaining for more than 12 months..... (Hoping with the son out of the house, a big excuse for eating like a teenager will no longer derail me).

On the specific topic of the thread, I just think that we are still hard wired to eat until full, and our brain wants to reward us for doing that..even if in this day and age most of us do not have to worry about our next meal. We will never rid ourselves of the primitive brain.

Last edited by Sniggle : Wed, Aug-05-20 at 07:02.
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  #5   ^
Old Wed, Aug-05-20, 02:32
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Posts: 14,605
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
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Progress: 136%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniggle
On the specific topic of the thread, I just think that we are still hard wired to eat until full, and our brain wants to reward us for doing that..even if in this day and age most of us do not have to worry about our next meal. We will never rid ourselves of the primitive brain.


I think survival made the hunger impulse very strong, at a time when a meal took considerable effort. Now, we have a strong drive and EASY solutions... we have to use the developed part of our brain to tame the instinctive one.
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, Aug-05-20, 11:25
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deirdra deirdra is offline
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Posts: 4,324
 
Plan: vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
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I've come to the realization that if I am hungry <5 hrs after eating, it is because I am eating the wrong foods (grains, dairy, legumes, sugar or processed crap). For 30 yrs I starved on 1100 cals of low-fat high-carb doctor&government-approved "healthy" diets, often with my stomach growling so loudly that others could hear it from across the room. It took white-knuckle willpower to follow the diet perfectly for weeks or months at a time with few or no results ... until I crashed & burned because I was weak & exhausted and not losing weight anyways so I may as well give up.

Now some days I only eat 1100 cals of vLCHF because I wasn't hungry and forgot to eat, IFing without even trying. My body compensates by asking for more real food the next day or two, which is how it is supposed to work. Now, only under times of extreme stress or frustration with something else in my life do I actually need to use willpower, for ~15 minutes while grocery shopping, to ensure that no crap makes it into my cart. Being human, I occasionally have off-plan indulgences. I usually regret them afterwards because they make me feel bad physically; I don't need to shame myself, just get back on plan and back to freedom from hunger.

Last edited by deirdra : Wed, Aug-05-20 at 11:33.
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Aug-05-20, 11:27
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teaser teaser is offline
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Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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Looking at rodent studies--there's a point at which an animal will no longer risk predators, or will no longer put in effort, to get food. Low-risk, easy access, they'll go for it. A certain drive to eat is still there--but overridden by other considerations. I still think it's a legitimate drive to eat--and in some circumstances, probably would contribute to long-term survival. Head hunger, hedonic eating etc. I don't see as wrong--it's just we've hacked the system with oreos and doritos.

Eating to feel a certain way--I might be a bit of a canary in a coal mine on that one. If I undereat, anxiety ramps up for me. I think it might be because my bipolar brain responds a little differently to some of those stress hormones that are increased a bit in the fasting state. Eating more fat seems to help. Stereotypical stress eating is "fatty foods" but usually they're talking about fatty, starchy, sweet. Maybe concentrating on fat without the carbs can help without calorie consumption being driven too high, it seems to work for me. Even when I do end up eating big, usually I'm just less hungry the following days.
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  #8   ^
Old Fri, Aug-07-20, 07:11
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
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Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/150/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: NE WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
If I undereat, anxiety ramps up for me..


Same here. Hunger makes me anxious. I've found I can go up to 6 hours before eating if I have to (tho I do better if I eat between 4 & 5 hours after the last meal), but if I go over that I'm in trouble - I just can't stop eating. Not to mention I'm in a foul mood by then. When I know I'm going to be away from home at a mealtime, I either pack a lunch or have a snack of nuts available.
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  #9   ^
Old Fri, Aug-07-20, 10:32
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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Posts: 14,605
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
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When I do One Meal a Day in the right groove, it's easy.

I've come to see that as a sign. If fasting or OMAD is easy, my body is welcoming in. If I keep getting hungry signals, the time is not right.

I let my body dictate to me. Not, as for so long, me trying to dictate to my body.
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  #10   ^
Old Fri, Aug-07-20, 13:59
Grav Grav is offline
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Posts: 1,469
 
Plan: Banting
Stats: 302/187/187 Male 175cm
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Progress: 100%
Location: New Zealand
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I'm with you, Werebear. I do OMAD most days during the week now, but it's not a hard and fast rule for me. If I'm hungry at lunchtime, then I'll still have lunch. It doesn't happen as often anymore, but I'm still not bothered by it at all when it does.
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  #11   ^
Old Sat, Aug-08-20, 14:20
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Jezibelle Jezibelle is offline
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Posts: 8
 
Plan: LC Paleo
Stats: 210/181/140 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 41%
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Atomic Habits by James Clear is a really good book that I think applies to this (along with every other thing). There are so many pieces I can think of: changing your mindset to look at yourself AS the type of person you want to be, not someone who is *going to* become that type of person. You're not going to *become* someone who eats well later when you have that willpower. You aren't going to become someone who eats well when you're thin. You are that person *now*, willpower has nothing to do with it, and neither does the weight loss. It's a behavior, and the weight loss is just something that come with the behavior. Focusing on the action, not the outcome. Focusing on the repetition of the behavior, *no matter* the outcome. Creating the pattern of the behavior, even if it's a TINY little thing that takes next to no time, you're still building those neuropathways that cement these changes as permanent. Obviously, I can't reiterate the entire book as succinctly as I'd love to, but, anyway, highly recommended. It's changed my mindset on how I deal with pretty much everything.
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