Should I count less the fiber, or should I trust the total carb according to My-P.L.A.N.?

I'm a hungry person. I ate over 1500 kcal yesterday, and I was still hungry. Maybe I should eat more steak... It felt like I ate more when I was losing weight. But I've heard so many nutritionists say that you can't lower your metabolism by eating to littel, so I thought I should cut back some. Maybe I just need to eat more.

You seem to be a lot taller than me if you got out of "obesity BMI" on 208 pounds! I'm still obese at 183 pounds. I'm 5'5". If you are taller than me and live on 1500 kcal without even watching them, I don't know how you can say that I should be eating more? You are eating less, and you are taller...

Fny--You are starting just about where I was when I started low carbing. 5'5 and 185. I looked back in my MYPLAN and was consistently eating 1800-1900 calories per day. I also am a hungry person and if I'm hungry on an eating plan it's NOT for me!! I'm a hungry girl!! While looking at my weight loss graph, I lost 4 measley pounds on induction and every month lost about 3-4 pounds--and not in a linear fashion. I would lose 2 pounds and stay the same for 3 weeks (and during that time I would bounce up or down a few pounds) then that 2 pounds would stick and 3 weeks later I would lose 3-4 pounds and stay there for a month (and bounce up and down 3 pounds). Frustrating? Yes! Annoying? Yes! Pissing me off? Yes. But I just stuck with it kept my carb between 30-50 net and stayed the course. It took me close to nine months to lose 33 pounds. It was a long hard haul and many days I just wanted to give up, but I didn't because it was working.

My advice......and you can take all or part or none...

Sit back and enjoy the ride, don't worry so much about the "goal".

Stop over-thinking the plan. In reality it is very simple.

Follow the plan and it's prescribed quantities.

Follow the carb ladder.

Tweak as little as possible.

Eat until full but not until stuffed (I find that 1800-1900 calories fills the bill nicely). Atkins never said that calories don't count. What he said is that they are not as important because low carbing gives you a metabolic advantage.

It does happen. Patience is the name of the game.

Lisa

Oh BTW--this is hard!! Losing weight is hard work and don't believe anyone who tells you it isn't. If it were easy everyone would be thin But, I'd rather lose weight eating real cheese, real butter, real meat, real veg, real fruit--than eating low fat\nonfat yucky packaged foods and starving on 1200 calories. Which one would you pick (and since you say your a hungry person, I already know the answer )

and yes, for us, at 5'5 and 150 we are still considered overweight, but I don't know about you but with my muscle mass at 150 I am one hot tomato!!!

Hi cnmLisa!

I see your point, I do.

I have 2 thing blocking me from sitting back and enjoying the ride, though. Thereäs no ride.

#1 My husband is on to me about being on such an "unhealthy" diet, (and since)
#2 I haven't lost anything (rather gained 1-2 pounds) in the last 6 weeks even if I have been hungry (calories too low?)

I hear so much from all kinds of people. How the fat just melted off them, how they felt warm or hot, how it was so nice not to feel hungry, etc. I'm not seing any of that. So I'm doing something wrong. And being an analytical person, I wan't to know what, so I don't do it unnecessarily, knowwatImean?

You say you kept carbs between 30-50. I have stayed under 20, (except for the My-P.L.A-N. calculator not agreeing with me) As far as I can tell my DANDR says to count net carbs (all carbs minus the fiber?) I have his list of digestible carbs. I can't imagine it being more than 50 carbs even if I did count all carbs. I don't eat any sweeteners, no frankenfoods, nothing but meat/eggs/fish/cheese and allowed veggies and fat.

I hear so many people saying to little food wil slow your metabolism. The others say there's no such thing. Other say "calories DO count" but I keep them so low that even if I were on a WW diet, I'd lose.

Can you blame me for trying to tweak it?

I have added some photos to my gallery. The standing photo is me at 88.7 kgs. The sitting one is heavier but I can't remember how much. I'm muscular, but those photos minus 45 pounds I have no idea what I'll look like. Other than I'll have some baggy skin for sure.

At 1200-1500 calories, you might not be eating enough. Putting you body into starvation mode.

Be positive, you are not gaining weight and you have lost weight. Be less concerned about artifical goals. Try and enjoy it a little more and don't be hungry. Being hungry on low-carb means you should eat, its probably not the insulin drop talking.

I am currently a low-carb failure and gained back much of my lost weight. I got below my goal and strangely enough it did not make me happy. My previous goal was 161, and I made it to 159.

I hear ya!!!

I can tell you this about ME.
A) The fat never melted off!!! I wish!! I struggled for every last oz.
B) I never felt overly warm/hot or cold. I'm always cold (even before LC), I'm still cold now.
C) I'm always hungry-but as I stated, I'm just a hungry girl. I have been trying to get more into tune of what is real stomach hunger and perceived emotional hunger--I'm doing a bit better.




Pretty much. MY PLAN may not agree with your counts because I know in Europe, they already subtract the fiber out of items (yes?). Are you measuring the portions of cheese and dairy? Not to get hung up but Dr.A did want you to limit these items.




Yes, not having a supportive significant other can be a real hindrance. What part of the diet does he think is unhealthy??

and how do you know that the 1-2 pounds you have "gained" is really fat??
it could be just the normal flucuations. Dr. Eades of Protein Power states that you should weigh daily and average the weight at the end of the week for a better idea of weight gain/loss. Day to day flucuations can be anywhere from 1-5 pounds.


Are you still breastfeeding?? It could be with the bodily demands of breastfeeding that is keeping the scale from dropping, especially if you are also trying to kkep your calories low. And maybe you are doing absolutely, positively nothing wrong. Sometimes our bodies are smarter than we are

Lisa

Gee, I really don't know anything about low-carb, do I? I listen to all kinds of people and some say "cutting out carbs limits calories, that's why it works" and then some say "calories DO count" so I try to keep them low. But honestly I've tried to eat less in these 6 weeks that I've been stalling. Except for when I "upped the fat which made my weight do a hiccup, then back to same-ol'.



Thanks. I don't really care if it takes me 2-3 years to get my 35 pounds off. But I don't want to be completely stalled, and hungry just to maintain. My partial goal now is to lose a few pounds so that the winter coat that I bought won't be too tight around my waist. Stupid me, I bought it while I was losing and the size (european) 44 was too long for my 5'5" so I bought the 42 even though it was a smidge too tight around the waist line.



I'm sorry that you are not happy, but I can see what you mean. I have been slimmed down for a short period in my life and I do remember being quite unhappy, low-grade depression. Also I felt bad that men that would never have talked to me before, would come up to me and hit on me hard, not because of who I was, apparently, but because I was slim=OK. I hope you get back on track and can find a way to be happy, low carb or not.

I can relate to that! But what feels weird is that on WW I lost 2 pounds/week. It feels like that was actually more effective, although all foods tasted paper pulp and I was even hungrier all the time. I have worked my way through the body feel of hunger, and I no longer eat for comfort, that's good. When I did I weighed 93 kgs, and when I no longer did I panned out at 87-88 kgs. But I do have a problem with carbs causing me to munch again, 2 hours after a meal.



Ah, yes but I do use the US DANDR carb counter, so I guess it shows all carby foods both with and without fiber. And cauliflower is a strange vegetable. So much fiber compared to digestible carbs. More protein than carbs. I limit cheese, like he said. Although I did not at first (when I was losing) because I followed a Swedish diet plan.



Not supportive is one thing. Daily arguments over what I eat and don't eat is another! He thinks that anything that's extreme will be bad. He does not understand that a normal diet is extreme in carbs! He thinks the fat will give me heart disease, and he refuses to read anything about it. I have Taubes' book.

I don't think the 1-2 pounds I have gained is fat. The last two I "lost" were probably dehydration. Because I'm relatively stable here...



No, not anymore. I actually tried not to lose so much weight while bestfeeding because of all the environmental toxins that is stored in my body fat, I didn't want to give that to my son in concentrated form. I figured I could manage losing the weight on my own. Now I'm not so sure...

Anyway, my overweight has not caused me any other illnesses. I have a slight problem with psoriatic arthritis, but changing over to less carbs has really helped that, even if I have not lost much weight. So I'm not desperate (except for the new coat! ) But I'm going to try to eat until I'm no longer hungry and nevermind the calories. But watch the carbs, like a hawk!

And how do you feel on low carb physically?? Hungry, moody, anxious, cranky, calm, etc.

I guess I'm one of those people that even if I was losing consisitently 2 pounds a week, if the food tastes like pulp I wouldn't care. I like food--the shopping, the cooking, the eating....



Yikes!! Well, I don't know what to say if he is so closed minded he won't even read the Gary Taubes book. That is a problem. But you always have support here!! Since you and I starteded at about the same place, is you want, I'll be a support buddy for you. Eventhough I got down to 153 (and really didn't stress about the last 3 pounds)--some stress/life problems see me back at 163, so I'm back into weight loss mode. Come visit my journal and hang out or, think about starting your own journal (it's only taken me over 2 years to start one )




That sounds like a really good plan. And it sounds like low carb has helped improve a health issue.

Lisa

I feel relatively hungry, but I guess I've been eating too little. My mood is better, I feel less anxious and quite calm. Plus I don't get this low blood sugar which has me dizzy and dreaming about pizza. I would be perfectly happy (except for not losing weight) with the foods I can eat, if I can eat enough not to be hungry. Happy camper... I like cooking and eating, too. But I've become really upset with all the food additives over here. We don't have as many health foods as you guys, because here almost everyone thinks the federal food agency is looking out for the consumer. They're not. There's bloody MSG in EVERYTHING! And everything has added modified starch just to dilute it, so everything is carby! There's no nitrate free bacon. It just doesn't exist.




Lisa, I'd LOVE for you to be my support buddy! I don't know what I can contribute, though, except that I read alot about low-carb right now. I guess "emotional support" is all I can come up with And a foreign perspective, maybe
Journal, I don't know. I'm trying to figure out MyPlan so far, so I think I will look into your journal for a while

He is usually not that closed minded. But on this issue, we have differing opinions. He has a slight belly. When we did WW it just disappeared. He likes potatoes with low fat creme fraiche and lean meat. I find it boring as paper pulp. He, from his own experience, "knows" fat is fattening. If he eats less fat on a heap of potatoes, he loses weight. I don't I just get hungrier and less satisfied. If I say that grains, flour and everything that has to be thoroughly cooked not to give indigestion is not particularly natural to our metabolism, he does not agree. He claims that people in the stone age starved and died young so it cannot be compared. He is not addicted to carbs as I am. He does not need a snack 2 hours after lunch. He has no idea how much eating like this has helped me. And he knows about bad science. But he also thinks everybody who writes about it, has an agenda. They can't be trusted either. Oh, well. I'll just have to fight it out. And read taubes' book out loud.



I think it has helped improve 2 things, really. I was on antidepressants when I started, more for anxiety than for depression, but my anxiety levels have gone down. It has helped with a lot of things, except dinner conversation, and actually fitting into my coat without it being tight.

Hey, you don't have to contribute anything just stop by, chat, hang out--very low key. People here laugh at me--I've been on this forum for over 2 years and have never started a journal (even a cattle prod wouldn't get me to start one). I can always find something to say to a thread or in the challenge (MOMD--I'll explain later), but I thought I'd fnever have enough interesting stuff to write about in a jourmal. For a long time, I squatted in other people's journal--so now I have a journal (I don't know how interesting it will be) but come on in, take your shoes off and relax and squat in mine for as long as you like.



Oh and BTW...your english is excellent and some of the slang and stuff you'll pick up in no time!

This is really interesting to me. I would have thought the everything would have less additives (my wrong perspecrive). I know what you mean though--I have been trying to eliminate things like MSG, modified soy proteins, "flavorings", etc from my diet. It is nigh impossible!! That crap is in everything! I finally found a tuna that didn't have "broth", soy, or additives. I'm trying to limit my soy intake because after some long research, I just don't think that modern unfermented soy is good for the human body.



Anti-low carb because he's never been a carb addict. I guess he just wouldn't let it go in the fact that what works for him doesn't work for you??? Nah!! That would be too easy. Well, I guess I would say that if "no one can be trusted", why does he trust all the science that states carbs are necessary and healthy?? You'd think he'd be distrustful of that too! WEll, didn't they want to burn Christopher Columbus at the stake because the world wasn't flat. And didn't they want to tar and feather Galileo?? Davinci?? and Dr. ATkins too It must be tough to be a forward, independent thinker. How do you like the Taubes book. I haven't gotten my copy yet.

I try to pick up things as fast as I can. It's a survival strategy. I actually stayed in Mississippi for 1.5 months as an exchange student, but for some reason I was more or less fluent in english before I came, only I had a more brittish accent. I quickly lost that! We have soo much english shows on TV here, and only subtitles, so every film you watch, is like englsih class. And I'm just slightly dyslexic, so I find it easier to just listen and figure it out instead of reading subtitles.

Thanks, it feels better to add to somebody elses journal, since I don't know what to write in my own. I guess I could curse the counter-intuitiveness of all of these food logs. My Plan is the best I've found so far, and I still struggle.

People here thinkt our food is spankin' clean as well. Swedes tend to trust the government to look out for us (because we manage to keep salmonella down), but the federal food agency sorts under the agricultural department! And did you know that it's us... WE are the neation that started the new dietary recommendations with all the bread, potatoes and stuff because of ideological resaons. They thought the world wound starve by now (2010) when in reality even developing countries see obesity sky-rocketing! The swedes were far ahead in those days. Even in areas where they were completely wrong!

We have 2 very interesting new books here in swedish, one called (I translate) Dietary advice, economics and ideology, where they explain the "science" behind "less sat fats and more bread". Incredible reading! The other one is called The Secret Chef (alluding to The Naked Chef by Jamie Oliver) where they disclose all the additives in popular foods, what they're derived from, what they do, how poisonous things are allowed, etc. Disgusting reading.

My husband thinks low-fat WW does work for me. And it does. I lose weight. I also get depressed, feel deprived, bored and craving. He's in the "willpower" camp. Sometimes I think it's a moralistic thing. If fat (which tastes good) is not the evil badness itself, then you can eat good and lose weight, no? But that's not morally right. You can't get something for nothing, and If you have overindulged, you have to abstain. You have to suffer. He is not very moralistic otherwise, but I have noticed that food does that to even the smartest people! His rationale is that low-carb is not testes long-term on a big scale. Eating like average joe is (which it isn't because our food habits have changed over the last 20 years and look where it's gotten us!)

Taubes writes in a very flowing way. Good, because the terminology has me reaching for the dictionary all the time. He is very verbal, precise and to the point. Great writer, great research (as far as I can tell) and he sums it up very well. But the book's so packed I'll need to read it again as soon as I finish. I have read everything by Matt Ridley (on genetics) and he is very similar to him. They have similar backgrounds. I have such a stack now. I bought Enig's & Fallon's Eat Fat Lose Fat too. And I have a toddler...

Whatever you want. I just use MyPlan myself.

Eat until your not hungry anymore. But also listen to your body and learn the signals of real hunger. There are other reasons we feel hunger.


I am taller than you. I'm 5'10" (drag your cursor over the gender symbol and it will tell you how tall that person is) but I'm also 60 and pretty sedentary so I need less calories. Added to the fact that my favorite food group is vegetables, and that it was summer when I was on induction and I wasn't very hungry due to the heat, you can see why my cals were so low.Come winter I'm sure the count will go up. Like I said, I don't like being hungry and won't.

I was out of town or I would have answered earlier.

Thanks for the tips, JAnn. I've started eating more. It didn't take alot more to stop the hunger, just 200-300 kcals. I'll se how it holds up.

Whe I try to keep the carbs below 20 on MyPlan I can't eat well. I would need to eat only plain meat. Not my favourite.

By the way. My proteins look high, don't y'all think? 199 grams, 155 grams, etc. It looks like I eat a fair percentage of fat, and I need to keep my carbs down. So is it OK to eat that much protein, or should I start stacking butter sticks?

It looks a little high. Why don't you list your meals for the day?

I agree with JAnn. Looks a bit high to me to. I went back into MYPLAN from a year ago when I was in ripping weight loss mode. I averaged about 110-130 grams a protein a day.

If you want, I can make available MYPLAN for you to peruse if you want. I'd say if you do want--just let me know (and peruse from Oct2005 thru about September2006. After that it went to hell in a handbasket for the past year )