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  #316   ^
Old Tue, Apr-03-12, 12:53
M Levac M Levac is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,498
 
Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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Kirsteen, it looks like your parents are already eating a low carb diet, albeit higher carb than Atkins for example. Consider what is not in their diet: Soft drinks, grain-based meals, processed foods of all kinds, etc. Also consider what their parents fed them when they were kids. It must have been different from their own adult diet. Your childhood diet was closer to their adult diet than their childhood diet. As their adult diet changed, so did your adult diet change. We're not really talking about different body chemistry here. We're really talking about the evolution of diet over 75-100 years.
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  #317   ^
Old Tue, Apr-03-12, 13:54
Kirsteen's Avatar
Kirsteen Kirsteen is offline
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Posts: 3,819
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 217/145/143 Female 171cm
BF:
Progress: 97%
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Quote:
Kirsteen, it looks like your parents are already eating a low carb diet, albeit higher carb than Atkins for example. Consider what is not in their diet: Soft drinks, grain-based meals, processed foods of all kinds, etc. Also consider what their parents fed them when they were kids. It must have been different from their own adult diet. Your childhood diet was closer to their adult diet than their childhood diet. As their adult diet changed, so did your adult diet change. We're not really talking about different body chemistry here. We're really talking about the evolution of diet over 75-100 years.


That's a really interesting point, M.. Maybe I should try to do a MyPlan comparison just to see. However, having thought a bit about it, I'm still a bit baffled..

Just to elucidate. I live in the UK, and very cheap processed foods are not such a big thing here, at least in my social group, apart from kids liking McDonalds, etc.. My siblings wouldn't be seen dead in a burger joint, or eating that type of food, lol, and they don't approve of their children eating in that sort of place either. Incidentally, all my nieces and nephews are stick thin, lol. My Dad used to buy bottles of sugary, fizzy drinks, etc. but actually all our tastes are more sophisticated, plus we were all indoctrinated against sugary stuff like that by my mother, who got interested in nutrition in her forties, so would wax lyrical about Coke: "There are 5 spoonfuls of sugar in a can of coke!" etc. etc. We'd normally drink tea, coffee, bottled water and sparkling wine for special occasions, and although my mother started me on sweetened tea and sweetened coffee, I'd cut out the sugar by my mid-teens. My Dad used to make me porridge, sprinkled in sugar, and I hated it until someone served me porridge with salt, and I realised I love porridge without all the sugar. My Dad probably still has porridge, covered in milk and sugar every morning. He also loves potatoes in any form, and eats loads of them. If we have a family salad buffet, he will eat a large portion of the more starchy foods and meats, etc and after everyone is finished eating, he will take the potato salad bowl, upend it over his plate and eat the entire remaining potato salad, followed by two bowls of my mother's trifle. I once saw him cram a full-size apple pie, which would normally serve about 8 people, into his mouth at once. I wouldn't have believed that was possible, if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. My siblings and I all eat pasta, as does my dad, and we'd always make the sauces from scratch using quality meat and vegetables. Mum eats pasta too, but probably not so often. We probably all eat more cream and cheese than my parents or grandparents did. My Mum actually uses bottled pasta sauces to make chicken, and they always have stuff like bottles of ketchup and other sauces in the cupboard, whereas I don't use bottled sauces apart from pesto, soy sauce, Worcestershire sauce, etc. - anything cooked in my house is made from scratch. Sorry I gave the impression we don't cook with fresh stuff. I just meant we don't make ultra healthy soup to eat daily. None of us, apart from my younger sister, would ever consider buying cakes, scones, biscuits etc. to have in the house for general consumption.

When I talked about more ready meals, I meant good quality supermarket ready made meals with no additives (we're our mother's children), such as chicken marinated in lemon and coriander, chicken satay, quality meaty moussaka, curries, stir-fry vegetable mixes, ready-made salads, etc.- between 1-3 per week, or less. Plus we all eat out more, but at good food places. Maybe in my case some of the weight-gain was caused by carry-out curries with nan bread on the side (I don't like white rice). I piled on weight just after I moved house, when cooking fell down the priority list and I relied more heavily on carry-out food - mostly Indian and Thai. Then again, my dad eats take-away fish and chips, though my mother watches fat so eats them less. I also love potatoes, e.g. baked potatoes, but so does my dad. I think though, that I can gain weight on as little as about 60g carb per day. I gained weight on Weightwatchers Healthy Eating plan, even though I ate none of the sugary "treats" which they had factored in. I should have anticipated that though, because when I read the plan I though - "great! that's how I like to eat eat anyway", lol.

Both of my grandmothers baked regularly, and made jams and marmalades, my maternal grandmother ate cured ham and sliced meats along with white bread, butter, jam, pancakes, scones and cakes for "high tea" every night. During wartime rationing, my gran was ultra-popular and got extra everything, so my mum was able to make cakes and sweets like treacle toffee to supplement my gran's baking. Maybe that's why she developed such a sweet tooth. Scotland has historically had a bad reputation for eating a lot of sugar, and my gran was never slim, though she seemed to stay the same weight all her life. My paternal grandmother baked too, but probably more for visitors than herself. She made preserves, including sugary cordials and wines. She also made home-made sweets, and gave them away as gifts at Christmas. My maternal grandmother did make soup, as did my mother. And maybe that's something all my generation stopped doing. I have always made soup (or had it made for for me), but not as regularly as my mother. But the ultra healthy thick green vegetable soup my mum makes tastes too healthy to me, lol. I eat lots of different soups, but soup isn't a staple part of my diet, whereas my parents eat a couple of large bowls of soup thick with several green vegetables - often kale, spring cabbage and leek, plus lentils etc., most days for lunch. My grandmother's soup wasn't like that - hers was a traditional broth, made from bones, vegetables and barley or lentils, but she probably ate it every day of her life at lunchtime, followed by a plate of meat and two veg.

I just don't understand it.. My generation have all been workers, so we didn't have the time to do as much cooking as my mother, so we haven't made so much home-made soup, etc., and we have been inclined to do more indulgent cookery, such as creamy sauces, etc. We probably eat more dairy foods, particularly cheese. My mum would buy 1lb cheap mild cheddar or cheaper processed cheese for a family of 6 for a week. We'd buy three times that amount of extra mature cheddar and a variety of other more expensive specialist cheeses, goat's cheese, cottage cheese, etc.. and we all eat yoghurt. (Mind you, I didn't eat that much cheese, apart from cottage cheese, before I went on the Atkins diet.) I never saw cheese or yoghurt in either of my grandmother's homes. We probably all cook creamy sauces from time to time. My mother wouldn't dream of cooking with cream. She thinks it's empty calories. My parents also have better access to fresh fish, so they eat more fish. Mum and Dad eat white fish twice a week, and Mum lives on salmon, liver pate, chicken, healthy soup, vegetables and refined carbs the rest of the week. Dad eats lean red meat, potatoes and carbs rather than Mum's choice of salmon, chicken and liver. The rest of us don't have such easy access to fresh fish, and I think we probably eat dairy instead of the fish, and perhaps more pasta main meals, so you are correct about that, although Dad's daily heaped bowls of ice-cream surely contain some dairy and the two of them have a fair amount of refined carbs in their daily diet.

On reflection, maybe the biggest difference is that we have been eating more dairy to compensate for less fish, and that has led to us eating a more calorific diet. When I started the Atkins diet, I introduced far more fish into my diet by using Dr. Atkins' lists. I'd actually have said that we eat more fat, so that must be the problem.. but I lose weight on Atkins, eating far more fat and oils than before. I think the culprit might be higher calories caused by more dairy fats, combined with the carbs. So in a way, the nutritionists who blame the fats or calories are not far wrong. There is no doubt in my mind, however, that in my case, cutting out the carbs helps me to lose weight, whereas trying to cut out fats makes me ill. In my own case, however, I was always slim until I became extremely ill with an illness which affected my blood-sugar regulation, plus a disability which left me bedridden and unable to exercise.. I also ate too much chocolate at times, due to gifts from visitors to my sick bed. :/ But I still think that there is something in that home-made soup.. I have ordered kale from a local organic place, and I am boosting the greens in my diet, to check it out.

Do you think I am missing something, or is what you said still relevant to that scenario, M?

Last edited by Kirsteen : Wed, Apr-04-12 at 05:27.
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  #318   ^
Old Thu, Apr-05-12, 02:34
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Kirsteen Kirsteen is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,819
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 217/145/143 Female 171cm
BF:
Progress: 97%
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This post is pretty much what I was wondering yesterday as I wrote my previous entry.. I maybe didn't say as much, but I was wondering whether the problem might be related to a combination of dairy fats and carbohydrate.

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  #319   ^
Old Thu, Apr-05-12, 03:25
M Levac M Levac is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,498
 
Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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It just turned into a help desk discussion.

You read Atkins so you know it's not the calories. Could be cheese but not because of calories. I think Atkins warned about cheese. It's not the combination of fat and carbs either. Fat slows down digestion so it reduces the BG hit, therefore the insulin hit. In fact, if you're gonna eat carbs, you should eat fat too. Fat is also more satisfying so if you eat more of it, you eat less of everything else. The error comes when you think reducing fat is a good idea. It's never a good idea. That's what happened 30 years ago, we reduced fat and look where it got us. Fat is food, fat is satisfying, fat is good.
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  #320   ^
Old Thu, Apr-05-12, 09:14
Kirsteen's Avatar
Kirsteen Kirsteen is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,819
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 217/145/143 Female 171cm
BF:
Progress: 97%
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Quote:
The error comes when you think reducing fat is a good idea. It's never a good idea. That's what happened 30 years ago, we reduced fat and look where it got us. Fat is food, fat is satisfying, fat is good.


I agree absolutely, of course. As I put on weight, I tried to reduce more and more of the things the "experts" said were causing the problem: I'd never eaten a lot of refined carbs, so I reduced oils, butter, red meat, chicken.. the longer I went, the more I cut out and the more vegetables I ate. Turning all that on its head changing everything around, and I was able to lose quite well on more calories and 70% fat.

I just don't understand how my parents can eat what they eat and maintain a normal weight, where all their children are not experiencing the same. I am not saying we are perfect - we all tipple from time to time and are not strangers to chocolate. My brother attributes his extra weight to eating too much, plus he drinks quite a bit. But my sister has never eaten or drunk a lot.

I am definitely increasing the greens in my diet, to see if that can give me a metabolic/health boost. My first delivery of kale arrives tomorrow.

Thanks very much for taking the time to read over my lengthy posts and to reply.

Last edited by Kirsteen : Thu, Apr-05-12 at 09:21.
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  #321   ^
Old Thu, Apr-12-12, 12:31
JRevisited JRevisited is offline
New Member
Posts: 4
 
Plan: Paleo
Stats: 240/150/145 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 95%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirsteen
I just don't understand how my parents can eat what they eat and maintain a normal weight, where all their children are not experiencing the same. I am not saying we are perfect - we all tipple from time to time and are not strangers to chocolate. My brother attributes his extra weight to eating too much, plus he drinks quite a bit. But my sister has never eaten or drunk a lot.


My mother is exactly the same way. She's 5'6' so only about an inch shorter than I am, but she has never been over 120 lbs or so. Ever. I'm a more muscular frame in general so I sit in the 145-150 zone (now that I've returned to a normal weight thanks to paleo), but I remember sitting there with her at the dinner table and eating exactly the same thing she was and yet somehow, I ended up at 240 lbs. That was the day I decided something was wrong.

I stopped eating the things she does, and the weight melted away as if it never was. Now I eat easily double the calories I used to and probably triple what she is, but I look more like her now. It defies logic, or at least, conventional logic.

The only explanation I have is that with each generation, the storing of fat becomes more efficient and its helped along by processed foods that lend themselves well to the task. Human evolution is rebelling against the direction we are trying to force it in.
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