Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low-Carb Studies & Research / Media Watch > LC Research/Media
User Name
Password
FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   ^
Old Sun, Feb-09-20, 07:37
Kristine's Avatar
Kristine Kristine is offline
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25,581
 
Plan: Primal/P:E
Stats: 171/146/150 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 119%
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Default Dr. David Unwin - Why Black Swans Matter

Why black swans matter: The difference N=1 and noticing success can make - A talk by Dr David Unwin from October of last year, posted by Low Carb Down Under.

What a funny, sweet and compassionate doctor.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2   ^
Old Sun, Feb-09-20, 10:24
Benay's Avatar
Benay Benay is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 876
 
Plan: Protein Power/Atkins
Stats: 250/167/175 Female 5 feet 6 inches
BF:
Progress: 111%
Location: Prescott, Arizona, USA
Default

Love it! Thanks

I often wonder why Atkins and the Eades didn't do the simple research on their patients that he suggests. Just collect the data!

Instead of telling us - "I have treated thousands and thousands of patients . . " Show us the data you have collected on your patients!
Reply With Quote
  #3   ^
Old Sun, Feb-09-20, 11:11
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,036
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Thank you for this link, Kristine. It's an excellent supporting presentation for the improved health that many of us low carb n=1ers have experienced. Initially, it happened through trial and error, because many of us started diet changes before recent research and confirmation that the actions taken going to a low carb WOE actually resulted in improved health. I particularly find his discussion of blood pressure revealing, because I've been able to get off HBP medications and experience a healthy blood pressure. Funnily, these results with lower BP started happening after I went strict low carb. Correlation? Per the title of Richard D. Feinman's book, the world has been turned upside down due to n=1 experiences backed up by courageous medical practitioners who are paying attention and getting the same results in their clinical practices. This is not hyperbole using the term "courageous," this is based on proof of human experiences; yet, so many in the medical community remain stuck, insistent really, in advising their patients with what has been the misguided and damaging gospel since the 1960s. Those like Dr. Unwin, while listening to patients who became convinced that the very advice they were given was literally killing them, had the guts to eschew the belief system that has harmed the health of so many people. We are making progress, one converted practitioner at a time.

Last edited by GRB5111 : Sun, Feb-09-20 at 11:17.
Reply With Quote
  #4   ^
Old Sun, Feb-09-20, 11:37
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,283
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Vermont
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
Thank you for this link, Kristine. It's an excellent supporting presentation for the improved health that many of us low carb n=1ers have experienced. Initially, it happened through trial and error, because many of us started diet changes before recent research and confirmation that the actions taken going to a low carb WOE actually resulted in improved health. I particularly find his discussion of blood pressure revealing, because I've been able to get off HBP medications and experience a healthy blood pressure. Funnily, these results with lower BP started happening after I went strict low carb. Correlation? Per the title of Richard D. Feinman's book, the world has been turned upside down due to n=1 experiences backed up by courageous medical practitioners who are paying attention and getting the same results in their clinical practices. This is not hyperbole using the term "courageous," this is based on proof of human experiences; yet, so many in the medical community remain stuck, insistent really, in advising their patients with what has been the misguided and damaging gospel since the 1960s. Those like Dr. Unwin, while listening to patients who became convinced that the very advice they were given was literally killing them, had the guts to eschew the belief system that has harmed the health of so many people. We are making progress, one converted practitioner at a time.


In a talk by Gary Taubes that is posted in DietDoctor he says that all the doctors he talked to who had advised their patients to try a low carb diet said that they could not unlearn what they had seen, their patients getting better, as those of us who have tried low carb with success have also found. We can't unlearn it.
Reply With Quote
  #5   ^
Old Sun, Feb-09-20, 12:33
Grav Grav is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,469
 
Plan: Banting
Stats: 302/187/187 Male 175cm
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: New Zealand
Default

I was there in person for this one on the Gold Coast last October, second row from the front, somewhat to his left. The simple n=1 is a subject to which we here can all individually relate I'm sure, as I found myself doing that morning. And Dr Unwin himself, as always, delivered with his usual honesty, humility and humanity.

I've said this of him before, but I'm not sure I'll ever meet anyone as genuine as Dr Unwin. He's one of those people who doesn't cultivate any sort of stage presence as such, what you see in his presentations is exactly what he's like off the stage as well. Just a really nice guy with a wonderful message of hope to share.
Reply With Quote
  #6   ^
Old Sun, Feb-09-20, 15:23
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,324
 
Plan: vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
Default

That was great! And none of us is really a simple N=1 since we have tried numerous diets and serve as our own control; I'm more like an N=35 and the results of my self study are a lot more relevant than a university study of normal weight male students. I have data showing how my metabolism reacts to diets ranging from all meat to vegan Pritikin and everything in between.

Are there really no swans that are black in England?

Last edited by deirdra : Sun, Feb-09-20 at 15:43.
Reply With Quote
  #7   ^
Old Sun, Feb-09-20, 16:09
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 19,177
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Quote:
Black Swans are found throughout Australia with the exception of Cape York Peninsula, and are more common in the south. The Black Swan has been introduced into several countries, including New Zealand, where it is now common, and is a vagrant to New Guinea.

--Australia Museum
------------------------------------
This all reminds me of the first time I sat down to read DANDR. Had to hunt down a copy at used book stores. Took a bit of searching to find used book stores. BUt I was determined. A couple women at work had lost weight in front of my eyes but could not explain the process. Well, me being of and animal nutrition background wanted the science. I had tried other diets back some 20 years but quit due to failure after failure, and that scepticism was running high as I delved into DANDR. FOr the first time felt compassion for my plight, and obesity was not my fault, and a program that worked.

Dr Atkins opened the door for all to follow. He took the beating so others could pick up the baton and carry it forward.

Im hopeful that given the presentation of this man, the tide is turning, and drum don't need to beat so loudly to be heard.

We need a thousand more doctors with the humility of this man.
Reply With Quote
  #8   ^
Old Sun, Feb-09-20, 16:41
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,324
 
Plan: vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
Default

I actually had success on Atkins in the 1970s and had the original book (DADR), but gave it away sometime later, probably when the anti-fat crusades began. I had to find it again in a used bookstore & got the 1973 paperback version - just like 1972, but with the transcripts of the Senate hearings to discredit him added at the end - quite the read. I also have versions from the 1990s (DANDR) & 2002 (DANDR w/net carbs), with different examples & insights - I'm keeping them all!
Reply With Quote
  #9   ^
Old Sun, Feb-09-20, 20:23
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 19,177
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

yup, I have several editions too. And regret giving one to someone interested in trying LC. Each was like a new book.
Reply With Quote
  #10   ^
Old Mon, Feb-10-20, 10:06
tess9132 tess9132 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 873
 
Plan: general lc
Stats: 214/146/130 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 81%
Default

I love this! I know my low carb weight loss has inspired several people to drop 50 plus pounds, come off meds, and decrease joint pain. Who knows how many their successes have inspired?

Thank you for posting.

Last edited by tess9132 : Mon, Feb-10-20 at 10:12.
Reply With Quote
  #11   ^
Old Thu, Feb-13-20, 11:53
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benay
Love it! Thanks

I often wonder why Atkins and the Eades didn't do the simple research on their patients that he suggests. Just collect the data!

Instead of telling us - "I have treated thousands and thousands of patients . . " Show us the data you have collected on your patients!



I would have liked to see that, too--but at the same time, I'm not sure it would have worked any better than the way he approached things. A medicine show works just as well for somebody who actually has the goods. Atkins was a good song and dance man.

Showing the data in such a way that the scientific community will take you seriously is sort of expensive. Getting a publisher to publish a book of data for the public is unlikely, publishers just want something snappy with a cheesecake recipe at the back.

Even Unwin's data I take with a grain of salt--do people know what diet Unwin advocates, when they first go to him? Also sometimes what's being measured is the efficacy of the practitioner in inspiring patients to adhere to the diet. The most infamous example (I hope) is the Rice diet guy whipping patients to encourage compliance. Something Atkins did do is assist Dr. Westman to do a controlled study on the diet.
Reply With Quote
  #12   ^
Old Thu, Feb-13-20, 14:46
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 19,177
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

According to Dr Westmann, Dr Atkins handed him a check to fund studies.

Running a great study is not simple. And VERY expensive.
Reply With Quote
  #13   ^
Old Fri, Feb-14-20, 06:15
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 14,606
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
Default

As much as data is important, it's a wrong move to think it would have swayed anyone invested in the Lipid Hypothesis. We have studies NOW which don't sway anyone.

Weight Watchers at its beginnings was a low carb program. Everyone Knew you ditched the bread and pasta to lose weight. Remember the bunless hamburger patty and cottage cheese on a lettuce leaf? This was the diet platter!

I didn't pick up the Atkins book to read studies. I got it because my mother told me three people in her office were on it, and were losing weight. I read it and the science made sense to me, but it wasn't the studies.

It was the people.
Reply With Quote
  #14   ^
Old Fri, Feb-14-20, 07:28
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 19,177
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
A

I didn't pick up the Atkins book to read studies. I got it because my mother told me three people in her office were on it, and were losing weight. I read it and the science made sense to me, but it wasn't the studies.

It was the people.


THAT is how I found DANDR , too ! Two women dropping weight before my eyes. But they could not explain it, just that they were doing Atkins.

I tracked down a copy, read with cynacism, read the science, and finally was freed of the guilt, it was NOT my fault I was fat. First time I could drop weight.

It was the success of the two women that changed my relationship with food.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 15:55.


Copyright © 2000-2024 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.