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  #1   ^
Old Sun, Mar-08-20, 07:39
s93uv3h's Avatar
s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
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Default sprouted grain bread

In her 2008 book Deep Nutrition, one of Dr. Catherine Shanahan's four pillars of eating is sprouted foods, and she mentions sprouted grain bread.

Has anyone recently added sprouted grain bread back into the keto / LC diet?



Four Pillars–fresh food

1 fresh food
2 fermented foods & sprouted foods
3 meat cooked on the bone
4 organ meats
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  #2   ^
Old Sun, Mar-08-20, 07:42
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
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No. I'm gluten free. Even if I'm not, it's too high carb.

Read Wheatbelly. Here's that doctor's blog.

https://www.wheatbellyblog.com/

Sprouted wheat bread is better than whole grain, and better than white bread. But it's all bad. The classic comparison is that filtered cigarettes are better for you than unfiltered cigarettes.

But they are both still bad.
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  #3   ^
Old Sun, Mar-08-20, 09:36
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GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
No. I'm gluten free. Even if I'm not, it's too high carb.

Read Wheatbelly. Here's that doctor's blog.

https://www.wheatbellyblog.com/

Sprouted wheat bread is better than whole grain, and better than white bread. But it's all bad. The classic comparison is that filtered cigarettes are better for you than unfiltered cigarettes.

But they are both still bad.

Agreed. Dr. Paul Saladino has a new book on the benefits of carnivore eating which details the reasons why thinking grains (sprouts of grains), vegetables and fruits are a necessary part of a healthy diet. He even challenges the belief that cruciferous vegetables providing sulphoraphane are healthy. Watch out Rhonda Patrick!!! Here's his website. Interesting stuff:

https://carnivoremd.com
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  #4   ^
Old Mon, Mar-09-20, 23:30
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s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
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Plan: Atkins & IF / TRE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
No. I'm gluten free. Even if I'm not, it's too high carb.
I'm gluten free also. Just checking on something new that I've never heard of.
Quote:
Dr. Paul Saladino has a new book on the benefits of carnivore eating which details the reasons why thinking grains (sprouts of grains), vegetables and fruits are a necessary part of a healthy diet.
You mean are not a necessary part?
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, Mar-10-20, 12:58
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GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
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I'll rewrite it:

Dr. Paul Saladino has a new book on the benefits of carnivore eating which details the reasons why thinking grains (sprouts of grains), vegetables and fruits are a necessary part of a healthy diet is a fallacy.
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  #6   ^
Old Tue, Mar-10-20, 23:41
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s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
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Plan: Atkins & IF / TRE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
Dr. Paul Saladino has a new book on the benefits of carnivore eating which details the reasons why thinking grains (sprouts of grains), vegetables and fruits are a necessary part of a healthy diet is a fallacy.
oh i get it. so i take it he doesn't like sprouted grain bread?

i hear good things about sourdough bread also. compared to white bread and whole grain bread.
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Mar-11-20, 04:16
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WereBear WereBear is online now
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Default

Remember than ancient people had no supermarkets. Many indigenous practices studied by Weston Price were food traditions which made marginal foods not deadly any more. Which is not the same as healthy

Anthropologists studying mummies from a range of Egyptian eras found that the introduction of bread and beer led to less nourished people. Everybody loves bread and beer! But they are not that good for us.

Also, hunter gatherers had no industrialized food, got lots of sun exposure mediated by skin pigmentation (the closer to the equator, the more you needed) for vitamin D, and moved their bodies regularly through daily tasks. This kept their muscles strong and their lymphatic system in top shape, without risk of repetitive motion injury.

The desk job indoors is an entirely different health setup. Which is why I'm strict about what I eat. I can't be strict about my daily routine as a desk worker being on the health-denying side.
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, Mar-11-20, 06:59
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s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
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I think a good bread can be had like a few times a year and not start your gut leaking. Not every week eating or every day. Say, Thanksgiving and Easter.

I believe it was in Dr. William Davis' Wheat Belly where he talks about now today's agri business wheat is so different from what was originally used to be. A great book anyway and I highly recommend it. I bought my own copy.

iirc, he also mentioned a guy who was trying to bring back the old wheat and get it going. Now that would be something. Bread made with ancient DNA wheat and no vegetable oil / seed oil.
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  #9   ^
Old Wed, Mar-11-20, 08:07
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s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
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Found the einkorn / ancient wheat reference in Wheat Belly, from Chapter 2 Not Your Grandma's Muffins: The Creation of Modern Wheat:



and then:



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  #10   ^
Old Wed, Mar-11-20, 13:36
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Calianna Calianna is online now
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After reading his experiment with the ancient wheat and the modern organic wheat, I wish he'd done several days in a row of each, separating consumption of the two types of bread by at least a week, instead of only one day between them. I say this, because I know it's possible to have a certain amount of tolerance for something that normally bothers you if you only eat it one time. Eat it again the next day, and it could be a completely different matter.

On the other hand, considering how bad he reacted to the modern day organic wheat, I wouldn't have wanted to put him through that misery for 4 or 5 days in a row - that's another problem with such experiments, if the reaction is bad enough, you can't even finish it.

At the very least, I would have wanted to separate the two one-day experiments by several days, if not a couple of weeks, just to make sure there were no latent after effects from the first experiment that could affect the results of the 2nd experiment.


As a long time bread baker, the ancient grains sound very similar to rye in the consistency of the mixture (more sticky, not as pliable, not as stretchy), their ability to rise (very little), and a decidedly different flavor from the typical bland, tasteless modern bread. I'm not saying they were actually a grain similar to rye, only that they must share some properties which makes rye somewhat more tolerable to some people - primarily a very low gluten content, which certainly goes a way towards explaining why there's so much gluten intolerance today - our guts may be able to tolerate very small amounts of gluten, but were never intended to process anywhere near as much gluten as modern day flour contains.
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  #11   ^
Old Thu, Mar-12-20, 00:06
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s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
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Plan: Atkins & IF / TRE
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In the mean time, I make do with 2g net carb mug bread.

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  #12   ^
Old Thu, Mar-12-20, 07:54
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doreen T doreen T is offline
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Default

All this talk about soaked/sprouted grains reminds me of rejuvelac. Sprouted whole wheat berries are soaked to the point of fermentation .. you drink the liquid and discard (or compost) the spent grains. It's been many years since I've made it, but lately wondering if it might work as a substitute for kombucha since no added sugar is required . I do recall that alternate non-gluten grains will work too, including brown rice or buckwheat.
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  #13   ^
Old Fri, Mar-13-20, 06:14
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Demi Demi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
Remember than ancient people had no supermarkets. Many indigenous practices studied by Weston Price were food traditions which made marginal foods not deadly any more. Which is not the same as healthy

Anthropologists studying mummies from a range of Egyptian eras found that the introduction of bread and beer led to less nourished people. Everybody loves bread and beer! But they are not that good for us.

Also, hunter gatherers had no industrialized food, got lots of sun exposure mediated by skin pigmentation (the closer to the equator, the more you needed) for vitamin D, and moved their bodies regularly through daily tasks. This kept their muscles strong and their lymphatic system in top shape, without risk of repetitive motion injury.

The desk job indoors is an entirely different health setup. Which is why I'm strict about what I eat. I can't be strict about my daily routine as a desk worker being on the health-denying side.
Going slightly off topic here, I came across this interesting article this week concerning hunter gatherers and a sedentary lifestyle:

Quote:
Office chairs should be switched for squatting or kneeling to stay healthy, study of hunter-gatherer tribe suggests

The Hadza people are considered one of the last hunter-gatherer tribes in Africa


The heads of smug colleagues bobbing above their adjustable standing desks may have become a popular sight across UK offices.

Yet anthropologists claim that those keen to stave off chronic diseases should consider going one step further - by replacing desks with squatting or kneeling postures to combat inactivity.

After studying a remote Tanzanian tribe who - in contrast to “industrialised societies”, do not use furniture - scientists from Californian universities found that the Hadza people were less likely to suffer from chronic diseases.

The researchers discovered that despite being sedentary for almost 10 hours each day - similar to clocking a shift in the office at the desk - the Hadza people, of the east African country of Tanzania, appeared to lack the markers of chronic diseases usually associated with long periods of sitting.

Despite remaining in “resting postures” such as sitting and kneeling for long periods of time, the hunter-gatherers did not show any signs of the health conditions associated with a sedentary lifestyle - in contrast to their counterparts in industrialised communities.

As a result, the scientists said that replacing chairs with “more sustained active rest postures” should be explored as a potential way of replicating their good health.

Writing in their paper, entitled ‘Sitting, squatting, and the evolutionary biology of human inactivity’ and published today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences journal, the researchers concluded: “Replacing chair sitting and associated muscular inactivity with more sustained active rest postures may represent a behavioral paradigm that should be explored in future experimental work.

“While squatting is not a likely alternative, spending more time in postures that elicit low-level muscle activity could lead to more beneficial health outcomes. “

Dr David Raichlen, a professor of biological sciences at the University of Southern California's Dornsife College of Letters, Arts and Sciences, and lead author on the study, aded: "Even though there were long periods of inactivity, one of the key differences we noticed is that the Hadza are often resting in postures that require their muscles to maintain light levels of activity - either in a squat or kneeling."

"Being a couch potato - or even sitting in an office chair - requires less muscle activity than squatting or kneeling,” he said.

"Since light levels of muscle activity require fuel, which generally means burning fats, then squatting and kneeling postures may not be as harmful as sitting in chairs."

Prolonged sitting has been linked to an increased risk of cardiovascular disease and death, but according to the researchers, this contradicts the evolutionary aspect which favours strategies that conserve energy.

The latest findings are based on data gathered from a hunter-gatherer population in Tanzania who wore devices that measured physical activity as well as periods of rest. They believe this is down to the "active rest postures" used by the tribe.

To find out more, the researchers looked at the data from 28 Hadza adults who wore devices, known as accelerometers, for eight days and compared it with the information gathered from previous studies that measured inactivity in modern working populations.

They found that their test subjects had high levels of physical activity for just over an hour a day alongside several hours of inactivity, between nine to 10 hours a day.

However despite remaining in resting postures for long periods of time, the Hazda people did not show any signs of the health conditions associated with a sedentary lifestyle.

The researchers said is because the Hazda squatting and kneeling uses more muscle movement than sitting on a chair. They believe these active rest postures may help "protect people from the harmful effects of inactivity".

Brian Wood, an anthropologist at the University of California, and one of the study authors, added: "Preferences or behaviours that conserve energy have been key to our species' evolutionary success.

"But when environments change rapidly, these same preferences can lead to less optimal outcomes. Prolonged sitting is one example."

The Hadza people are considered one of the last hunter-gatherer tribes in Africa and comprise of approximately 1,300 tribe members. The Hadza remain an important focus area for anthropologists, as they represent a modern link to ways of human existence and survival largely abandoned by most of humanity.

The Hadza survive by hunting their food with hand-made bows and arrows and foraging for edible plants.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...g-stay-healthy/
I'm not sure if I want to try this in the office, but as I also work from home several days a week, I might give it a try there
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