Quote:
Originally Posted by Lozzz
Thank you so much, ItsTheWooo, for taking the time to type such a detailed reply to my post.
You are spot on with the problem of maintaining. I have recognised that I'm underweight and looking scarily emaciated but I don't know how to tackle it.
|
Hi Lozz,
I was afraid my original post was too emotional and might have put you off; I am glad this is not the case.
I am also glad that you do realize you've went to far and are now very underweight; you sound a lot like where I was before... just so scared of how to eat to maintain and too afraid to really change anything.
Quote:
For example, I don't know what to increase my calories to and at what rate. Or if I need to increase my calories AND carbs. You see, I always thought that increasing my carbs would make me maintain. I was reading this forum and people's posts of them consuming 1200 calories but completely disregarding that they are not as thin as me. This didn't seem to sink in.
|
Regarding how to maintain.
The thing about using the carb-ladder atkins-esque model for maintaining, is that it only works
when a solid foundation of normal eating is already present. Or in other words, it assumes one is already eating generously from fat and protein. You are NOT. If one has so thoroughly divorced mind from body need as you (and I) had done, increasing carbs incrementally
is not sufficient to stop weight loss or restore normal weight.
Lozz speaking from experience here the best thing I can tell you about eating is to
start listening to your body . Where you are, in your present state you may not even realize it but your body has very little say over intake. When I was where you are, I thought I was eating “enough”. I didn’t realize the extent of how my mind was controlling the body. Your mind is controlling your body. Your body is screaming for food, you just aren't listening. Only now that I am gaining by eating more freely can I hear my body. I find myself doing what normal people do, and taking signs like emptiness, lethargy, coldness, and weakness as
impulses for food intake. Schedules, rituals, and external regulators of intake
no longer predominately determine intake. Now, a modicum of control/shape to eating is useful if one tends toward weight problems.
But the degree that you and I employ control of eating is so extreme that we went too far and completely ignored the body. We are split in two to the point where we don’t even recognize hunger or obvious signs of malnourishment.
Much like you, I was genuinely baffled as to why I felt so low all the time. Like you, I was mystified by depression, aching body (joints), palpitations, dizziness, amenorrhea, difficulty perceiving hunger and difficulty feeling satiety after eating (among other symptoms). I ate only to “rules”: laws and rituals determined my consumption; this was safe you see. The body was unruly and not to be trusted, but I knew order was my salvation. Extreme views & methodologies get extreme results. Result? I had so wholly divorced body need and eating, combined with irrational perceptions of what constitutes “adequate intake”, and I couldn’t possibly know… just as you cannot possibly realize
all your symptoms come from emaciation and under eating at this present moment in time.
I read about your depression, your amenorrhea, your pain from exercise… dear these are classic signs of wasting from malnourishment. You are eating too little. You’re depressed because this is a classic symptom of low food energy. Energy intake (food) is essential to maintain neurochemical regulation; depression is common in semistarvation. You hurt when you move because you don’t have energy to fuel your body. Your body is eating muscles and the fat left to sustain itself, producing the aches and pains. Unlike when you were heavy, you no longer have the fat stores to compensate so it’s freaking out by shutting down. I read you became amenorrhetic at a higher, normal weight. So did I: I was 145 when I completely lost it. Nutrition status as well as original weight play a role in when you become amenorrhetic; but please do know it is most definitely a food/weight thing. Your body is deteriorating and you MUST start listening to it when it asks for food.
Quote:
At the moment, I don't allow myself any treats. I've cut out coffee, sugar free jelly, low-carb sauces, low-carb bread - anything processed basically.
|
Oh I’m sure of it.
It – the fear driven obsession and cathartic compulsion - will get worse the more you hold on.
Right now your intake is dictated by mind-rules: food laws. These make you feel safe. You can only take this many splenda packets. That division is a serving. I looked at food and saw slivers of dividsions. A meal is this many calories, not a bit more. Calories must be divded among the day with a logic, too: breakfast lunch and dinner should be no more than 300 calories each and snacks no more than 150, etc. Everything had an order and a logic.
Do you see where I'm going with this?
Your eating is nothing but a cluster of rules and that's why you can't maintain. The more you eat to “rules” the less you condition yourself to listen to body need. In maintenance we must start to listen to the body more, and that means
taking a risk and letting go of the rules a little more.
Quote:
I feel like if I let myself enjoy food too much, I'll slip back into my old ways. I also cut out processed food in the hope of losing my stomach podge.
|
Oh trust me I know that fear Lozz. I’ve cried over it before. I’ll never forget one night – the first time I realized I had gained – and I just had this overwhelming debilitating sense of weakness. I felt as if my reality were an illusion. It was like an identity crisis.
You just have to be strong and you have to face that fear. IT’s not going to be easy. It will be difficult, but you have to do it. I continue to face it. Like all irrational fears, the more you stare it down, the less power it has.
A fear only holds power when it remains unchallenged. That’s how one develops anorexia: instead of breaking out and getting rid of the fear-security blanket, they cling to it tighter, give it more power, and it grows.
You must stop it now before you give it any more power. This will take a strength and fortitude of conviction that, for me, was more difficult than anything about losing weight.
Speaking personally, I transitioned into normal eating in a series of steps, and then a dramatic plunge. Here is what I did; maybe you can find some ideas in here that will help you.
First I did baby steps. At first I was journaling everything, I had strange notions of how much is “enough”, numerous rituals and so on.
The first thing I did was allowed myself to eat more to body hunger (scary for sure), BUT I allowed myself to write everything down in my food journal. This lessened the anxiety of increasing intake tremendously.
Then, when I felt secure enough in the knowledge that listening more to hunger will not produce a total loss of control, I began the arduous task of reducing journaling frequency. For me, eating more BUT knowing about it was much, much safer than not knowing at all (but eating less). It is the fear of a loss of control over my weight that held me hostage; journaling was like “proof” I am conscious of weight/intake. Letting go of the journaling was very difficult.
I started this by reducing journaling to every other day. Then every couple of days. Eventually I felt secure enough to let go of the journaling almost completely. I still journaled and counted sporadically but it was no longer the fear-based compulsion it once was; it was more healthy “what’s going on” type thing.
I continued this for a few months. Losses slowed dramatically but did not stop; I still under ate and erred in favor of “empty”. Eventually when I reached a low of 104 pounds, I realized I had to get serious. I made the decision to eat dramatically more than I had, increasing calories significantly.
This was the hardest part and it was very, very panic inducing. Often times I would eat normal for a few days, start to gain, and then suddenly freak and go back losing it. Then I would get up and start over. This caused me to waver between a weight under 110 for awhile.
After enough time of regaining control after “losing it”, my fears lessened greatly. I then became more confident, and ate more consistently. I maintained a weight a bit over 110 without dramatic “Starts and stops” in eating for a few months.
True I was still underweight, but psychologically
the worst was over: I was no longer prisoner to fears the way I had been. I was not and am not totally free yet, but what I have now is like the gentle rainfall in the aftermath of a raging storm. I am out of it.
I am now in the third major step: increasing weight to a normal, healthy level
for my individual body. This is a weight where in which I can maintain it with no adverse symptoms of health. This part of my journey is met with more adversity, but it’s not as hard as the initial and intermediate steps. Presently I am 113-115 and now back at the threshold of normal weight. Becoming normal weight again was another psychological battle (I fear this translates into future obesity and that I am now radically “less thin”).
But Lozz, in my experience you can take solace in knowing that the beginning steps
are always the hardest. Just as when we first started dieting, those first few weeks (or months) are more difficult than the rest of the journey combined, so it is with “coming back” from having gone to far. Letting go of that safe controlled structure of mind-eating is terrifying. But once you go without it for awhile, you realize the fear is insubstantial and irrational. You realize you are
happier and
healthier without it. I never feel dizzy, mood is much much improved, I have good muscle tone, I almost always eat when mild hungry (and always when very hungry), I no longer hurt when I sit, joints don’t bother, muscles don’t ache, so on. It’s so much better on this side.
I can’t say for sure that what I did is what you need to do, but I can reassure you that as hard as it is now when you start is as hard as it’s going to be. It only gets easier with time. You are strong to have committed yourself and lost weight as you had: you can do this, too.
Quote:
I do think I may have a slight problem with my eating habits. I prioritize my stomach over the rest of my body and I'm scared that if I increase my food, I'll gain there first. Will that actually happen?
|
Speaking personally, the first gains were all muscle.
You and I are inverse in our fat storing, I tend toward the lower body whereas you tend the upper. Coming off of under eating my shoulder was a point. I’ll never forget looking in the mirror and seeing POINTS for shoulders. I don’t know how to describe that, for some reason it struck as significant. The back of my neck was a crag of jutting bones. Just bones everywhere.
At first I only gained muscle; my shoulder became more round and firm, as muscle rebuilt. I noticed more definition of thighs. Not much fat was gained, but simply by eating more protein my muscle started to come back.
I didn’t start to regain fat until I really committed to eating more and gaining weight (i.e. very recent days). In regaining fat weight in addition to muscle I can say that it comes back proportionally. I look a lot better at 114ish this time around than I did before (when my muscles were emaciated from under eating for months). Yes, proportionally more of the fat is stored in my “thighs” (which is my dreaded part).
But I tell myself, I exaggerate the extent of this. Objectively my thighs are not huge like I see them, just as objectively, your stomach is presently emaciated. It helps to continuously remind myself that my perceptions are extreme exaggerations. It also helps to counter these irrational thoughts with reality. There is this one picture I have of myself where I look sickly and emaciated; every time I look in the mirror and become alarmed by how much bigger I am, I just think about that pic and remind myself that where I am now is healthy and normal. In other words, I focus on
whats real to take focus off the fear and irrational thoughts that would otherwise predominate. I suggest you make the decision to do the same.
I saw your pics Lozz and trust me dear you do NOT have a podgy stomach. Your hip bones protrude sharply. It is concave. There’s nothing there.
Instead of making the decision to worry about your “podgy stomach” that doesn’t even exist , think about how emaciated you are in general. When I think about my thighs, I counter it by thinking about how my back and chest and arms/shoulders looked, and how I
felt before. It’s no contest: I’ll take where I am now, thanks.
Hopefully this advice will help you deal with the fear.
Rationality is to fear what a blade is to cobwebs. Clear the murk, see the truth. Fear keeps us prisoner; cathartic compulsive behavior is a meaningless delusion. You are strong enough to not need this.
Quote:
However, I've realised I need to get over this and focus on getting back up to a healthy weight. I just want to do it in a healthy, controlled way - not stuffing my face with sugar alcohols and whatnot.
|
For sure, for sure, no one is suggesting you eliminate the good things about your eating. There are many good habits we have learned from this. We’ve learned how to portion control and to resist eating excessively (which is more than most dieters can say). We’ve learned how to delay food gratification for fitness goal.
Still you are eating very little calories.
Forgive me I forget how difficult it is to know what “normal eating” is when it’s so far away. I take it for granted, now, because I’m so used to eating to body need. Let me try to give you an idea of where to start.
Let me use my old meal as an example.
A previous lunch or dinner, prior to “stopping”, would have been 2-3 ounces lean meat, and a big salad with very low cal dressing or cal free dressing, maybe a small smattering of cheese for a “calcium and fat”. Perhaps you can relate to this?
To improve on that, I don’t go and replace the salad with pasta and the meat with fried chicken
. Instead what I do is make little changes. I increase the portion of meat gradually; first from 2.5-3.5, then 3-4, now 4-5. I start to put reduced fat dressings, and full portions of them, on my salads (this adds a substantial 50-100 calories). I leave more fat on my meat. I put dressings of butter, cheese, and oil on non-salad veggies.
SO you see I’m still eating healthy, but I’ve increased substance of my meals tremendously.
Now, let’s take a snack. My old snacks were basically nothing food: tea, broth, pickles, lettuce with sugarless ketchup, baby carrots, melon slivers, so on.
What has helped a lot is replacing snacks with nibbles of real food. I eat much, much more nuts now. This alone has made a substantial difference in my weight AND nuts are healthy.
Another thing that has helped is to clear a lot of the irrational food phobia I used to have. Like you I had strange notions of “food purity”. Now I realize everything is a choice and there’s good ones and bad ones. Like you I used to think that bread was a total waste. But if you look at the nutrition on a low calorie slice of bread, it’s actually kind of healthy AND an excellent way to make meals more enjoyable & higher in calories. So I started using more bread products, too, and that has helped increase cals.
Basically Lozz what you need to do is take baby steps, gradually increasing and adding on to your diet. You also have to let go of the irrational notions about “food purity” you presently hold. I’m not saying eat like crap, but those
rules and
absolute black and white thoughts are the origination of this problem. It’s the excessive, fear-based mind that is what we are trying to get rid of, and feeding the “fear” by avoiding ALL treats and anything that resembles enjoyable (and thus “scary”) food is only going to make it worse.
Quote:
But to be honest, I think the feeling of guilt that would follow from doing that would stop me.
|
I’m not going to lie; you can expect a lot of irrational feelings.
All I can suggest is you try your best and believe with faith that you will make it through it.
I don’t know if you are religious, but for me, feeling faith that everything will work out and I will be passed this one day was very comforting. They say that religion helps people overcome adversity and desperation, and I can say it did help me a lot. I am not religious myself but simply letting go and admitting I’m NOT okay now and that eventually it will pass and I’ll be stronger for it was a comfort.
Quote:
But how can I gain weight without it primarily being fat? I've tried putting it on in muscle with the weight training and cycling but my limbs seemed to get skinnier and not leaner. What I'm asking is, can I put on scale weight without turning into a skinny-fat person at the same time? I don't want to gain back a layer of flab all over me, just a little cushioning so I'm not spiky and bony. I noticed today that my ribs are actually starting to show through where my breasts should be. I felt sick realising I'd gone too far and still not feeling content.
|
Lozz you continue to lose in spite of conditioning because you
are not eating enough food.
Strenght training works to build muscle because it encourages the body to destroy proteins, which are then built stronger during reparation. If you aren’t eating enough or resting for the reparation part (which is CRUCIAL) you will only exacerbate the problem by wasting more and more muscle.
You have to know that your view of the way the body workds
is wholly irrational. It is classic of eating disorders to feel eating more than ones “allowance” will trigger fat gain and an irrational loss of control. This will NOT happen. I wish I could make you see what I see. I see a fear-controlled young woman, a desperate woman, who doesn’t understand eating won’t make her fat. How much more simple can I say it? Eating to body hunger, from healthful food, is not going to make you fat.
Our bodies have set points for muscle and fat. Under eating deprives the body of enough materials to sustain both muscle and fat. When you eat healthy, your muscle
will come back. Lose the irrational diet myth that it’s impossible to naturally rebuild muscle; it’s just that, a stupid myth. All of it will come back the moment you start eating more, particularly proteins. Every bit you gain from normal eating will be healthy body tissue.
My doctor gave me some useful advice. He told me it’s not the weight goal, it’s the
eating goal. Weight and body is the result of eating; eating healthy will produce healthy weight. Please be sure you will NOT only gain fat, and at first, you will gain mostly muscle.
Quote:
I stopped menstruating about 5 months ago. I'm not sure what first stopped them because they seemed to cease even when I was at a healthy weight.
My biggest worry is that I will be left infertile if I don't have a period for a long duration of time.
|
Mine stopped at 145. It’s not the weight you are, but how you are eating and where you started from. You are eating an extremely small amount of food; under 1000 cals (and now 1200) is ridiculously little for someone your age.
I still don’t have my period back so I can’t tell you much about that. But, from what I read, eventually it does come back when body fat levels and nutrition intake rebounds to a point sufficient for menstruation.
Quote:
What do you personally think I should increase my calories and carbs to and at what increments? I feel completely lost and hopeless. I've always been in the mentality of losing weight, and thinking that I need to GAIN weight is proving tremendously hard for me. Weight has become obsessive to the point that it's always on my mind. I'll see someone walk past and instantly compare myself to them. I'll slip into a depression when thinking that if I start to gain weight now, I may relapse and gain everything back in time for Christmas. It's just constantly playing on my mind and I think that is where the therapy I'll be getting shortly may help. Like you said, I can't seem to keep a healthy balance between life and weight loss.
|
I could have written this.
I’ve given you the advice I know of on what worked and works for me, to eat more normally.
As for the fears, as I said before, the best way to deal with them is to stay transfixed on
rationality. I repeat to myself over and over that low carb will prevent me from becoming obese again; even if I totally ignore everything but carbs never again will I be out of control as I was. You still have control. It takes CONTROL to eat in a responsible, healthy fashion. Reaffirm this to yourself as much as possible. Confronting an irrational fear disarms it.
Quote:
I just want to not feel like having the perfect body is the be-all and end-all to everything. It frustrates me to ask myself why I'm like this but yet other women go about their day without feeling depressed because of their flaws. For me, it dominates my life. Also, to let you know, I printed off your words and have read through them multiple times to keep reminding myself. I've definitely got you to thank for making me realise how serious this is. Thank you.
|
Lozz, thank you very much for your kind words I am so glad my post has helped you.
Speaking, again, personally, for me much of the obsession comes from indulging it. Like all bad habits, it fades when you abstain enough. A few weeks ago I had a revelation. I knew it was a milestone. The revelation? Even if I became fat again, it wouldn’t matter that much. WOW talk about progress. Before I couldn’t imagine living if I ‘slipped”, now I realize weight really isn’t the most important thing.
The obsession with thinness, and signs of it, also weakens with abstinence. At my worst I found emaciation envious and desirable, and not shocking and appalling as I used to. I remember seeing pubescent children and envying their smallness. This is was very embarrassing and shameful and hard for me to even admit.
It’s another affect of the fear and obsession and compulsive behaviors. When something dominates your life, even irrational “symbols” of it which are obviously bad come to be taken as positive. So, in my experience, much of the obsession and fixation on size goes away when you make an effort to rid yourself of it. It is a work in progress; I’m not totally there yet but I’m much better off.
One more thing. Before I close I want to tell you, in all likelihood if you were to see a therapist he would diagnose you as anorexic. You meet all criteria, at least it sounds that way to me. I say this not to depress you but to further remind you that where you are is an urgent matter that must be dealt with. Please don’t fall into the tempting trap of complacency and denial. It’s like any unpleasant, but necessary task: you’ll be glad you did it when it’s behind you.