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  #1   ^
Old Thu, Jan-05-06, 12:31
harry1 harry1 is offline
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Posts: 104
 
Plan: Low Carb/ Maybe Zero Carb
Stats: 220/175/175 Male 6'3''
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default Question about Insulin and Amylase

O.k. guys ..i low carb for health reasons not for weight loss but were on the same team . High carbing for 20 yrs gave me neuropathy (feet) however some reading im doing says we don't need any carbs to survive so just out of curiosity why do we make ''Insulin'' and also why does our Saliva produce ''Amylase'' if our body's were not meant to have carbs !! Im really curious about this !! thanks again !!
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  #2   ^
Old Thu, Jan-05-06, 12:54
Wyvrn's Avatar
Wyvrn Wyvrn is offline
Dog is my copilot
Posts: 1,448
 
Plan: paleo/lowcarb
Stats: 210/162/145 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 74%
Location: Olympia, WA
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Having the ability to obtain energy from carbohydrates would enhance survival in times when higher quality food (meat) is unavailable.

Wyv
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  #3   ^
Old Thu, Jan-05-06, 13:15
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,868
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
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Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Its more a question of how much carbs people are eating. They're probably eating far more than they ever have in history, and of the sort that can't be digested well by many people
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  #4   ^
Old Thu, Jan-05-06, 13:25
ysabella's Avatar
ysabella ysabella is offline
Don't Call Me Sugar
Posts: 4,209
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 293/287/230 Female 65 inches
BF: :^( :^| :^)
Progress: 10%
Location: Auburn, WA
Default

Who says we're not meant to have carbs? Even meat has some carbs in it.

We have enzymes in our bodies to handle proteins, carbs, and fats alike.
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  #5   ^
Old Thu, Jan-05-06, 15:23
Bat Spit Bat Spit is offline
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Plan: paleo-ish
Stats: 482/400/240 Female 68 inches
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Progress: 34%
Location: DC Area
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I think it isn't so much 'can't have them' as 'don't require them to sustain life'.

Certainly humans are omnivors and able to eat just about anything. If we have to, we can get everything we need from meat and fat, if we're willing to eat eyeballs, hearts, and other things that westerners don't generally eat.

Or, we can get them from fresh veggies and fruits.

The question comes down to how many carbs is ideal, which I will leave as an excersize for another discussion. It is generally agreed on this forum that highly refined carbohydrates like white flour, white rice, white potatos and white sugar, are completely unnecessary and harmful to humans.
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  #6   ^
Old Thu, Jan-05-06, 15:47
ceberezin ceberezin is offline
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Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 155/140/140 Male 68
BF:18%
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Insulin has many other uses besides lowering blood sugar. In fact, that is one of its minor jobs. Its main job is to help us store nutrients and energy. As Rosedale points out, insulin is the first hormone, present in almost all animal organisms. As such, most of the other hormones in our bodies are derived directly or indirectly from insulin. We need insulin to survive, but our health requires that we get the necessary insulin reactions with the least amount of insulin possible circulating in our tissues.

Another interesting point is that while there are a number of hormones that will raise blood sugar, only one hormone, insulin, will lower it. The lack of redundancy for this function suggests that, in evolutionary terms, lowering blood sugar was never terribly important for the survival of our species because carbohydrates were not an important part of our diet.
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  #7   ^
Old Thu, Jan-05-06, 15:54
eepobee's Avatar
eepobee eepobee is offline
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Plan: lc
Stats: 00/00/00 Male 00
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Progress: 106%
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we don't need carbs, we need glucose; albeit in small amounts (approx. 100 g/d, but less once organs/tissues have adapted to the use of ketones for energy). of course, this amount of glucose can be supplied by the liver through gluconeogenesis, making the consumption of carbs entirely unneccesary.
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  #8   ^
Old Thu, Jan-05-06, 16:00
eepobee's Avatar
eepobee eepobee is offline
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Plan: lc
Stats: 00/00/00 Male 00
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humans don't have amylase because we need it. humans have amylase because somewhere in our ancestoral past, those who were able to better digest a variety of sources of nutrients had an advantage in terms of reproducing.
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  #9   ^
Old Thu, Jan-05-06, 16:19
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
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Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eepobee
we don't need carbs, we need glucose; albeit in small amounts (approx. 100 g/d, but less once organs/tissues have adapted to the use of ketones for energy). of course, this amount of glucose can be supplied by the liver through gluconeogenesis, making the consumption of carbs entirely unneccesary.


True, but one would still require insulin to get that glucose from the blood stream into the cells to be used for energy. There are a few cells in the body that can only utilize glucose for energy, specifically those without mitochondria. The rest do just dandy (and some actually prefer) ketone bodies and fatty acids for fuel.
Keep in mind that just because we don't need carbs to survive (that's a rather minimal standard, isn't it?), doesn't mean that we should never eat any of them. Humans are omnivores, meaning neither strictly carnivore nor herbivore but eating foods from both groups. IMO it's only in that we humans eat like it's the peak of harvest time year round that we have gotten ourselves in a muddle metabolically.
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  #10   ^
Old Thu, Jan-05-06, 17:02
eepobee's Avatar
eepobee eepobee is offline
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Plan: lc
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Progress: 106%
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Quote:
True, but one would still require insulin to get that glucose from the blood stream into the cells to be used for energy.
right, but the op was equating the function of insulin with eating carbs, not utilizing glucose.
Quote:
Humans are omnivores, meaning neither strictly carnivore nor herbivore but eating foods from both groups.
humans are ominvores because we can eat both animal and plant foods. this is probably a big reason we were so successful in almost all environments.but we can not only survive without carbs (especially with the availability of other options now), but can thrive without them.
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  #11   ^
Old Thu, Jan-05-06, 19:19
harry1 harry1 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 104
 
Plan: Low Carb/ Maybe Zero Carb
Stats: 220/175/175 Male 6'3''
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

Thankyou everyone !! Okay so Insulin is needed to shuttle glucose into the cell, is it also needed to shuttle Ketones into the cell also .
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  #12   ^
Old Thu, Jan-05-06, 20:09
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
Default

Quote:
Okay so Insulin is needed to shuttle glucose into the cell, is it also needed to shuttle Ketones into the cell also .


No, ketones do not require insulin to enter the cell.
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  #13   ^
Old Thu, Jan-05-06, 22:12
harry1 harry1 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 104
 
Plan: Low Carb/ Maybe Zero Carb
Stats: 220/175/175 Male 6'3''
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa N
No, ketones do not require insulin to enter the cell.

Thankyou Lisa !!
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  #14   ^
Old Fri, Jan-06-06, 15:46
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ItsTheWooo ItsTheWooo is offline
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Plan: My Own
Stats: 280/118/117.5 Female 5ft 5.25 in
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry1
O.k. guys ..i low carb for health reasons not for weight loss but were on the same team . High carbing for 20 yrs gave me neuropathy (feet) however some reading im doing says we don't need any carbs to survive so just out of curiosity why do we make ''Insulin'' and also why does our Saliva produce ''Amylase'' if our body's were not meant to have carbs !! Im really curious about this !! thanks again !!


1) We don't need many carbs to survive; however, don't read this as carbs are necessarily "bad". Humans survived because we can thrive on virtually any diet.
Carbs or no carbs are pretty much okay, but for ideal results individual mileage may vary. Some people do better with very very few, some people do better with more. I personally think all humans do better when carbs are not the majority of calories consumed (since pro and fat are essential) but this is just my personal opinion.

2) Insulin is a hormone that does more than allow us to eat starch and sugar. Our bodies always need blood glucose, carbs or no carbs, and insulin is part of that as well as NUMEROUS other physiological functions. It's really much more complex than your diabetic councilor may have lead to you believe, that you need to scale your insulin with your carb/food consumption (I am assuming you are a T1).

3) We produce amylase because humans grew up eating carbohydrates. This does not mean that we NEED carbohydrates or that to eat few carbohydrates is necessarily bad (unnatural and unhealth).
For example, humans can create their own sugar via gluconeogenesis - in fact, humans can survive without any food at all for weeks at a time. Does this mean food is not necessary? Humans can survive without carbs their entire lives. Does this mean carbs are bad? Nonsense logic.
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