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  #1216   ^
Old Tue, Jun-04-19, 06:20
bluesinger's Avatar
bluesinger bluesinger is offline
Posts: 4,013
 
Plan: Keto+IF
Stats: 170/138/140 Female 62 inches
BF:24%
Progress: 107%
Location: Nevada Desert, USA
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EOD Fasting is interesting, and for me it proves how much of my battle is inside my head. Something amazing about being able to tell myself that tomorrow I can eat, so why worry about today. Still striving for Therapeutic Keto levels. Hard to maintain without exogenous ketone consumption, but for now I'm not using.

My goal is to raise my BMR. One thing I've found about not being hungry is that I don't consume enough calories on feeding days. I want to raise that BMR so I can burn more of the fat I eat. Don't need to store any.
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  #1217   ^
Old Tue, Jun-04-19, 10:33
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 2,914
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Good podcast interview with Jason by Danny Zederman, the armchair nutritionist. One question I've had for a few years is, how long does it take during a fast to get into autophagy? The answer according to Fung: 16-24 hours. I can understand the 8-hour range because everyone varies and I assume it has a lot to do with the baseline WOE from which everyone starts. Good to be armed with this information. Now I can be confident to achieve autophagy when doing IFs with durations of 24 or more hours, but in as little as 24 hours, beneficial cleansing is happening.

Here's the link:
https://soundcloud.com/user-8721736...6b1c8-102468937
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  #1218   ^
Old Tue, Jun-04-19, 11:25
s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
Posts: 1,109
 
Plan: Atkins & IF / TRE
Stats: 000/014.5/015 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 97%
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^ listening now - thanks!



...04:12 starts here!

...10:37 autophagy

...12:23 autophagy typically take 16-24 hours

Last edited by s93uv3h : Tue, Jun-04-19 at 11:33.
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  #1219   ^
Old Wed, Jul-03-19, 07:04
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 13,516
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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https://www.sciencedaily.com/releas...90702152749.htm

Mouse study--but right on target for what we talk about here. A fairly aggressive approach, at least in mice--24 hours is a pretty long fast for an animal that can starve in about a week. But time restricted eating, which involves something more along the lines of an eight hour eating window, has also been shown effective in avoiding diet related insulin resistance etc. in mice, I just don't think I've seen anything about pancreatic fat with those protocol. I think they'd probably find it has a protective effect if they looked.



Quote:
Promising approach: Prevent diabetes with intermittent fasting

Intermittent fasting is known to improve sensitivity to the blood glucose-lowering hormone insulin and to protect against fatty liver. DZD scientists from DIfE have now discovered that mice on an intermittent fasting regimen also exhibited lower pancreatic fat. In their current study published in the journal Metabolism, the researchers showed the mechanism by which pancreatic fat could contribute to the development of type 2 diabetes.

Fatty liver has been thoroughly investigated as a known and frequently occurring disease. However, little is known about excess weight-induced fat accumulation in the pancreas and its effects on the onset of type 2 diabetes. The research team led by Professor Annette Schürmann and Professor Tim J. Schulz of the German Institute of Human Nutrition (DIfE) has now found that overweight mice prone to diabetes have a high accumulation of fat cells in the pancreas. Mice resistant to diabetes due to their genetic make-up despite excess weight had hardly any fat in the pancreas, but instead had fat deposits in the liver. "Fat accumulations outside the fat tissue, e.g. in the liver, muscles or even bones, have a negative effect on these organs and the entire body. What impact fat cells have within the pancreas has not been clear until now," said Schürmann, head of the Department of Experimental Diabetology at DIfE and speaker of the German Center for Diabetes Research (DZD).

Intermittent fasting reduces pancreatic fat

The team of scientists divided the overweight animals, which were prone to diabetes, into two groups: The first group was allowed to eat ad libitum -- as much as they wanted whenever they wanted. The second group underwent an intermittent fasting regimen: one day the rodents received unlimited chow and the next day they were not fed at all. After five weeks, the researchers observed differences in the pancreas of the mice: Fat cells accumulated in group one. The animals in group two, on the other hand, had hardly any fat deposits in the pancreas.

Pancreatic adipocytes mediate hypersecretion of insulin

In order to find out how fat cells might impair the function of the pancreas, researchers led by Schürmann and Schulz isolated adipocyte precursor cells from the pancreas of mice for the first time and allowed them to differentiate into mature fat cells. If the mature fat cells were subsequently cultivated together with the Langerhans islets of the pancreas, the beta cells of the "islets" increasingly secreted insulin. "We suspect that the increased secretion of insulin causes the Langerhans islets of diabetes-prone animals to deplete more quickly and, after some time, to cease functioning completely. In this way, fat accumulation in the pancreas could contribute to the development of type 2 diabetes," said Schürmann.

Significance of pancreatic fat for diabetes prevention

Current data suggest that not only liver fat should be reduced to prevent type 2 diabetes. "Under certain genetic conditions, the accumulation of fat in the pancreas may play a decisive role in the development of type 2 diabetes," said Schulz, head of the Department of Adipocyte Development and Nutrition. Intermittent fasting could be a promising therapeutic approach in the future. The advantages: it is non-invasive, easy to integrate into everyday life and does not require drugs.

Intermittent Fasting

Intermittent fasting means not eating during certain time slots. However, water, unsweetened tea and black coffee are allowed around the clock. Depending on the method, the fasting lasts between 16 and 24 hours or, alternatively, a maximum of 500 to 600 calories are consumed on two days within a week. The best known form of intermittent fasting is the 16:8 method which involves eating only during an eight-hour window during the day and fasting for the remaining 16 hours. One meal -- usually breakfast -- is omitted.

Islets of Langerhans

The islets of Langerhans -- also referred to as islet cells or Langerhans islets -- are islet-like accumulations of hormone-producing cells in the pancreas. A healthy adult has about one million Langerhans islets. Each "islet" has a diameter of 0.2-0.5 millimeters. The beta cells produce the blood glucose-lowering hormone insulin and make up about 65 to 80 percent of the islet cells. When blood glucose levels are elevated, these secrete insulin into the bloodstream so that the levels are normalized again.
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  #1220   ^
Old Wed, Jul-03-19, 07:46
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 2,914
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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The mouse mechanism makes sense from a human perspective, and even without IF, many lose visceral fat first by following a strict low carb WOE. Got to think this helps restore the organs including the pancreas to normal functioning over time. Fung and team have proven the benefits of IF in humans, and I believe the low carb health benefits have been proven by many in a clinical setting.
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  #1221   ^
Old Wed, Jul-03-19, 07:57
FREE2BEME's Avatar
FREE2BEME FREE2BEME is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,741
 
Plan: Atkins & IF
Stats: 260/194/150 Female 65 inches
BF:
Progress: 60%
Location: Japan
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Hi! Sorry, this isn’t about Dr. Fung, but it is about fasting.

So there’s someone who pops up on my YouTube newsfeed who goes by the name of Dr. Mindy. She has a ton of followers and teaches all kinds of fasting protocols and doing a reset of some sort. She has free stuff available but also classes and memberships that aren’t free.

Anyway, in her most recent video, she talks about how we need to time our fasts around our cycle. She suggest that menstruating women stop fasting during the week before their period, so around day 21. She recommends consuming hormone producing foods like squash or other higher carb vegetables, including potatoes, I think. Then, when your cycle starts or PMS passes, go back to keto and regular fasting protocols. If you don’t take keto breaks, that line up with your cycle (or when you’d expect your cycle to be, in the case of women who don’t cycle regularly) then you’re more likely to suffer with PMS and anxiety and maybe hair loss, lack of energy, etc.

What she’s saying makes perfect sense to me! I was just commenting to my keto friend in my neighborhood that normally I feel great doing OMAD and have been keeping my eating window to 2-8 hours (but mostly 2) since September. But the week before my period, I noticed that I just feel gross when I force myself to go more than 16-18 hours without food. I’ll feel more edgy and irritable and frustrated and weak and more. I told my friend that I wonder if maybe our cycles should be directing our fasting schedules, to some degree. Not that it’s a license to eat garbage, but that maybe huge calorie deficits and long stretches with no food, coupled with more stress than usual was not in our best interest during the PMS week. Intuitively, I have been going up to two meals a day when I’m experiencing PMS symptoms, but not as part of any strategy. It was just intuitive eating, trying to increase energy and to not feel gross. And then “Dr. Mindy” said exactly the same thing!

Does anyone who follows this thread have any thoughts about this?
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  #1222   ^
Old Fri, Jul-05-19, 10:50
CityGirl8 CityGirl8 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 701
 
Plan: Protein Power, IF
Stats: 238/204/145 Female 5'8"
BF:53.75%/46.6%/25%
Progress: 37%
Location: PNW
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Yeah, I've heard of this. I don't think there's any science behind suggesting that squash is a "hormone producing food" or that women need to eat high carb foods (like potatoes) during their period. However, for some women, upping your red meat intake makes scientific sense.

I think most women who have tended to big hormonal variations (and all the accompanying effects) during their periods find this evens out while they're on low carb and I wouldn't think upping your carb intake would have a positive overall effect.

But if your instinct is telling you not to fast, then that's a great reason not to.
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  #1223   ^
Old Fri, Jul-05-19, 12:35
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 11,543
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/136/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: USA
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I learned a lot about hormones when mine went haywire. It’s possible that at this point it might be more of a feed week and another point in the cycle is the best time for extended fasting.
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  #1224   ^
Old Sat, Jul-06-19, 08:47
FREE2BEME's Avatar
FREE2BEME FREE2BEME is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,741
 
Plan: Atkins & IF
Stats: 260/194/150 Female 65 inches
BF:
Progress: 60%
Location: Japan
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I agree with you both. In fact, WereBear, I was actually calling it my refeed week before I ever saw that video. But I agree that she had no science to back up the need for potatoes and other starchy vegetables and fruits. In fact, those foods would probably send me on a binge.
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  #1225   ^
Old Sat, Jul-06-19, 12:20
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,974
 
Plan: HF/vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
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Induction levels of carbs ended my 30-yr battle with PMS and saw me into menopause with no symptoms whatsoever for 18 yrs and counting.

Eat more on-plan food if you're hungry. Starchy foods will likely just add to bloat and cravings and make you feel worse.

I prefer my doctors to use their surnames instead of Dr. + their cutesy first name. Or just go by their first names, especially when they are nutritionists and chiropractors, not MDs. I have a PhD, but never refer to myself as Dr.

Last edited by deirdra : Sat, Jul-06-19 at 12:29.
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  #1226   ^
Old Sun, Jul-07-19, 05:13
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 11,543
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/136/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FREE2BEME
I agree with you both. In fact, WereBear, I was actually calling it my refeed week before I ever saw that video. But I agree that she had no science to back up the need for potatoes and other starchy vegetables and fruits. In fact, those foods would probably send me on a binge.


Likewise, I found my own bingeing was triggered as much by malnutrition as it was emotional issues, which are considerable, of course. I worked through those, but at certain times I would have that restless prowl in the kitchen.

Always triggered by carbs, of course. Now that I am at minimal carb intake on Keto, it is amazing how little I care about my one-time trigger foods.
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  #1227   ^
Old Wed, Jul-17-19, 17:16
Squarecube's Avatar
Squarecube Squarecube is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 870
 
Plan: atkins/paleo/IF
Stats: 186.5/159.0/160 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: NYC
Default Jason Fung with Peter Attia

This is a great podcast that may take awhile to get through.

Fung and Fung alone has changed the way many of us think of diabetes, insulin, and fasting. Ok, maybe just me, but now he,s done it again.

Near the end of this podcast they discuss protein needs with fasting and muscle wasting.....




https://peterattiamd.us15.list-mana...f0&e=3b79369ff0
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  #1228   ^
Old Sun, Jul-21-19, 14:38
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,122
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Sorry I am late to post, but Obesity Code is on Amazon's Kindle Deal of the Day today for $1.99 and Diabetes Code is $2.99. It also jogged my memory about that. 3 hour Dr Attia interview with Dr Fung. Those two talking about HyperInsulinemia is just brilliant.
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