Is it possible to build muscle while in ketosis? Given that you are in a calorie surplus and are eating adequate protein?

It is possible with a calorie surplus, but have heard many times in the bodybuilding community that its a lot easier to build muscle when eating more carbs. If your trying to build muscle, i cant see any reason why you would want to stay in ketosis. At the very least I would recommend having carbs around your workouts.

The bodybuilding community still believes in the Positive Caloric Balance hypothesis i.e. a calorie is a calorie is a calorie. Their advice to gain muscle is: Eat more. This forum is dedicated to low carb diets and as such we're a little more informed on the subject so we would be the first to consider that advice as naive if not completely wrong.

Carbohydrates drive insulin drives fat accumulation. This fundamental principle is the simplest explanation of how we grow fat. Bodybuilders don't escape this mechanism in the least. In fact, the classical method to grow muscle is to eat more regardless of macronutrients, grow fat because of the high carb content, then cut by cutting total calories (which invariably cuts total carbs) again regardless of macronutrients all the while lifting heavy weights. In other words, even as they lift the bar i.e. exercise, they grow fatter. It's called the bulk/cut method. Do you want to grow fat? If not, then don't follow this advice.

The advice to eat more carbs comes from the fact that protein requires insulin to be used by cells. Since carbs also require insulin and more insulin would logically improve the amino acids uptake by cells, eating more carbs would then be the logical thing to do to gain more muscle. The problem with this logic is that it doesn't take into consideration insulin resistance. This builds over time such that cells simply refuse to take in any more insulin. At that point, the only thing that grows is fat tissue because it's the last tissue to become insulin resistant. It can take years like it can take weeks.

Carbohydrates serve only one purpose and that's fuel. It can't be used for repair or maintenance or any other purpose than fuel. Fat can be used for fuel, repair, maintenance and building blocks of cells, sterols production such as cholesterol and subsequently testosterone, and various tissue with the main tissue being the brain. Protein can be used for fuel, repair, maintenance and building blocks of cells and various tissue with the main tissue being muscles. Vitamins and minerals are used in every step of fuel utilization, repair, maintenance and building blocks and there are many more better alternatives than eating carbs to get those.

So yes, it's entirely possible, perhaps even easier, to grow muscle while in ketosis.

It worked for Arnold,Lou Ferigno and A lot of others
back in the day. There is a web site I visit once in a while that has lots of info-

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/becker25.htm (This link talks about diet)

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/becker26.htm

yOu just bring the fresh crab anytime!...Bru

Vince Gironda sure sounds like Atkins to me! With one serving of fruit a day added. Thanks for the info and links ProfGumby. Back in the day late70's early 80's I used to work out with all the animals at the Detroit Power House Gym. Most of those guys where living on Roasts and steak, they weren't worried about lean protein. Plus usually 6-12 eggs a day, even back then most body builders knew the egg was a perfect food....Bru
PS At 6'7" 325 pounds with 18 1/2 inch arms a 62" chest 44" waist that was one of the few places in my life I felt small. Almost every one of those guy where on the juice, and where ungodly huge. I never did use steroids, saw to many guys get stupid on them!

Lisa just read some research that was done on super slow; http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/sup...t-training.html
It will be fun to do a test on myself to see how effective it is. After reading this I think I will do an 8 week cycle of slow burn, then an 8 week cycle of 5X5 power lifting. Just to see which adds more muscle. I will continue to use my elliptical through both programs. This should be a fun experiment. Found out they offer Slow burn about 3 hours from me. I will try it on my own first, but its nice to know there is instruction near enough.

thanks very much for the info very interesting and uselful!!!

Very true.

The bulking/cutting method works...but the problem is it assumes you're a rail-thin 98-pound weakling with a hyper-fast metabolism who actually wants to get bigger, and start fitting into pants from the Adult Mens section of the store. In fact, pretty much all body-building advice/magazines/websites that I've found cater to these type of guys.

But what about guys like me? I'm not skinny, nor will I ever be. Most would consider me to be "husky". In order for me to lose weight, I have to embark on diet that most would consider "starvation", while running my ass off every single day. Oh, and if I do that, I can kiss whatever muscle I have goodbye. But hell, at least I'll be a few pants size's smaller!

Unfortunately, I'm not terribly strong, either. 20 years of bad habits, no exercise, and disinterest in any type of sport turned me into a fat, bloated weakling, similar to those folks in WALL-E. Now this weakling is thinner, but he wants to get strong. Following this "bulking" nonsense will certainly make me stronger, but it'll also quickly turn me into on obese man on the verge of cardiac arrest.

I've been lowcarbing, and have quite effectively been packing on the muscle. You just need to push yourself enough to see the results.

Great post M Levac!
I have long asserted that carbs are really not a necessary macronutrient..they are an energy substrates..they don't build anything.

Fats and proteins are structural materials..you build things with these compounds..enzymes, hormones, hair...that's why they are essential.

One big issue with the carb debate as it pertains to "fitness" is that the intake of carbs spares protein..Well they also spare fat!. Why would your body burn fat if you are taking in all this energy in ther form of "easily" burned carbs?

A mistake that a lot of people make when lowering their carbs is not to increase their fat intake..when that happens, precious protein is used as a fuel source instead of helping to build muscle.

I think low carb, low fat is not ideal when it comes to building muscle.

So yes, you can build muscle while in ketosis.

BTW, in regards to Mlevacs point about insulin resistance..

I am the shining example of it.. during my years as a bodybuilder starting in the 80's, I took in over 400 grams of carbs a day..brown rice, whole wheat pasta,granola,yams, baked potatoes..blah, blah.

I bulked up alot...I was pretty fat. I looked buff in clothes, but when the shirt came off...oooh boy.

I was always telling my peers I was going through a bulking phase. And I always felt stuffed, bloated and miserable, but I had to keep slamming those carbs!

Well now that I am 40+, I now have insulin resistance..the constant bathing of my cells with insulin has shut down my insuin sensitivity ..I took a glucose tolerant test and it took 78 units of insulin to lower the 100 grams of dextrose that I drank..

So my pancreas is just pumping out the insulin to try and lower that blood sugar..poor guy.

If it would've stayed high..type-2 diabetes

All I can say, is keep those carbs to a limit, if you take them in at all.

Martin: I dont know where you got your view on the bodybuilding community but its completly wrong. The majority of bodybuilders very carefully watch macronutrient breakdowns and calories, they dont just get fat.

"This forum is dedicated to low carb diets and as such we're a little more informed on the subject" - You couldnt be more narrow minded and wrong you are on the subject.

You seem very stuck in your theories, so ill just say that bodybuilders are the experts in adding lean muscle, and trimming off fat that comes with it. The majority use low carb diets to cut down their bodyfat, then reintroduce as many carbs as they need to when building more muscle.

Feel free to try adding muscle while in ketosis and not in a calorie surplus - you will be wasting your time.

Do you agree with the others though that it is possible to gain muscle while in ketosis and IN a calorie surplus? Should this be any harder than on a traditional diet higher and carbs and not in ketosis?

Yeah, you wouldn't resort to personal attacks either. Then you wouldn't play the victim to make you look righteous either.

Well, Carl - As a 60-year-old post-menopausal women I don't possess an epenis (nor do I play one on TV), but I believe I haven't been wasting my time trying to build muscle while in ketosis AND consuming a calorie deficit.

I've been low carbing for a fairly long time. Two months ago I began doing Super Slow weight training. In those two months I have put on 10 pounds of rock hard muscle while continuing to lose body fat and inches. That's right. TEN POUNDS OF MUSCLE. My pecs are so hard they feel like bone; you can bounce a quarter off my biceps.

My recently measured oxygen consumption is 100%. Oh, and I work out a total of 40 minutes a week - 2 twenty minute sessions. Period.

Here's what I ate yesterday - 1983 calories, composed of: 81% fat; 15% protein; 4% carbs. To be precise, that was 26.1 total carbs, and 11.1 fiber, which means I ate exactly 15 net carbs.

My normal/average calorie intake is between 1300-1500 per day, but I worked out (for only 20 minutes!) on Tuesday morning, and I'm always ravenous the next day.

I have more energy than is good for me, sleep like a teenager, and am told I look about 20 years younger than I am.

Now, let's see how big your epenis really is. Are you ready to admit that, while NOT running a calorie surplus nor eating carbs, I have in fact NOT been wasting my time "trying to add muscle"?

Come on . . . I just know you can do it . . .

Lisa