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  #16   ^
Old Wed, Oct-28-15, 07:34
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
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Posts: 10,147
 
Plan: LC--Atkins
Stats: 195/162/150 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 73%
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Great article! I especially liked this line:
Quote:
...it may also have to do with an ever-growing number of people calling bullshit on the weight loss industry
Like many others on this Forum, I've been a Weight Watcher. That was back in the 70s, before they offered multiple programs, let alone packaged foods. Eventually, it dawns on you: I'm paying five dollars a week for lousy recipes and a public shaming! Somewhere in my house is my Lifetime Badge. Supposedly they'll honor that--if I show up weighing 135 lbs. (which would be a good idea in and of itself!) But WW has nothing to sell.

I suggest that everyone who participates on this site become a Contributor. You get a lot for your money, including incredible and helpful resources "for free" from our resident advisor, Janet (Jey100). Thank you very much!
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  #17   ^
Old Wed, Oct-28-15, 07:45
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,283
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Vermont
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I remember weight watchers. Even in my ignorance way back in the 80's I knew there was something wrong with people being told that if they just lost weight all their dreams would come true. I didn't stick with it for very long. I think it was the public shaming aspect of it that really got to me. I hadn't yet figured out that their dietary advice was bad too.

Jean
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  #18   ^
Old Thu, Oct-29-15, 03:09
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,370
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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I could never stick with WW very long...been there, but never got the badge.
Too. Darn. Hungry.


Yet I would go back! Maybe five or so times?
Quote:
There's no better example of everything that's wrong with the diet industry, than Oprah. It's a business model that relies on false hope, self-loathing and very short memories.


Short memory!

Last edited by JEY100 : Thu, Oct-29-15 at 03:14.
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  #19   ^
Old Thu, Oct-29-15, 07:21
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Merpig Merpig is offline
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Posts: 7,582
 
Plan: EF/Fung IDM/keto
Stats: 375/225.4/175 Female 66.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 75%
Location: NE Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkloots
Great article! I especially liked this line: Like many others on this Forum, I've been a Weight Watcher. That was back in the 70s, before they offered multiple programs, let alone packaged foods. Eventually, it dawns on you: I'm paying five dollars a week for lousy recipes and a public shaming! Somewhere in my house is my Lifetime Badge. Supposedly they'll honor that--if I show up weighing 135 lbs. (which would be a good idea in and of itself!) But WW has nothing to sell.
I'm another who tried WW at least 5-6 times, usually lasted about 3-4 weeks and then gave up in hunger and despair. At my old office they used to offer a free 8-week WW session for employees and spouses once or twice a year and I joined several times. Even the meetings depressed me. After one meeting the wife of a co-worker turned to me and said, "that was depressing. Let's go have a hot fudge sundae." Yeah that was about how we felt. We really learned nothing about true healthy eating.

I had a good friend who did WW again and again, and she reached her goal weight ~ at least three times! I remember being invited to a party at her house one time when I had not seen her for about 6 months and when I got there I was *shocked*. She looked utterly dreadful. Her skin was dry and grayish, she looked frail and weak. She looked a good ten years older than she had six months previously. I was terrified to learn she was suffering from cancer or some other fatal wasting disease.

But no, she had been on WW again and had lost 70 pounds. She was so proud of herself and of the expensive jewelry her husband had bought her as a reward. But she had looked worlds better at 180 than she did at 110. But she gained it back again, and once again looked healthy.

I completely lost respect for WW when they accepted my sister as a client. She is six feet tall (or 5' 11 3/4" as she puts it) and most of her adult life weighed in the 120-125 range and always looked rather skeletal. When she hit menopause she began gaining weight and got up to 135, and was so depressed at how "fat" she had become that she joined WW, and they accepted her and gave her a goal weight of 125! How insane is that? That's when I knew for sure it was only about the money.

And I can't imagine what folks suffering from true weight issues thought when they saw someone like my sister come waltzing into their meeting.

Nonetheless WW did not help her either and she continued to gain, finally stabilizing at about 145 to look the best, IMHO, that she has looked in her adult life.

But she still wails and moans about how dreadfully fat she is and that no matter what she does she can't lose an ounce. I told her "welcome to my life".
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  #20   ^
Old Thu, Oct-29-15, 08:50
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,147
 
Plan: LC--Atkins
Stats: 195/162/150 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 73%
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Debbie, I sympathize with you having a sister who's skinny and doesn't "get it." On the other hand, I have two sisters (older and younger) who also struggle with weight management. We've arrived at different solutions, but we all know it ain't easy.

WW isn't the only "health" organization that is all about money. January is coming, when Fitness Centers (they seem to be springing up on every corner!) anticipate a rush of memberships. Christmas is the bonanza for most retailers. For Fitness clubs? It's January resolutions! By March, all those newbies are gone.

My sister hires a personal trainer to come to her house. I don't know how much she pays to get yelled at, but it isn't the trainer doing all the work! Meanwhile, I've spent a reasonable amount of money to set up a workout space in my house--mat, weights, bench, tv for videos. I make myself go there for free at least 3 times a week. I think I'm getting a better deal.

From time to time, you may get a Free Lunch. But there's no such thing as a quick-and-easy, one-size-fits-all, medical or surgical or even dietary solution to weight management without relentless personal commitment for life. Even Oprah with all her resources hasn't figured that out.

Cheers to us.
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  #21   ^
Old Thu, Oct-29-15, 09:29
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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Posts: 12,456
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/194/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Texas
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And you know that Oprah has a personal chef but that doesn't stop her from getting into the chips, ice cream and driving though McDonalds with Gail in tow...
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  #22   ^
Old Thu, Oct-29-15, 15:01
gonwtwindo's Avatar
gonwtwindo gonwtwindo is offline
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Posts: 6,671
 
Plan: General Low Carb
Stats: 164/162.6/151 Female 5'3"
BF:Sure is
Progress: 11%
Location: SoCal
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Good for her. She has struggled her whole lifetime it seems. Maybe this will work for her. She's not one to just "sign up"...she likes to take a bull by its horns. If she's not successful, maybe we'll see her over here
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  #23   ^
Old Thu, Oct-29-15, 17:22
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,147
 
Plan: LC--Atkins
Stats: 195/162/150 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 73%
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Everything works for Oprah! Trouble is, she can't stick with anything.
Quote:
maybe we'll see her over here
She tried LC once. It worked. Maybe she will be back. Shall we send her an invitation?
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  #24   ^
Old Fri, Oct-30-15, 06:26
esw's Avatar
esw esw is offline
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Posts: 683
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 175/166/147 Female 5ft 5ins
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janjfree
I have tons of respect for her b/c she keeps on trying. As a now 70 y.o. woman who struggled w/weight all my life and finally found my solution at age 64, I know all too well how it felt to fail and fail and fail and keep trying.

Personally, I don't like WW because of their additive laden food, but I hope she finds a solution that works for her.


I imagine like many of us, she values her size and health above wealth! Everybody wants to be NORMAL and COMFORTABLE in their own body!
We have found something that works and is manageable long term. Like Janjfree I hope Oprah finds the same.
She will only find it herself. So many do gooders will be trying to get her on their wagon though. I guess I might be tempted, not by the money but by thinking this step might just be the one that helps me crack how to maintain the weight loss. I wonder if that is the real reason she is making it so public.
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  #25   ^
Old Fri, Oct-30-15, 12:01
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
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Posts: 2,573
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/150/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: NE WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meme#1
And you know that Oprah has a personal chef but that doesn't stop her from getting into the chips, ice cream and driving though McDonalds with Gail in tow...


I remember reading an interview with Lucille Ball (this was, of course, years ago) and she said she kept her weight down by only eating what her cook served her.

I can't remember the brand name, but there used to be (still is?) a plan where you buy all the food from the company & eat only that. I knew only one person who tried that, but he ate between meals so was unsuccessful at losing any weight.

Last edited by Bonnie OFS : Fri, Oct-30-15 at 12:09.
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  #26   ^
Old Sat, Oct-31-15, 04:15
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,370
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2015/1...k.html#jumpLink

Oprah’s Investment in Weight Watchers Was Smart Because the Program Doesn’t Work



One section from article

..."In fact, those same studies found that only Weight Watchers participants reliably lost more weight than people in control groups who were not enrolled in a diet program at all. At first glance, Weight Watchers works.

But the truth is a bit more complicated: Winfrey’s venture is, in fact, a brilliant investment, although not necessarily for the reason she thinks. It’s brilliant not because Weight Watchers works but because it doesn’t. It’s the perfect business model. People give Weight Watchers the credit when they lose weight. Then they regain the weight and blame themselves. This sets them up to join Weight Watchers all over again, and they do."....
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  #27   ^
Old Sat, Oct-31-15, 06:05
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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Quote:
"In fact, those same studies found that only Weight Watchers participants reliably lost more weight than people in control groups who were not enrolled in a diet program at all. At first glance, Weight Watchers works.


Perhaps this is only because Weight Watchers can't really be called Weight Watchers unless it's actually Weight Watchers. An Atkins, Zone or Ornish intervention can be "here's a book," or a printout etc., "see you in six months." Is that a test of the diet, or of the support provided?
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  #28   ^
Old Sat, Oct-31-15, 07:07
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,147
 
Plan: LC--Atkins
Stats: 195/162/150 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 73%
Location: Kansas City, MO
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In my extensive experience with weight management and other life challenges, having a support group, or at least a reporting community, is one of the least appreciated and most effective forms of success through accountability. As long as it isn't shaming.

A community like this one gives me and others a chance to share, compare, question, celebrate, learn, fail, and succeed, with like-minded friends along the way. It isn't as impersonal as it might seem, being online and all. Because it's so convenient--a 24/7 talk fest!--it's easy to maintain the connection, unlike meetings. And here you can pick the people you want to engage with, or not.

From the article above:
Quote:
The shift to a broader lifestyle and self help brand has reportedly been driven by the threat posed to Weight Watchers' business model from low-cost calorie tracker apps and social media platforms where people share their stories of personal transformation, instead of attending meetings.
Well, yes.

I'm a regular reader of O Magazine. I could only wish to be followed around by Oprah's stylist and airbrush artist! The magazine is in perpetual "self-help" mode, but it is wildly contradictory. All the advertising and many of the articles tout expensive beauty products, clothes, jewelry. The "makeover" articles (I admit I love them!) suggest that being more beautiful or fashionable is the key to success. In our culture, probably it still is.

Back to the topic: weight management is all about personal accountability. Nobody else can decide from day to day what you put in your mouth or how much you exercise or what products you use to promote good health. No magic there. I reinforce myself by registering accountability here, and NOT wanting to "fail" the people who might find a success story (mine?) inspiring.

And when/if I begin to backslide, I know that one of the danger signs is this: I stop going to my favorite forum.

So...go Oprah. Hope springs eternal.
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  #29   ^
Old Sat, Oct-31-15, 08:01
esw's Avatar
esw esw is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 683
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 175/166/147 Female 5ft 5ins
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkloots
In my extensive experience with weight management and other life challenges, having a support group, or at least a reporting community, is one of the least appreciated and most effective forms of success through accountability. As long as it isn't shaming.

A community like this one gives me and others a chance to share, compare, question, celebrate, learn, fail, and succeed, with like-minded friends along the way. It isn't as impersonal as it might seem, being online and all. Because it's so convenient--a 24/7 talk fest!--it's easy to maintain the connection, unlike meetings. And here you can pick the people you want to engage with, or not.

And when/if I begin to backslide, I know that one of the danger signs is this: I stop going to my favorite forum.

So...go Oprah. Hope springs eternal.


^^^^^^^
What Barbara said!
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  #30   ^
Old Mon, Dec-07-15, 05:40
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,370
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Oh my, there are so many comments I could make on this article about Oprah, Weight Watchers and Beyond the Scale I don't know where to start

Weight Watchers’ Plan: Don’t Call It a ‘Diet’

http://www.wsj.com/articles/weight-...diet-1449441791


Quote:

Weight Watchers’ Plan: Don’t Call It a ‘Diet’
To win back members, company pushes lifestyle change rather than just dieting; gains Oprah Winfrey’s support


By ELLEN BYRON

Weight Watchers no longer wants to sell diets.

Instead, the 52-year-old company is betting that it can reverse its long decline—and win back some of its 20 million lapsed members—by changing how it helps people lose weight. It is also banking on the star power of one its newest members: Oprah Winfrey.
“We may be the greatest diet company on the planet but the consumer isn’t thinking strictly in diet terms anymore,” said James Chambers, CEO of Weight Watchers International Inc. “They aren’t thinking of diet and deprivation as the path they want to take; they’re thinking much more holistically.”

Weight Watchers is replacing its eating plan with a new program called “Beyond the Scale.” The effort includes revamped food guidelines, more emphasis on fitness and new motivational tools to “find and fuel inner strength,” the company says. The word “diet” is deliberately omitted, executives say.

Weight Watchers needs an overhaul. The company has posted 11 consecutive quarters of revenue declines and is plagued by an onslaught of free smartphone apps that count calories and track fitness. At the end of its most recent quarter, it had just 2.6 million active subscribers, down from more than 4 million in 2013.

Weight Watchers’ share price has more than tripled since it disclosed in October that Ms. Winfrey had invested in the company and joined its board. Yet its current market capitalization of $1.6 billion is still 75% below its high of $6.2 billion, which was set in May 2011.

Over the years, the company’s attempts to add new participants—like targeting men and younger dieters—didn’t gain traction. So this time, Weight Watchers decided to focus on its core base—middle-aged women—especially those who have already tried and quit the program. “It’ll only take a small percentage to return to make a meaningful impact,” Chief Financial Officer Nicholas Hotchkin told investors last month.

Membership is the largest source of revenue for the company, accounting for about 80% of the $1.48 billion it pulled in last fiscal year. And members who pay $44.95 a month to attend meetings are the most valuable. Online members pay about half as much.

The company had been working on overhauling its dieting formula to adjust to changing consumer tastes and updated nutritional guidelines last winter, when a marketing campaign in the key New Year’s dieting season flopped and technical glitches turned away potential members.

Executives then realized that the company needed bigger changes. Researchers were dispatched to conduct interviews with consumers in their homes. They found that Americans still want to lose weight but they don’t want to give up too much. “They want a lifestyle shift versus a short-term fix,” said Debra Benovitz, the company’s senior vice president of global consumer insights.

At the same time as its eating plan was being overhauled, Weight Watchers’ head of marketing reached out to Ms. Winfrey’s agent, Ari Emanuel, in late June. Top executives, including Mr. Chambers, met with her in August to discuss the new program and a possible deal.

For years, Ms. Winfrey had been resistant to the Weight Watchers diet. A perennial public dieter, she had never tried Weight Watchers, which she associated with her mother’s generation. She was thinking of starting her own diet program, but instead decided to link up with an existing operation. “I learned from building a [television] network from scratch that if you can find something that’s already working, then join that,” she said in an interview.

After initial discussions, she said she wanted to try the new eating plan Weight Watchers was testing before moving forward. “I didn’t know if it would work because I’ve tried and failed so many times” on other diets, she said. It worked and Ms. Winfrey agreed to buy a 10% stake in the company and lend her fame to a brand that was wilting.

The deal needed to include a board seat, she said. “I definitely want to participate in any kind of decisions that are going to be made in the future, and not just be an adviser but look at how we can make the program better,” Ms. Winfrey said.

She said she speaks with Mr. Chambers once a week or so, discussing marketing and program details. She recently filmed an ad campaign in her backyard that will begin later this month, she said.

So far, Ms. Winfrey has made money and lost more than 20 pounds. The $43 million she invested in Weight Watchers, plus an options award the company gave her, have paper gains of nearly $200 million.

Her support will add needed firepower to Weight Watchers’ latest attempt to remake itself and draw new members. Its “Beyond the Scale” plan gives users other goals to reach aside from weight loss, including personalized fitness targets and a new app that suggests exercises lasting one to 15 minutes. The new food plan “nudges” members to eat more lean protein and fruits and vegetables, and less sugar and saturated fat.

The company is adopting a new meeting format, too. Weekly meetings will still have weigh-ins, but will focus more on support among members rather than lectures. The booklets members use to track their progress no longer include a body-mass index chart, highlighting plans for “me time” instead.

Jenn Johnson, a therapist in Hopatcong, N.J., is the kind of lapsed member that Weight Watchers is hoping to snare. Ms. Johnson, 37 years old, was a member 10 years ago but quit after reaching her weight-loss goal for her wedding. Having regained those pounds, she came back to Weight Watchers in June in a company research group to test the new plan.

She has since lost 20 pounds. “Now, the endgame is about being healthier, having more energy and being around longer for my kids,” Ms. Johnson said.

Weight Watchers executives debated whether a new, more holistic lifestyle program called for changing the name of the company.

Ultimately, they resolved to keep their name but will increasingly use the initials “WW” when marketing the new program.

Write to Ellen Byron at ellen.byron~wsj.com


Another story had her comment about being fed-up with No Carb (because she likes them! and is addicted to them ) http://abcnews.go.com/Health/weight...ory?id=35584563


Found some details of plan here:

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...-300188665.html

Quote:
Eating healthier with new SmartPoints
Counting calories and the PointsPlus system focused only on the weight loss part of the equation. In its strongest stance ever on eating healthier foods, Weight Watchers is changing the PointsPlus system and launching SmartPoints. The new SmartPoints plan makes healthy eating simple by translating complex nutritional information into one simple number. The new plan nudges members toward a pattern of eating that includes more lean protein, fruits and vegetables, and less sugar and saturated fat. All fresh fruits and most vegetables are zero SmartPoints.


Wasn't the unlimited fruit and low saturated fat what lost many members when they switched to PointsPlus?? Went crazy with hunger with no limit on fructose and little fat to balance it.

Last edited by JEY100 : Mon, Dec-07-15 at 08:56.
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