This may seem weird, and the question is not for me. I have hardly ever been seriously ill and have not had an IV since I delivered my last child.

Someone was talking at our home the other day about having an IV in the hospital for surgery, and it got me to thinking------
What , if anyhting can an LC-er do to NOT get an IV containing dextrose unless it's absolutely necessary?? I am SO sensitive to sugar that I'm kind of thinking that a big dose of IV sugar would turn me into a wildwoman after all the time I've gone with NONE in my system.

Has anyone encountered this? I know(I'm a nurse, but no longer work as one) that it's usually something like D5/ 1/3NS or D5/W--these are part dextrose part normal saline. I don't know of a nurse who's encountered a patient who said "please just normal saline in my IV, if you would tell the Doc. I want no sugar in it?"
I'm sure that it depends on the situation, but I just got a picture of all of US, getting mainline sugar after being off it for so long, and then needing megadoses of sedatives to calm us down.
Seriously, does anyone think this could be harmful-especially in the case of a condition in which it could exacerbate the condition??

I don't wish to upset anyone or get them worried, just mulling over a thought......
yb

I don't know what the doctor would say - many of them I know would just roll their eyes and mutter about patients who think they know best...

And sometimes we do!

I've had the same line of thinking. If I get pregnant this summer, I don't want to have the glucose tolerance test (gtt) done to test your reaction to sugar and possible gestational diabetes.

If I promise to follow a low sugar diet and check my blood sugar daily, don't you think I should be alright if I refuse to take the test? You have to drink pure sugar for that and get lab drawn several times!

Sounds like a test I can do without - I can predict what I'd feel like afterwards!!!

MaryB

I know that *we* don't tend to give dextrose in fluids unless we've checked the patients blood glucose and it is low. Then we keep an eye on it and stop the dextrose when the blood glucose is back to normal. Of course we're not *real* doctors!

Maybe they would agree not to give you any unless your blood glucose was low?

It is interesting to think about what would happen though isn't it! I have a mental image of all of us running around the hospital in those flimsy gowns racing down the halls with our IV poles and a bunch of non-sugared up doctors, nurses and security people chasing after us!

-animaldoc

PS- Real doctors treat more than one species!

Hello Mary,

I belive that they do way to many tests prenantally on healthy women. Don't get me wrong, we are very lucky to have the knowledge and testing that can save lives. For myself, if I have another child, I would not have many of the tests *this of course is if the pregnancy is normal and low risk*

Half the time with the glucose tests they have to do the next level of test because it is borderline or they have a false reading. I also hear this alot about the blood testing that they have started to do here in my area...

Sorry to ramble on... as long as mom is healthy and baby is growing I do not see why you would have to get it done... I also refused an IV when I had my daughter... had to sign alot of forms etc but they did it..

Take care

I am sure Doreen will be able to give you a more qualified answer, but I was under the impression that most IV's were now Ringers and not glucose.

There is so much 'junk' out on the web that trying to find any information is just proving to be frustrating However most reference I found referred to Ringers and to Saline.

Nat

If you get a chance to read the fine print, there is a bit of dextrose in all of them, unfortunately!!! Lactated Ringer and Normal Saline are the lowest and are usually the choice of most Drs, but it definitely depends on the underlying problem they are trying to fix, such as pulling fluid off someone with a hypertonic solution, or rehydrating someone, or balancing electrolytes... You get the pix!

mb

Yes, this would be the picture where I am being taken kicking and screaming to the hospital!

Nat

LOL - They'd be ready to put you in a straight jacket and haul you away to the funny farm - all for your aversion to IV fluid with sugar! What a crack up we are!!!

mb

Hah!!

Thanks for all your thoughts, and you all crack me up, too!

animal doc- don't say you're not real docs! My doggy (yellow lab named Bear) is my bestest friend! (pathetic, eh?) But if he needed care, I'd sure appreciate someone like you. Besides, my equally animal-crazy 15 yr. old son wants to be a vet.

MaryB.- yeah, I thought Ringers had dextrose in dome amt.--can't remember- been 15 yrs. outr of the hospital setting. Should have been a teacher.

Nat- you're right-- Doreen would be an excellent expert on this. I'm thinking they would have to drag me,too.

Tawnya-- I agree- they make pregnancy and delivery a medical condition in too many cases. I always got to the hosp. at about 7-8 cm., and too --occupied--to argue w/ them. And even though I was a gestational diabetic, I'm glad doc was laid back enough (or senile- he delivered my husband- ) to do a blood test only in the 8th mo. of my second pregnancy, when I was big -for-dates AGAIN. Both of my kids were in the close to 10 # range (and I'm 5'1"--you can picture that- an Easter egg on legs) but we were FINE and delivery was a breeze and FAST. Guess I'm one of the lucky ones, but my point is a lot of it is not necessary. A sonogram every mo.??? geez

Thanks again for thinkin' along w/ me and my crazy head!

yb

I'm just kidding! That's the response we sometimes get from our single species colleagues! Of course wild generalizations are never accurate......

Tell your son to study hard and work/voluteer at a bunch of clinics, and tell him good luck from me. I wanted to be a vet from the time I was 6 and it finally happened in May 1999!

-animaldoc

Yogabuff...I certainly hope that they would not give me an IV with ANY form of sugar in it!!! I've been low carbing for less than a month now & sugar (or any other form of it) makes me ill. I took a very tiny sip of a friend's vodka cooler last week & felt like I was going to toss my cookies!!

Animal Doc...I have a 2 yr. old Jack Russel Terror ahem..terrier, and he is like a son to me . Sound weird? I don't think so. when you see what animals give to humans(unconditional love, excited greetings at the door, kisses, cuddles, lowering of high blood pressure, lowered anxiety & stress levels, a general sense of well being....)in exchange for food & a belly rub, it's no a mystery to me why pet owners live longer. Yoga Buff is right. You are a real doctor, and anyone who says differently is well...a few bricks short & should visit an animal shelter for a day.

We are just newly proud owners of one of those little terrors (terriers) ourselves! I TRY not to adopt animals that come through the door (I'd have TOO many), but I couldn't resist her! She's 2 as well and had been turned into the shelter since her previous people didn't have time for her anymore.

She's an angel!

Oh well, this is the low-carb forum and not the JRT forum!

Thanks for the kind words! Nice to know us veterinarians are appreciated!

-animaldoc

It IS a low carb forum , so if you'd like, we could talk abot LCing and JR's without bothering anyone else if you'd like (private messages)-nolly

There are a lot of variables, and no simple answer. In general, if you're admitted to hospital for an illness, and an IV is established in order to administer medications, antibiotics etc, it will most likely be 5% dextrose in water (D5W), since that is what most drugs are compatible with. Not all drugs are stable in saline

In most cases, the infusion rate will be minimal, no more than 500 ml per 24 hrs ( = 25g dextrose). Most often, after 48 hrs, the IV infusion is discontinued, and a special cap placed on the IV right at the skin. This way, only the medication will have to be infused, but again, chances are good it will be diluted in dextrose.

During surgery, or obstetric cases .. 0.9% "normal" saline is the most common solution used. If there's a chance you may require blood or blood products (albumin, plasma, clotting factors) these are ONLY compatible with saline. Ringer's Lactate is also used during surgery, and in emergency cases where rapid infusion of a large volume is required, such as severe dehydration due to prolonged vomiting, diarrhea or shock. Ringer's base solution is saline, with added potassium and calcium lactate (not the same as lactic acid ).
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My thought is, if you're very ill ... running a fever, or had surgery and are in the process of healing, your calorie/energy requirements are going to be very high. Any dextrose will be used for fuel. Since the IV is being infused at a slow, constant rate, any insulin release will also be slow and constant. Unlike eating a meal where there's a blast of glucose all at once. Since it's going directly in the vein, the digestive distresses caused by eating sugar, and the triggers caused by smell, taste etc will be by-passed.

Another thought ... a small amount of glucose is required by certain cells in the body, in particular the production of red blood cells, certain areas of the brain and heart muscle. When we're eating a lowcarb diet, this small amount can be met by eating a minimal amount of carbs AND glucose can also be made in the liver from the protein that we eat. But when we're sick in hospital, and not eating, if we don't get at least a small amount of glucose in our system (or eat protein), the body will break down the muscle tissue for the protien in order to make some glucose.

Sometimes life is too complicated. Here's my wish for good health for everybody; may you never get sick!

Doreen

WOW! Thank you for clarifying that. I did not know that we NEEDED a small amount of glucose & that our liver produced the amount needed from protein. Thanks, that makes sense.


-Nolly