So the CICO apologists believe it's all about the laws of thermodynamics, but even they themselves believe in contradictions to the CICO theory, like...

"Some medications might cause you to gain weight, or keep you from losing weight."

(Nope, it's Calories In, Calories Out you fool! I wasn't aware that medicine could violate the laws of thermodynamics!)

"A thyroid problem could cause you to gain weight, or keep you from losing weight."

(Wrong again! CICO says people with thyroid problems are just clever gluttons and sloths. They have no willpower.)

"Estrogen can cause you to gain weight, or keep you from losing weight. That makes it harder for women to lose weight."

(Must be female privilege that lets them violate the laws of physics!)

"It gets harder to lose weight when you get older."

(The laws of thermodynamics don't have a senior's discount!)



So have I missed any others?

That's the thing, CICO is literally true. It just can't be looked at as purely a behaviour. Dr. Westman has pretty much stated that he thinks Atkins type diets mostly work through an effect on appetite. For me, I don't care, decreased appetite, increased reliance on your own body fat, all hopefully without a decrease in energy levels is enough of a metabolic advantage.

That said, whatever goes on in humans--if changing macro-ratios in any animal makes the diet less fattening/more slimming, you cannot with honesty insist that CICO in the way that it's usually applied when speaking about humans. There is not one set of laws of thermodynamics for mice, and another for humans. The calories will go somewhere in the mice, that's not in question. The kind of calories matters as well as the total calories. Animal husbandry has the concept of "feed efficiency" rave about CICO to these people, you should get a lot of blank stares.

Speaking of animals, have you ever noticed that all the fat animals eat carbs and all the skinny animals eat fat animals?

Here's another one I forgot:

"Artificial sweeteners are worse than sugar because they trick your body and cause you to eat more later."

(Those artificial sweeteners are very tricky. They can even trick the laws of thermodynamics!)

I totally agree with you, Billy. It seems everyone, including people who are supposed to have advanced education on the subject, desperately want metabolism to be like one's bank account. You have an income, you have expenses, just add them up, easy-peasy.


Your examples are "white crows", as in the saying that "all it takes is one white crow to prove that all crows aren't black." Let's just say there are way too many overweight white crows among us who'd like the health care industry to get its act together on the topic of CICO.

I think it was Gary Taubes (correct me if I'm wrong) who said, "it's not, 'you are what you eat', it's 'you are what your body does with what you eat.'"

"Sugar/HCFS is uniquely bad for you and will cause you to gain weight but the worst thing we can actually say about it is that it's empty calories, and that it's "Western"."

(Because the laws of thermodynamics care if a calorie is empty or not.)

Good thread. Simple statement: "Not all calories are the same." That's where a simple application of CICO falls short. If the human metabolism were a simple combustion engine, the laws of themodynamics would be easily applied. I can eat the equivalent in calories of sucrose or protein from beef, and my metabolism will do very different things in each case. So, CICO and the act of moving more is merely a convenient myth applied to diet fads and torturous approaches, like "The Biggest Loser," and it all falls apart when people try to sustain an initial weight loss. Sad so many actually believe and buy this stuff.

Just popped in to read this thread and not comment! But as usual, you all have very insightful posts. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Kristine, I googled the great quote you posted and it seems to be attributed to Jeff Volek. Will add it to my favorite quotes doc!

If you are what you eat then cows must be plants. Good news vegans, now you can have steak!

While I completely agree with your point (and found it funny!), It is very easy to still believe in CICO with a lot of those examples.
I mean, no one truly believes it is simply caloric intake anymore. Everyone acknowledges things like-
Caloric needs decrease with age....so that doesn't violate CICO. The body's basal metabolic rate has decreased, decreasing calories out.
The same goes for estrogen (a far storing hormone which prepares women's bodies both to get pregnant and also to nurse, which burns about 500 kcal per day).
Basically, the conditions listed wouldn't negate cico.

Also, no one questions that protein is not NOT a preferred energy source for the body, and requires a higher caloric burn to metabolize.

But, cute post! Thanks for the laugh.

Cows are not what they eat. They live off bacteria that digest what they eat along with water, salt and minerals. It's end result is an high-fat, adequate protein diet. Sound familiar?