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  #1   ^
Old Wed, Jul-27-22, 05:03
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Posts: 14,045
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/120/150 Female 67
Progress: 143%
Location: USA
Default And now it's vegan collagen.

And I have to ask myself, "WHY?"

In Vegan Collagen: What to Know , they answer my second question:

Can Collagen Be Vegan?
Being a vegan means that you don’t eat anything that came from an animal, include meat, fish, poultry, eggs, dairy products, and even honey. Being a vegetarian is a less strict approach. And other people emphasize plant-based foods without necessarily becoming vegan or vegetarian.

Some scientists say that they’re able to genetically modify things like yeast and bacteria to create animal-free “vegan” collagen. Others are working on ways to bio-engineer it. But more research is needed on whether it delivers the same type of results as animal-based collagen products.

Let me guess: it doesn't deliver the same type of results. As vegan always seems to.

I've now got a reflexive angry word in my head every time I see the word "plant-based." I can't wait for it to go the way of "fat-free" and "green light for lots of sugar!" and other cons that bribe up some health excuse or other.

And while I'll never get over this one, the trial in South Africa revealed that it really is a global corporate conspiracy to kill us all. Eventually.

As a species, we need to figure out a way to divert this power for good
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  #2   ^
Old Wed, Jul-27-22, 08:52
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 17,960
Plan: atkins
Stats: 255/217/200 Female 5'8"
Progress: 69%
Location: Massachusetts

Ahhh, how we mess with mother nature just to make $$$$$.

Eat head to tail as mother nature intended.
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  #3   ^
Old Wed, Jul-27-22, 11:42
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,264
Plan: vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta

At least the "Plant Based" labelling is usually big and bright, so it makes it easier to keep walking to the real food in the grocery store (including plants in their natural state).
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, Sep-27-22, 09:47
JLx's Avatar
JLx JLx is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,199
Plan: High protein, lower fat
Stats: 000/000/145 Female 66
BF:276, 255 hi wts
Progress: 0%
Location: Michigan U.P., USA

I am in a weight loss club in real life where one of the members eats a plant-based diet. She's a good friend actually which means I have to often bite my tongue. She has all sorts of food intolerances and thyroid problems. I asked her once what one of the thyroid doctors (Dr. Isabella Wentz) she reads said to do about a particular problem and she said "eat beef", but she can't bring herself to do so. I feel sorry for her being so locked in it's like she has no choice. And therefore can't change anything that might lead to her feeling better. It's a curious phenomenon to observe.

She is taking collagen these days; I don't know what kind.
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, Sep-27-22, 11:07
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,958
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA

Where are the outcries similar to those heard regarding GMOs??? Could this be blatant hypocrisy, again???
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, Sep-28-22, 09:33
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,750
Plan: Carnivore
Stats: 212/190/150 Female 5'6"
Progress: 35%
Location: Rural Maine

Here's the thing. Every part of a cow, for example, is used for something. These self-righteous vegans are using products from cows each and every day and don't even know it.

The following was taken from a Discover magazine article I read in 2001 (and kept, since it had so much info).

Blow is a list of how every part of the cow is used. Since this article was written in 2001, there might be more or fewer uses. The article

In cell culture laboratories, bovine serum albumin provides a wide variety of macromolecular proteins, low-molecular-weight nutrients, carrier proteins for water-insoluble components, and other compounds necessary for in vitro grow of cells, such as hormones and attachment factors. Serum adds buffering capacity to the medium and binds of neutralizes toxic components in the growth milieu.

Blood is also used in these home and industrial items: plywood adhesives, fertilizer, foam fire extinguishers, and as a chemical fixer for dyes.

Tallows (fat derived from meat, bone, hooves, and horns)
Edible tallow is used in shortening for baked goods and in combination with vegetable oils for frying foods. Also used in chewing gum.

Inedible fats and oils have various industrial uses, including top white tallow, all-beef packer tallow, extra fancy tallow, fancy tallow, bleachable fancy tallow, prime tallow, special tallow, No. 2 tallow, A tallow, choice white grease, and yellow grease.

Fatty Acids Derived from Tallow
Plastics, tires, candles, crayons, cosmetics, lubricants, soaps, fabric softeners, asphalt emulsifiers, synthetic rubber, linoleum, PVC, jet engine lubricants, carrier for pesticides and herbicides, wetting agents, dispersing agents, defoamers, solubilizers, viscosity modifiers, synthetic motor oil, high-performance coatings for planes and cars, food packaging, fishing line, acne medication, furniture, cosmetic gels, pharmaceutical additives, grease additives, toner adjuvants, antifoam agents, explosive additives, waterproofing agents, industrial lubricants, rubber, textiles, ore flotation, corrosion inhibitors, metalworking lubricants, emulsifiers, coating agents, textile sizers, lubricants, plasticizers, defoaming agents, lithium-based greases, textile lubricants, rolling and cutting oils, metal-machining lubricants, detergents.

Glycerin Derived from Tallows
A wide range of pharmaceuticals, including cough syrups and lozenges, tranquilizers, eyewashes, contraceptive jellies and creams, ear drops, poison ivy solutions, solvent for digitalis and intramuscular injection, sclerosing solutions for treatment of varicose veins and hemorrhoids, suppositories, gel capsules, solvent, sweetener, dynamite, cosmetics, liquid soaps, candy, liqueurs, inks, lubricants, antifreeze mixtures, culture nutrients for antibiotics, aftershave preparations, shaving cream, toilet soap, toothpaste, sunscreens and sunblocks, dental floss, bath salts, bubble baths, body lotions, cleansing creams, moisturizing creams, external analgesics and counterirritants, shampoos, hair color preparations (bleaches, dyes, rinses, tints), hair dressings (brilliantines, creams, pomades), hair mousse, hair and scalp conditioners, hairspray, topical antibiotic preparations, hemorrhoidal preparations, pharmaceuticals for veterinary use, liquid household hard-surface cleaners, laundry aids (ironing and dry-cleaning spotting solutions), agricultural chemicals, auto body polish and cleaners.

Collagen (derived from connective tissues and beef skins)
Hemostats, vascular sealants, tissue sealants, orthopedic implant coatings, vascular implant coatings, artificial skin, bone graft substitutes, corneal shields, injectable collagen for plastic surgery, injectable collagen for incontinence treatment, meat casings, food additives, artificial dura maters, dental implants, wound dressings, ani-adhesion barriers, platelet analyzer reagents, research reagents, antibiotic wound dressing, and lacrimal plugs.

Gelatin (derived from collagen)
Food uses include powdered gelatin, leaf gelatin, gelatin hydrolysate, instant gelatin, jellies, confectionary (jelly beans, jelly babies, gums, pastilles), aerated confectionary (marshmallows, meringues, nougats, fruit chews), caramels, sugar-coated almonds, desserts and dairy products (Bavarian creams, mousses, pie crusts, margarines, dietetic products, yogurts, ice creams, and sorbets), clarification of wines (fining agent), decorations (garnishes, galantines, foie gras, eggs in jelly), gel reinforcement for cooked meats to improve slicing, gels for the liquor exuded from hams during cooking, gels to preserve pates, dietetic products (dietary breads, biscuits, powdered soups).

Cosmetic uses include protective creams, beauty masks, lotions, shampoo bases.

Health-pharmaceutical product uses include soft capsules, hard-shell two-piece capsules, hemostatic sponges, biological adhesives, blood serum, binder in pills and suppositories.

Industrial uses include binders for flammable substances in matches, binder to improve the "crispness" of bank notes, coating for microparticles of self-copying papers, glues for paper and carboard cartons, bookbinding glue, electrolytic surface treatment of metals.

Photographic uses include emulsion gelatin, dispersion gelatin, protective-layer gelatin, backing gelatin, baryta gelatin, and modified gelatin.

Organs and Glands
Lungs are used in making heparin and pet foods. Heart is used for pericardium patches. Traches is used for chondroitin sulfate (an arthritis treatment). Tendons are used in elastin and peptone. Gall is used as a cleaning agent for leather, paints, and dyes. Intestines are used for cartilage and joint treatment, sutures, musical strings, and racquet strings. Live is used in catalase and in contact-lens care products. Pancreas is used in making insulin, chromotrypsin, and glucagons. Placenta is used for glycosaminoglycans, alkaline phosphates, and fetal calf serum. Testicles are used for hyaluronidase (cartilage and joint treatment). Umbilical cord is used for hyaluronic acid. Uterus is used in making glycosaminoglycans. Spinal cord is used in making pharmaceuticals, laboratory reagents, and as a source of neural lipids and cholesterol. Bile acids are used to make industrial determents, and bilirubin to measure liver function. Nasal septum is used in maing chondroitin sulfate. Nasal mucosa is used in making heparin. Bone is used for charcoal ash (for refining products such as sugar), ceramics, cleaning and polishing compounds, and for bone and dental implants.

That was the sidebar to the article. The article itself mentions additional uses:

"Heparin, a frequently prescribed anticoagulant drug, is made from the lungs and bones mucosa. The adrenal gland is used in making steroid drugs. The pancreas and the thymus gland are better known to diners as sweetbreads, and the pancreas itself is used to make insulin. Cosmetics and pharmaceuticals are made from the placenta. The fura mater is used as an implant in human brain surgery."

"It has been said, and not altogether facetiously, that the only industry in which some part of the cow is not used is concrete production. But if the concrete is loaded onto a truck with rubber tires and driven down a paved road, or if the production company's annual report is printed on glossy paper, or if the company office uses plywood in its construction, then cow parts are involved. The paper is probably coated with a gelatinous chemical ultimately derived from tallow. The tires and the pavement are manufactured, in part, with bovine fatty acids, and the plywood is bound together with adhesive made partly of cow blood."

Phew! My fingers are tired of typing!

If anyone would like a copy of the article, PM me and I'll send you one.

EDITED TO ADD: And then there are the obvious uses, such as handbags, satchels, briefcases, totes, shoes, boots, clothing, decor, saddles, the list goes on and on.

Last edited by BawdyWench : Wed, Sep-28-22 at 09:58.
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  #7   ^
Old Thu, Sep-29-22, 04:12
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Posts: 14,045
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/120/150 Female 67
Progress: 143%
Location: USA

Thank you, BawdyWench! I recognized the futility of veganism when I realized it would put all the then-dead tree edition books off limits... and the parchments... and modern e-book production uses computers, which uses plastic.

It lets us realize there are things we can't duplicate as well as nature has; a local museum has a science section devoted to this kind of study. I always found organic gardening superior, and had success with roses that way. It's a sound approach to problems, obviously.

Veganism for health is obviously ludicrous. Strictness is not possible if someone lives in the modern world, so it makes no logical sense. Which is why I call it a belief system, where any inconsistencies get rationalized away. Then people might get upset over the different ways people solve for inconsistency.

While I understand veganism for principle... they would actually do more good for animals if they ate humanely-raised meat.

Someone did a documentary which showed how many animals die in the fields which grow the soy and cotton. Why should vegans feel superior because they don't EAT them? That means they were "wasted" which is not part of the circle of life.

Everything in our society was at one time in a cardboard box held together with glue. So my Kindle full of ebooks would still not be vegan.

The words "humanely raised" is a start AND a goal. I don't see vegans contributing. They are actually, like JLx's friend who can't eat beef, hurting themselves: which is also betraying an ethical obligation. I don't think an ethical belief system should be about hurting anyone, including the one who holds that belief.
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  #8   ^
Old Sat, Oct-08-22, 15:41
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Posts: 25,741
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA

My eyes rolled so hard when I saw plant-based collagen that they rattled in their sockets.
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  #9   ^
Old Sun, Oct-09-22, 03:47
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Posts: 14,045
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/120/150 Female 67
Progress: 143%
Location: USA

Originally Posted by Nancy LC
My eyes rolled so hard when I saw plant-based collagen that they rattled in their sockets.

That's me in the jerky aisle. People, I came here for a reason.

Carnivore people don't demand baked potatoes made of meat.
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