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  #1   ^
Old Thu, Dec-02-21, 11:44
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Posts: 10,039
 
Plan: LC/HiProtein
Stats: 195/156/150 Female 63in
BF:
Progress: 87%
Location: Kansas City, MO
Default Studies--We've Got Studies!

I'm putting this in the War Zone because the topic may be controversial, especially as touching on bariatric surgery. My point is mainly this: when you read a study, or a report on a study, take it with a grain of salt, or common sense, or personal experience, and don't be too hasty.

This study claims that the benefits bariatric surgery are overwhelmingly positive as to mortality. Yes, losing a lot of fat can certainly be a healthy life change. But I'm still skeptical of the overall lifestyle benefits, let alone the long-term success, of people who decide (desperately perhaps) on this drastic intervention.

New Study on Bariatric Surgery results

Meanwhile, in other news, I find this snippet from one of my favorite authors, Bill Bryson--who seems to know everything about everything--in his book, The Body. He writes:

"All drugs come with a mixture of benefits and risks, and these are often not well studied. Everyone has heard that taking a low-dose aspirin daily may help prevent a heart attack. That is true, but only up to a point. According to one study of people who had taken low-dose aspirin daily for five years, 1 in 1,667 had been spared a cardiovascular problem, 1 in 2,002 had been spared a nonfatal heart attack, and 1 in 3,000 spared a nonfatal stroke, while 1 in 3,333 suffered major gastrointestinal bleeding that they would not otherwise have experiČenced. So for most people there is about as much chance of suffering dangerous internal bleeding from taking a daily aspirin as there is of avoiding a heart attack or stroke, but in all cases actually there is very little risk of either."

So...next time you hear the latest medical recommendation, whether it's a daily aspirin, a statin, or some other pill for what's the matter with you, make sure to ask a lot of questions.

If you've read this far, thank you. Be well!
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  #2   ^
Old Thu, Dec-02-21, 12:54
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,789
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Good observations and advice.
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  #3   ^
Old Thu, Dec-02-21, 14:55
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is online now
Posts: 5,005
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Vermont
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkloots
So...next time you hear the latest medical recommendation, whether it's a daily aspirin, a statin, or some other pill for what's the matter with you, make sure to ask a lot of questions.


Not only should we ask questions, we also need to carefully evaluate the quality of the answers. In other words don't believe everything the doctor tells you. Do your own careful research into the quality of the advice you are getting. All of us here in the low carb world have already learned that lesson, at least to some extent.
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  #4   ^
Old Thu, Dec-02-21, 17:47
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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Plan: atkins
Stats: 255/230/200 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 45%
Location: Massachusetts
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My doctor is a know-nothing. I've given up asking anything.
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  #5   ^
Old Thu, Dec-02-21, 19:59
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Posts: 10,039
 
Plan: LC/HiProtein
Stats: 195/156/150 Female 63in
BF:
Progress: 87%
Location: Kansas City, MO
Default

These days, the phrase "do the research" has taken on rather a sinister spin. We all know that Dr. Google can give us whatever answers we want. There's no substitute for thinking.

Over the years--decades actually--I've spent on this forum, I've found many rational and thoughtful people to trust, even while our respective plans and programs tend to go in new and interesting directions.

So, kudos to You Guys. And thanks.
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  #6   ^
Old Fri, Dec-03-21, 12:56
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
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Posts: 1,794
 
Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 235/175/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: Florida
Default

Take everything you read about health with a grain of salt.

With for-profit medicine, the only thing that matters is profit, not your health.

An article about bariatric surgery being beneficial, sounds to me like it just might be an advertisement.

Anything invasive like surgery IMO should be a very last resort, when absolutely every other safer alternative fails.

An article about the benefit of statins could be advertisement for statins.

Remember, the grain people conducted the carefully biased study that told us fats were bad for us, presented it to the AHA with a more than generous donation, which is donated every year. Sounds like an advertisement to sell grains to me.

Just because it's in print, or on video, doesn't make it real.

And that goes for diet books, too.

Bob
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  #7   ^
Old Sun, Dec-05-21, 04:54
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Posts: 13,573
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/133/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 124%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-a-rama
Remember, the grain people conducted the carefully biased study that told us fats were bad for us, presented it to the AHA with a more than generous donation, which is donated every year. Sounds like an advertisement to sell grains to me.


What amazes me is that it would seem that they actually believe their own lies! Pharma executives take statins, 7th Day Adventists (the cereal empire that went after Dr. Tim Noakes) do eat the vegan way they are pressing on us all, and of course there's a constant stream of Vegan influences online caught with cheeseburgers and the like.

Does career/money goals really override life itself?
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  #8   ^
Old Sun, Dec-05-21, 09:30
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
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Posts: 1,794
 
Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 235/175/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: Florida
Default

If you repeat a lie enough times (depends on the listener) it is believed as gospel truth.

For years the ads told us smoking cigarettes was good for us ("Six out of seven doctors recommend Camels")

And then some people just believe what they want to believe like: although we have the teeth and digestive system of an omnivore, and evidence shows that humans and their evolutionary ancestors ate meat, some people believe humans were meant to be vegans, simply because they want to believe that.

It's tough to look through all that propaganda and decide what is true and what isn't. This is further complicated by what is true for one person may not be for another.

All we can do is try things on ourselves, pay attention to how our body reacts, pay attention to our general health, pay attention to our annual blood tests, and hope this is telling us what we believe is true for us.

My parents both died early from obesity related diseases. My siblings are all 300 pounds. I tried a few different things before I found Keto and it controls my weight.

I hardly ever get sick (I think I had one mild, 2-day cold in the last 15 years, and that' sit), I got checked by a heart doctor who says my circulation system is as good as a healthy person 2/3 my age, I had back x-rays taken when I hurt myself (all healed now) and my brother-in-law who is a world-famous among other doctors orthopedic surgeon says my spine is in surprisingly good shape for someone my age. Plus my annual blood work comes in either in the normal range for someone my age or in a couple of categories, extremely close to it.

This reinforces what I know by 'listening' to my body. High fat, moderate protein, low carbs, and vitamin pills works for me.

Will it work for my neighbor? I have no idea.

Bob
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  #9   ^
Old Mon, Dec-06-21, 08:08
Jaz66's Avatar
Jaz66 Jaz66 is offline
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Posts: 3,262
 
Plan: KETO
Stats: 225/205/160 Female 5'5
BF:
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Oh- man do I want to jump in on this on. I AM a healthcare provider (nurse) and have seen things that people would not believe for the love of greed and money. People in their most vulnerable come to us and expect a truthful path. Instead they get pills pushed by high Pharma, procedures they do not need and what the hell- lets do XYZ because we can.

Bariatric surgery is a last resort only- yet it is a HUGE money maker and people fail it unless they change their mindset (free). Add that to the PROCESS of bariatric surgery to begin with. You need to liquid fast and LOSE weight PRIOR to surgery to shrink your stomach.
Yet we never tell people they have the power to change.

I worked in a diabetic clinic and would go and tell people about Keto and got called out for it. After all why in the world would we truly want to HEAL and CURE. No $$$$$$$ -
I was ask once if there will be a cure for cancer. I am sure what I said would get me booted from here.

Yeah- I am a nurse still. I am bucking the system all the way. I tell people TRUTH. Thankfully my field has options where those of us "rogue" people can make a difference!

Yup and yup on studies- always look at who is funding it. Always!
Ok- will put soap box away!

Carry on warriors!
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  #10   ^
Old Mon, Dec-06-21, 08:43
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,789
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaz66
Oh- man do I want to jump in on this on. I AM a healthcare provider (nurse) and have seen things that people would not believe for the love of greed and money. People in their most vulnerable come to us and expect a truthful path. Instead they get pills pushed by high Pharma, procedures they do not need and what the hell- lets do XYZ because we can.

Bariatric surgery is a last resort only- yet it is a HUGE money maker and people fail it unless they change their mindset (free). Add that to the PROCESS of bariatric surgery to begin with. You need to liquid fast and LOSE weight PRIOR to surgery to shrink your stomach.
Yet we never tell people they have the power to change.

I worked in a diabetic clinic and would go and tell people about Keto and got called out for it. After all why in the world would we truly want to HEAL and CURE. No $$$$$$$ -
I was ask once if there will be a cure for cancer. I am sure what I said would get me booted from here.

Yeah- I am a nurse still. I am bucking the system all the way. I tell people TRUTH. Thankfully my field has options where those of us "rogue" people can make a difference!

Yup and yup on studies- always look at who is funding it. Always!
Ok- will put soap box away!

Carry on warriors!

No need to stow the soapbox. This is a common theme on this forum, and you have described the conflicts in an individual's attempt to achieve health very articulately. In my visits to the doctor over the past few years, I have witnessed these dynamics. When one reaches a certain age, a physician in the USA is obligated to suggest statins regardless of underlying conditions. This is the pharma influence that's become so powerful, around which many of the tenets that represent the today's standards of care are developed.

The mostly unspoken issue with bariatric surgery is that many patients don't change their lifestyles after surgery and, over time post surgery, regain the weight after an extremely invasive and risky procedure. The power comes from adjusting one's lifestyle, but it's represented as complicated or communicated as a radical change from normal eating and activity, and deemed by "health experts" as unsustainable. The dirty secret is that lifestyle adaptations are not expensive, and if well planned, don't become a sacrifice leading to cravings once one has adapted.
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  #11   ^
Old Mon, Dec-06-21, 16:55
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,794
 
Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 235/175/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: Florida
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaz66
<...snip...>
Bariatric surgery is a last resort only-<...>


IMO any invasive surgery is last resort only.

Surgery is good for when you have exhausted all other possibilities or in an emergency situation when there is no time or method to help the patient any other way.

I'm not a doctor or nurse, it just seems common sense to me.

Bob
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  #12   ^
Old Tue, Dec-07-21, 12:49
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Posts: 13,573
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/133/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 124%
Location: USA
Default

From reading online memoirs, I gather the honeymoon period lasts about a year, and then the nerves regenerate and hunger returns.

It was based on the fact that people would get stomach surgery for whatever reason, but always lost weight because their appetite would vanish for a long period. They are doing it with no greater scientific justification than that.

As I like to say, I could lock them in low carb jail and get better results.
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  #13   ^
Old Tue, Dec-07-21, 14:33
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Posts: 10,039
 
Plan: LC/HiProtein
Stats: 195/156/150 Female 63in
BF:
Progress: 87%
Location: Kansas City, MO
Default

I ordered that Bill Bryson book, The Body, because I couldn't put my hands on the copy I remember reading awhile ago. It's good entertainment, with a ton of "information" which often concludes, "No one knows."

Meanwhile, I'm taking my own advice and stopping the daily use of a couple of pills I think have served their purpose. I'll let you know in a month or so if that was a good decision or not.
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