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  #1   ^
Old Wed, Feb-20-19, 17:29
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Default What’s worse, carbs or seed oils?

In this blog post from last year, the author discusses a paper with an interesting discovery:

Quote:
The one study I'm aware of that shows conclusively that excess glucose acts as an accelerant for excess n-6, but it not nearly so harmful without the n-6, in vivo.


To get to the part which links seed oils and autoimmune disorders:

Quote:
Necrosis is a catastrophic cell death (they use the word "accidental", but it's a bit worse than that) that leads to uncontrolled release of cell contents into the body. Some of these are toxic, and some can induce auto-immune responses, which is why the body prefers to use the orderly process of apoptosis.

In Fig. 3 we can see that LDH skyrockets in the PD rats , those that showed a major benefit from n-6 "control" of apoptosis. It appears that what n-6 is actually doing is shifting the cells from controlled, apoptotic cell death to uncontrolled, necrotic cell death. "In these hearts, a rise in linoleic acid and depleted cardiac glutathione could explain this “switch” to necrotic cell death."


By the same author, discussing another paper, The Cause of Metabolic Syndrome: Excess Omega-6 Fats (Linoleic Acid) in Your Mitochondria

Quote:
Two of the most-notable ingredients of the "Western diet" are refined carbohydrates and LA. Others have shown that the obvious ill effects do not occur if LA is not included, or, if it is included, if the mitochondria are given a chance to rest, through use of a feeding window (food is not provided for 16 hours a day).

I think this post establishes that there is a clear cause-and-effect relationship between dietary consumption of excess linoleic acid and at least some aspects of the metabolic syndrome. The excess qualifier is important since linoleic acid in small quantities is found in most natural foods.

The only way to get excess amounts in the diet are: eat oils made from seeds, eat animals that are fed on excessive amounts of grain that concentrate LA, or eat far too much grain yourself. And don't make nuts, avocados, or olive oil a staple part of your diet.


In short, PUFAs are very bad news in the long term, and in the short term, can prevent weight loss, too.

Excess Omega 6 Fats Promote Weight Gain

It is a real pain to avoid it in mayo and commercial salad dressings; heck, anything processed and/or pre-made has too many PUFAs, judging by the labels I’ve been reading.

But it seems like the effort can be well worth it.

Last edited by WereBear : Wed, Feb-20-19 at 17:35.
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  #2   ^
Old Thu, Feb-21-19, 06:16
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s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
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I find the biggest exposure to omega 6 oils are from eating out. And pork rinds lol.
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  #3   ^
Old Thu, Feb-21-19, 06:43
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by s93uv3h
I find the biggest exposure to omega 6 oils are from eating out. And pork rinds lol.


Ack, you are correct:

Quote:
Total Omega-3 fatty acids 36.4mg
Total Omega-6 fatty acids 469mg

https://nutritiondata.self.com/fact...2#ixzz5gAXRpaoK


Thanks for the tip, they must be off my list. And they are so versatile!

However, I have noted that they wind up on my list of things I think I love, yet sit in my pantry or fridge without being eaten. This is another sign I probably should not eat that thing
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  #4   ^
Old Thu, Feb-21-19, 08:00
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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I thought animal fats like pork rinds are Omega 3?

So Avocado is Omega 6?
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  #5   ^
Old Thu, Feb-21-19, 08:09
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khrussva khrussva is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
Ack, you are correct: Thanks for the tip...

Total Omega-3 fatty acids 36.4mg
Total Omega-6 fatty acids 469mg

Yikes! That is news to me, too. I guess that I need to start delving deeper into the nutrition facts of what I eat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
However, I have noted that they wind up on my list of things I think I love, yet sit in my pantry or fridge without being eaten. This is another sign I probably should not eat that thing

That's not what happens when I keep them stocked in my pantry. When they are around they get eaten. For the satiety that fat is supposed to bring, I've never understood why I don't get it from eating pork rinds. Perhaps now I know why. I can eat a whole bag and not feel any more full that I did before I started crunching away. With this knowledge, I'm scratching pork rinds off of my everyday food rotation. Maybe they can be an occasional treat. Maybe.
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  #6   ^
Old Thu, Feb-21-19, 08:19
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Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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I am always confused as to what Omega 3 and 6 foods are.

edit, just thinking that pork rinds must be fried in corn oil or soybean to have Omega 6, don't you think?

Last edited by Meme#1 : Thu, Feb-21-19 at 08:49.
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  #7   ^
Old Thu, Feb-21-19, 11:28
CityGirl8 CityGirl8 is offline
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Almonds aren't doing us a ton of favors, either:
Quote:
Total Omega-3 fatty acids 5.7 mg
Total Omega-6 fatty acids 11462 mg
This ratio probably is true of almond flour that we're baking with, almond milk that everyone is drinking instead of cow, etc.
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  #8   ^
Old Thu, Feb-21-19, 12:06
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meme#1
just thinking that pork rinds must be fried in corn oil or soybean to have Omega 6, don't you think?


I was wondering the same thing. Here, I have bolded the evidence:

Quote:
How are pork rinds made?

Simmering pork skin in boiling water is the first step. Then, they’re divided into bite-size pieces known in the trade as “pellets,” then chilled at least four hours so that the subdermal fat can solidify.

After that layer has congealed, it is pared away and discarded
. This is what separates rinds from cracklins, the pork rind’s crunchier, comparatively more artery-clogging sibling.

Bereft of their fat, the pellets are dried and rendered to remove as much moisture as possible. These individual proto-rinds are placed across a mesh tray over a drip pan, then left in a low-heat oven for about eight hours. Larger operations such as Rudolph Foods, whose Lima, Ohio, factory churns out 100 million pounds of pork rinds a year, often use industrial-size dehydrators. Either way, this is the most important step in making a good batch of pork rinds. Only a small amount of water needs to be retained to give the snack its identifiable puffiness.

Once the skin is dried, it’s ready for frying. Oil—peanut, vegetable, even lard works, as long as it possesses a high smoking point—should be heated to about 360 degrees, and then the slices can be submerged. What little moisture is left in the skin evaporates soon after hitting the hot oil, expanding the nooks and crannies as it fries. The rinds will sink at first, and it’s important to ensure they don’t settle in the pan.


So we all thought it was full of happy lard, when it's made almost entirely of seed oil! Because these mass productions are certainly going to use the cheaper vegetable oil.

Might be worth hunting down cracklins. These are fried in lard from a paleo shop.
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  #9   ^
Old Thu, Feb-21-19, 12:13
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CityGirl8
Almonds aren't doing us a ton of favors, either:
This ratio probably is true of almond flour that we're baking with, almond milk that everyone is drinking instead of cow, etc.


Advice is often to soak nuts, as our ancestors did, to get rid of the anti-nutrients meant to protect the nut. For these tricky questions, I find Mark Sisson is a good source:

Quote:
Dear Mark, Nuts and Omega-6s

Even if the Omega-6 fat in nuts is bad, the positives of the nut seem to weigh more heavily. Whole nut intake seems to reduce markers of systemic inflammation, and inflammation is linked with a wide range of ailments and afflictions (obesity, insulin resistance, heart disease, excess cortisol, etc.). The study’s (PDF) authors hesitate to isolate and praise a single component of the nut, referring to them as “complex food matrices containing diverse nutrients and other chemical constituents.” I think that’s an accurate appraisal of the humble, irreducible nut.

What’s the Downside?

Problems arise with steady year-round access to foods whose historical availability was seasonal and intermittent. If you were a hunter-gatherer, you probably weren’t gathering bushels of nuts on a daily basis – at least, you weren’t finding enough nuts in the wild to eat eight ounces a day. Nuts should never comprise the bulk of your diet, anyway. A quarter cup as a snack every now and then isn’t going to kill you. It’s not even going to compromise your progress. I mean, they’re nuts. They aren’t meals, and they’re not meant to be. They’re snacks, basic supplements to an already nutritious diet replete in animal fat, protein, and vegetables. And in a high Omega-3 diet like the Primal Blueprint they definitely have a place.


Or, mortgage that farm and get macadamias; very low Omega 6s and low carb, too.
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  #10   ^
Old Thu, Feb-21-19, 13:45
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Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear

Might be worth hunting down cracklins. These are fried in lard from a paleo shop.


I see there are more brands but be careful with the Epic brand. I bought some of the meat bars and they were horrible, tasted like dog food. Dogs wouldn't even eat them!

Also something else about Epic, this bag doesn't show Omega 3 or 6 in the fat, although it says pork lard it doesn't say 100% pork lard. I also remember that Epic was using imported meat.

I found this on the Epic web-site:

Pig

Shop Pork Products
Shop Now

The pig is a great example of EPIC's commitment to utilizing every part of the animal, which inspired our Whole Animal Project. In doing so, we are able to use nearly every piece of the pigs we source, including their muscle meat, pork belly, pork fat, and pig skins. As with our bison, we always try to source from the highest quality source available. Unfortunately, oftentimes we are simply unable to procure enough of it and therefore must supplement the remainder with the next highest quality source available. We are always looking for opportunities to incentivize farmers, ranchers, and suppliers to elevate their operations to more EPIC standards. These operations look different for each animal and region but might include things like improved animal welfare standards, holistic management, access to pasture and outdoors.

A prime example of this supply chain challenge is with our pig skins: we source and blend skins from two different “qualities” of pig. We utilize a combination of 1) certified organic and certified humane, 2) certified humane. Both sources are antibiotic and hormone free and GAP Step 1. The feed for the organic pig supply is a blend of organic barley, wheat, pea, soy and corn. The feed for the certified humane pigs is also a blend of barley, wheat, pea, soy, and corn, though it is not organic. Due to EPIC’s desires and pressure, this particular supplier is currently in the process of converting the feed for the second tier of pigs to fully organic over time—which is a major step in the right direction for them and speaks to EPIC’s commitment to working with suppliers to improve industry standards.

Our supply of bacon and pork muscle meat are Certified Humane and consume a blend of barley, wheat, pea, soy and corn. This feed is being transitioned to 100% organic over time as well.

To improve our supply chain of pork we are looking to improve animal welfare standards (particularly pertaining to outdoor access and living conditions).

ALL PIGS ARE SOURCED FROM THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA.

Last edited by Meme#1 : Thu, Feb-21-19 at 14:24.
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  #11   ^
Old Thu, Feb-21-19, 14:41
CityGirl8 CityGirl8 is offline
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Quote:
Problems arise with steady year-round access to foods whose historical availability was seasonal and intermittent. If you were a hunter-gatherer, you probably weren’t gathering bushels of nuts on a daily basis – at least, you weren’t finding enough nuts in the wild to eat eight ounces a day.
Hmm...I would think that they might have been gathering bushels of nuts and eating them as a year-round food source. Nuts dry well and would have been an excellent source of food to store for winter months or as a portable food. Still, 8 oz of nuts on a regular basis as part of a primal/paleo diet probably isn't going to hurt anyone, especially if you're eating other foods high in Omega-3s and avoiding the worst of the 6s like vegetable oils.
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  #12   ^
Old Thu, Feb-21-19, 15:34
Zei Zei is offline
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Macadamia nuts:
Quote:
Total Omega-3 fatty acids 259mg
Total Omega-6 fatty acids 1720mg

Read More https://nutritiondata.self.com/fact...2#ixzz5gCh1WKjk

Over three times as much omega-6 as pork rinds? Is that actually right?! And those nuts are much lower than a lot of other varieties in omega-6's. Frying oil for the pork rinds sounds pretty suspect. On the positive side they're a great source of collagen protein. Not sure what to make of how healthy or not they are.
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  #13   ^
Old Thu, Feb-21-19, 15:47
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Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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Omega-6 Content Various Nuts (1/4 cup)

Walnuts – 9.5 g

Almonds – 4.36 g

Cashews – 2.6 g

Macadamias – 0.5 g

Brazil nuts – 7.2 g

Hazelnuts – 2.7 g

Pistachio – 4.1 g

Pine nuts – 11.6 g

Pecans – 5.8 g

https://www.marksdailyapple.com/nuts-omega-6-fats/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 ounce

Fats & Fatty Acids
Amounts Per Selected Serving %DV

Total Fat 21.3g 33%

Saturated Fat3.3g17%

Monounsaturated Fat16.6g

Polyunsaturated Fat0.4g

Total trans fatty acids

~


Total Omega-3 fatty acids 54.9 mg

Total Omega-6 fatty acids 365mg

Read More https://nutritiondata.self.com/fact...2#ixzz5gCsImehD

(somethig is not right with these numbers??

Last edited by Meme#1 : Thu, Feb-21-19 at 16:22.
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  #14   ^
Old Thu, Feb-21-19, 18:38
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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I guess the macadamias are only low Omega 6 relatively?

I'll cancel my financing plan.
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  #15   ^
Old Thu, Feb-21-19, 19:57
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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Ohhhh that was 365mg which equals .365 grams

This is what we get for not being metric literate

So yes, macadamia are low, as in below 1 gram for 1/4 cup
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