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  #1   ^
Old Fri, Feb-16-18, 15:49
Grav Grav is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,469
 
Plan: Banting
Stats: 302/187/187 Male 175cm
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: New Zealand
Default Building a case for LCHF in New Zealand

Recent readers of my journal will know that as of late, I've been quietly working on exploring options for the advocacy of LCHF here in New Zealand. Well, in an exciting new development this last week, I have just secured a personal appointment with New Zealand's highest political authority in the field: our Minister for Health, Dr David Clark.

I have a few weeks between now and then to compile and present my proposal, and to that end I've already begun combing the internet for as many quality resources as I can find, around which I can build a meaningful case. I intend to lean on/make references to organisations such as the Public Health Collaboration in the UK, the Nutrition Coalition in the States and Canada's Change the Food Guide movement. There will of course also be plenty of links to various publications - websites, books, videos - from a wide cross-section of international authors: Taubes, Teicholz, Volek, Phinney, Lustig, Noakes, Malhotra, Schofield and so on.

My aim is to keep things rooted in science, to let the facts speak for themselves without the need to dress them up in propaganda. I want to keep the emotion out of the argument; I can imagine it will be harder to keep the emotion out of the delivery of the argument, but that part's all down to me.

Where the rest of us come in is this. As much as I can back myself to put something like this together, I'd be disappointed if I were to later discover some useful points that I could have included but missed out. So if anyone here has any ideas on information that could be useful for this little project of mine, I'd be grateful if you could share them here. If you were in my position, what facts would you want to present to someone with the authority to affect real change?

I'm in the very early planning stages right now, but as things begin to take a more solid form in the coming weeks, I may ask for help in filling in what I may identify as particular gaps in my proposal. But for now, I'll look at anything in general that anyone has to offer.

Many thanks in advance.
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  #2   ^
Old Sat, Feb-17-18, 07:55
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Posts: 14,674
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/130/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 129%
Location: USA
Default

Woot!

I would say you have to tailor this for your audience. Always, always: what is in it for them?

So I would focus on the appalling amounts of money spent on people with chronic illnesses and the better, and cheaper, way eating better combats these conditions.
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  #3   ^
Old Sat, Feb-17-18, 11:12
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,427
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

First, Brendan, we are so excited for you and proud that you have taken this step to continue to share your success and advocacy for a LCHF way to health.

To echo what WearBear wrote...get to know the mission of his Ministry. He has an ambitious strategy, not only to improve health but reduce cost.
http://www.health.govt.nz/publicati...h-strategy-2016

Consider reaching out to Grant Schofield, Caryn Zinn, and the other LC leaders in NZ...what do they think are his top priorities? How much does he already know about low carb? They likely know his views on it. He does Ironman https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dav...and_politician) does he know about Tim Noakes's work with endurance athletes.

As for your sources, you seem to have the best on your list already. Dr Westman recently said the PHC.org list of RCTs is complete, up to date and the best clinical evidence since it weeds out epidemiological studies. Dr Clark is not a medical doctor, but a philosopher and Presbyterian minister and politician, so you may not need to get too detailed.

He knows you are not a scientist either, maybe agreed to meet you because he wants to hear more about your personal story, and what you think will work to help the "average Joe" (or the NZ equivalent of that phrase ) improve health. Assume you shared your DD success story...a great place to start to talk about other successes, what finally "clicked" for you. Although we have had Dr Westman and Yancy in the Raleigh-Durham area for 20 years, just in the past few months our local TV stations are doing stories on Ketogenic Diet success stories. It is the personal stories of people who have struggled with weight loss for most of their life that is finally! getting traction. Something in your letter made him want to meet you, expand on that. Terrific news

Last edited by JEY100 : Sat, Feb-17-18 at 11:23.
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  #4   ^
Old Sat, Feb-17-18, 12:57
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deirdra deirdra is offline
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Posts: 4,328
 
Plan: vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
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If NZ health care covers drug costs, getting people off or at least on reduced levels of prescription drugs would result in HUGE savings in health care dollars. Not to mention the reduction in pain and suffering and days off work.
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  #5   ^
Old Sat, Feb-17-18, 14:09
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Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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Posts: 12,456
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/194/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deirdra
If NZ health care covers drug costs, getting people off or at least on reduced levels of prescription drugs would result in HUGE savings in health care dollars. Not to mention the reduction in pain and suffering and days off work.


We need a like button on here
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  #6   ^
Old Sat, Feb-17-18, 15:18
Grav Grav is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,469
 
Plan: Banting
Stats: 302/187/187 Male 175cm
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: New Zealand
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
I would say you have to tailor this for your audience. Always, always: what is in it for them?

So I would focus on the appalling amounts of money spent on people with chronic illnesses and the better, and cheaper, way eating better combats these conditions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deirdra
If NZ health care covers drug costs, getting people off or at least on reduced levels of prescription drugs would result in HUGE savings in health care dollars. Not to mention the reduction in pain and suffering and days off work.

Agreed completely. In addition to Dr Clark being our Minister of Health, he is also an Associate Minister of Finance, so I can definitely see how this angle could resonate particularly well with him. Boy am I lucky to have landed this appointment.

I'm still to do a lot of digging in this area; so far in the course of just casting the proverbial net as far and wide as I can, I've stumbled upon the Credit Suisse reports from 2013 and 2015 discussing sugar and fat consumption respectively, but I hope I can dig up some more statistical projections (particularly NZ-based) as time allows.
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  #7   ^
Old Sat, Feb-17-18, 15:51
Grav Grav is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,469
 
Plan: Banting
Stats: 302/187/187 Male 175cm
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: New Zealand
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
First, Brendan, we are so excited for you and proud that you have taken this step to continue to share your success and advocacy for a LCHF way to health.

Thanks Janet. My mind is still in a bit of a blur about it all even now; to say I haven't gotten much sleep these last couple of nights is something of an understatement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
To echo what WearBear wrote...get to know the mission of his Ministry. He has an ambitious strategy, not only to improve health but reduce cost.
http://www.health.govt.nz/publicati...h-strategy-2016

Yes, I'm already finding myself landing on various Ministry pages such as this as I put Google to work. I fully expact that to get to know my audience in this way will help me tailor my proposal just as much as knowing Dr Clark's own personal background will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Consider reaching out to Grant Schofield, Caryn Zinn, and the other LC leaders in NZ...what do they think are his top priorities? How much does he already know about low carb? They likely know his views on it.

I've thought about that, but for the time being I've decided not to reach out directly to any pro-LC public figures here such as Grant and Caryn. That's not to say I wouldn't appreciate their help if they found me first (it was a nice wee buzz to get a "like" from Caryn on a Facebook comment of mine a few weeks ago), but I do think there's some value in the unaided personal approach.

As you say, he will know that I am not a scientist. But in a sense, I consider that a strength in that I've come this far without any such high profile backing. I anticipate that he will probably be aware of both Grant and Caryn and their views to some degree already anyway, but if a (still-so-far) independent grass-roots layperson like me can come out and echo anything along the lines of what he may already have heard from actual scientists such as them, then I think that could carry more weight than if there had been any conscious collaboration between us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Dr Westman recently said the PHC.org list of RCTs is complete, up to date and the best clinical evidence since it weeds out epidemiological studies. Dr Clark is not a medical doctor, but a philosopher and Presbyterian minister and politician, so you may not need to get too detailed.

Yes, the PHC list of RCTs was one of the first references to slot right in, as was Dr Hallberg's list on the Virta Health website.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
He knows you are not a scientist either, maybe agreed to meet you because he wants to hear more about your personal story, and what you think will work to help the "average Joe" (or the NZ equivalent of that phrase ) improve health. Assume you shared your DD success story...a great place to start to talk about other successes, what finally "clicked" for you.

You assume correctly; my DD story was linked in the very first paragraph of my very first email to his office.

It wouldn't surprise me if you were right about him potentially just wanting to keep things to an informal discussion. We may very well only have time for me to introduce myself, give a quick and dirty recap of my personal journey, and move directly through to the ideas I've gathered through the course of said journey. If the science itself gets relegated to the position of "bedtime reading" then so be it, but that's not going to prevent me from making a good effort at putting something together for him on paper anyway.

Thanks for a great post Janet, some really good food for thought.

Last edited by Grav : Sat, Feb-17-18 at 16:59.
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  #8   ^
Old Sat, Feb-17-18, 16:26
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Posts: 14,674
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/130/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 129%
Location: USA
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Sounds like your personal story could be as compellng as scientific studies.
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  #9   ^
Old Sun, Feb-18-18, 05:09
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,427
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

Virta has a post on the Economic Benefits of their plan with diabetes, but doctors and diabetes educators with the right LC advice and community support groups can do the same. You have proven if you have the right plan for weight loss, the electronic contact they provide is not necessary. https://blog.virtahealth.com/the-ec...betes-reversal/

The Australian CSIRO already has a Low Carb Diet.
https://www.csiro.au/en/Research/He...-Carb-Diet-Book
https://www.express.co.uk/life-styl...ustralian-csiro
Not as LC as Ketogenic, using the GI index, but a step in the right direction. They apparently sell some Dietician service too...not sure how that has worked out. Maybe find more about this one...especially since it is different from the government dietary guidelines and the dietitian association. Made waves when it came out.
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  #10   ^
Old Sun, Feb-18-18, 06:40
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Posts: 14,674
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/130/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 129%
Location: USA
Default

One of my most compelling points is that at my age, most people are on five or more medications. While I am on: none.
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  #11   ^
Old Sun, Feb-18-18, 09:45
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GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Posts: 4,038
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Great news! You didn't mention how much time you have in your appointment and when your appointment is scheduled. I also agree that the most recent trials are going to resonate most strongly. Janet mentioned Virta trial results and Dr. Hallberg's involvement lends this information much credibility from a sound medical standpoint. It's important to cite programs that are making progress in correcting health issues and one to include is what Tim Noakes' group is doing in SA helping people in all demographic categories.

As you have already mentioned, the challenge is to form a simple, understandable message that can be conveyed easily in the time allotted and still leave room for questions and further discussion. The current world health conditions over the past 35+ years impacting NZ including the economic and social costs making so many people dependent on drugs and treatment of what is thought to be a lifetime of progressive diseases and suffering are alarming. These circumstances can be tied directly to changes in dietary recommendations over the past 35+ years compared to an absence of these circumstances prior to that time. When you look at the curves of increased health issues over that time, it gets one's attention.

A definition of healthy eating is usually interpreted differently by many, and it's true that not one WOE suits all, so that is an important message. Getting the poisons out of the diet is a good place to start. You can speak authoritatively about what has worked for you based on the changes you've made. This should be enjoyable, as your expertise coupled with other experiences and studies will enable you to deliver a strong message. All the best.
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  #12   ^
Old Mon, Feb-19-18, 00:01
Grav Grav is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,469
 
Plan: Banting
Stats: 302/187/187 Male 175cm
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: New Zealand
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
Great news! You didn't mention how much time you have in your appointment and when your appointment is scheduled.

I know how much time I've currently been allocated and on what day, but I don't want to get too close to some of the details in case they change. For now I'll just say somewhere in late March; basically I have just over a month to get my act together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
I also agree that the most recent trials are going to resonate most strongly. Janet mentioned Virta trial results and Dr. Hallberg's involvement lends this information much credibility from a sound medical standpoint. It's important to cite programs that are making progress in correcting health issues and one to include is what Tim Noakes' group is doing in SA helping people in all demographic categories.

Indeed. So far in my writing I'm up to about 50 citations, the vast majority of them coming from the 2010s. Both Virta and Tim Noakes are in already and both will probably be referenced a few more times before I'm done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
A definition of healthy eating is usually interpreted differently by many, and it's true that not one WOE suits all, so that is an important message.

Agreed. While I don't have all the details fleshed out yet, my general aim is to offer something that will benefit those who need it, without advocating a total replacement of the existing guidelines so as not to alienate those who are already happy with their health as they are. And I have an idea on how I can do that.

Thanks Rob.
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  #13   ^
Old Mon, Feb-19-18, 04:49
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 14,674
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/130/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 129%
Location: USA
Default

I found Death by Food Pyramid to be a great read with lots of research. It has the best sections I've read yet on individual variations in optimum diets, based on genetic enzyme patterns.

It was really eye-opening to understand that I crashed and burned on vegetarianism because I don't have the enzymes to get protein from plant sources. Someone else, whose ancestors ate a lot of plants and passed down the genes for success on such a diet, could have a different experience... and accuse me of "doing it wrong."

This is why I am so exasperated with all the carrying-on about "eat plants, not too much." Right, tried that for years, didn't work, and now you won't listen to me, either.
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  #14   ^
Old Mon, Feb-19-18, 05:13
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,427
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

As Rob mentioned, what Noakes is doing could translate to NZ.
His foundation recently had a two day conference to train health care workers, inc. updates on the work of his Eat Better South Africa.
http://foodmed.net/2018/02/noakes-n...ure-healthcare/
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  #15   ^
Old Tue, Feb-20-18, 10:46
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,427
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Just posted...new interview with Sam Feltham on 3 major myths of LC that need to be overcome if going to convince your doctor (or health minister) Links to his groups excellent list of RCTs. https://www.dietdoctor.com/three-common-myths-low-carb
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