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  #61   ^
Old Thu, Nov-16-06, 20:23
Whoa182's Avatar
Whoa182 Whoa182 is offline
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Plan: CRON / Zone
Stats: 118/110/110 Male 5ft 7"
BF:very low
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Thank you for reminding me of a study!

In mice they altered some mechanism to give them higher glucose levels while on CR. But higher glucose didn't lessen their extra longevity mice get from CR. This experiment was actually done very recently, maybe 2-3 years ago to find out if glucose level in CR rodents made any significant contribution to longevity.

EDIT: Looking for it... and will post when I found.

EDIT2: My memory on this is very vague because at the time I didn't understand the paper properly... I'm sure it was done on mice =/ But lets see.

Last edited by Whoa182 : Thu, Nov-16-06 at 20:45.
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  #62   ^
Old Thu, Nov-16-06, 20:51
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
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I keep wondering what is so different about mammals and chicken or fish that the meat of one would cause cancer? It just doesn't add up.
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  #63   ^
Old Fri, Nov-17-06, 10:28
kaypeeoh kaypeeoh is offline
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The beef on your table came from a feedlot. That's where the steers are crowded together. Female hormones are injected to suppress fighting instincts. Antibiotics are used to prevent infections from spreading in the confined space. It's done to improve the bottom line. These treatments aren't used for chickens or farm-raised fish. It's not cost-effective in those cases.
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  #64   ^
Old Fri, Nov-17-06, 11:36
Demi's Avatar
Demi Demi is offline
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Plan: Muscle Centric
Stats: 238/153/160 Female 5'10"
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Just received a newsletter from Dr John Briffa, which contained the following article:



Quote:
Red meat under fire again, but does it cause cancer?

Many of you will be aware that red meat has some bas press again, this time because of a supposed link with an increased risk of breast cancer. A study published this week in the Archives of Internal Medicine has revealed, we are warned, that pre-menopausal women eating red meat are at an increased risk of breast cancer [1]. Yet, again, red meat is painted as a major dietary spectre that we consume at our peril. But before we swallow these research findings whole without thinking, my suggestion is that we take a deeper look at this study and its findings.

The study in question is what is known as an ‘epidemiological’ study – where associations are looked for between certain factors as disease. In this case, the headline grabber was that red meat consumption is associated with an increased risk of breast cancer in pre-menopausal women.

However, just because two things are ‘associated’ doesn’t necessarily mean one causes the other. Many health conscious individuals deliberately reduce their consumption of red meat, while non-health conscious individuals tend not to. It could be, therefore, that those eating more red meat might be subject to other factors which are the true causes of their increased risk of breast cancer such as higher alcohol consumption and lower intake of protective foods such as vegetables. In the study in question, other risk factors for breast cancer such as these were not factored into the equation, which significantly weakens its findings.

Also, what the study actually found was an association between red meat and a certain type of cancer known as hormone ‘hormone-dependent’ breast cancer. Hormone-dependent cancers (those whose growth is stimulated by hormones such as oestrogen and progesterone) are not the only type of breast cancer. When all types of breast cancer were grouped together, the apparent association between red meat and breast cancer disappeared.

And there’s something else about the findings of this study which suggest that red meat has been unfairly incriminated (again). If we look at the detail of this study we find that for intakes of red meat up to five portions a week (which some might regard as quite a lot of red meat), there was no associated increased risk of hormone-dependent breast cancer. With intakes from about 5 – 7 portions per week there was, however (risk increase was 42 per cent). And a statistically significant increased risk was also found for intakes higher than about 10 portions per week. But the curious thing is that for intakes of 7-10 portions of red meat a week, there was no statistically significant increased risk of hormone dependent breast cancer.

In other words, what this study appears to show is that at quite decent levels of red meat intake there is no increased risk. As intakes rise, though, the risk becomes significant. Oh, but hang on a moment, at even higher intakes any significant risk disappears (only to return at still higher intakes). Does this sound like convincing evidence to you?

And all this gets even less convincing when you consider the results of a review of several studies (not just one) which found no association between red meat consumption and breast cancer risk [2]. What’s even more bizarre about all this is that the research department that produced this review (The Harvard School of Public Health in the USA) also had a hand in the recent rubbishy piece of research that’s had all the press.

What is it about researchers that lead them to churn out this sort of research and feed it to the press? Were the researchers themselves really blind to the woeful deficiencies of this study? Did they perhaps not think of stressing the inconsistency of the results and the fact that they are not in keeping with the body of evidence in the area?

I’m not sure I know how or why this sort of thing happens. However, I do think it’s at least worth bearing in mind that scientific and medical publishing is a competitive arena, and there’s much kudos (and even funding) to be had from having an academic department that publishes regular, meaningful (supposedly) results. My suggestion is that some researchers might be better off, for all our sakes, concentrating on quality, rather than quantity.

References:

1. Cho E, et al. Red meat consumption and risk of breast cancer among premenopausal women. Archives of Internal Medicine. 2006;166:2253-2259

2. Missmer SA, et al. Meat and dairy food consumption and breast cancer: a pooled analysis of cohort studies. International Journal of Epidemiology 2002;31(1):78-85.

http://www.drbriffa.com/blog/2006/1...-breast-cancer/
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  #65   ^
Old Sat, Nov-18-06, 07:10
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Svetlana Svetlana is offline
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Out of curiosity, how many of you plan to or have considered moderating your red meat intake, just to be on the safe side? Or would you change nothing about your eating habits?
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  #66   ^
Old Sat, Nov-18-06, 07:31
paleowoman paleowoman is offline
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Plan: low carb paleo/nt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svetlana
Out of curiosity, how many of you plan to or have considered moderating your red meat intake, just to be on the safe side? Or would you change nothing about your eating habits?



I'm not abandoning red meat or changing my consumption habits in terms of frequency (I am cutting portion sizes down though but not because of this study -- because of all the evidence pointing to the benefits of CR) -- I love red meat -- lamb, buffalo, goat, beef, venison -- if it's red, I'll eat it -- as rare/bloody as possible !

Last edited by paleowoman : Sat, Nov-18-06 at 07:55.
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  #67   ^
Old Sat, Nov-18-06, 08:03
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ReginaW ReginaW is offline
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Plan: Atkins/Controlled Carb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svetlana
Out of curiosity, how many of you plan to or have considered moderating your red meat intake, just to be on the safe side? Or would you change nothing about your eating habits?


I personally don't think the findings across a large number of studies builds a strong enough case - almost always processed meats are included in the red meat category.

99% of the time, I don't eat commercial meats - I know my farmer and know how the cattle is raised at their farm. On the occassions where I do eat out and can't order pastured/grass-fed, I'm not concerned it.

I honestly think it comes down to overall quality of the diet, not one specific food type in the diet...countries with worse rates of breast cancer eat significantly less red meat than we do. Things we share in common with the top ten countries for breast cancer incidence - sugar consumption - it's high in both absolute intake and percentage of calories when compared with countries with the lowest incidence rates.
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  #68   ^
Old Sat, Nov-18-06, 10:21
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lizzyLC lizzyLC is offline
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Regina - which countries have the highest rates? I thought I heard or read that countries with really high dairy consumption tend to have more breast cancer as well.
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  #69   ^
Old Sat, Nov-18-06, 12:29
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CindySue48 CindySue48 is offline
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Plan: Atkins/Protein Power
Stats: 256/179/160 Female 68 inches
BF:38.9/27.2/24.3
Progress: 80%
Location: Triangle NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svetlana
Out of curiosity, how many of you plan to or have considered moderating your red meat intake, just to be on the safe side? Or would you change nothing about your eating habits?
I'm not changing a thing! I feel so much better eating the way I do, with red meat at least 4-5 times a week and lots of eggs. I also eat chicken, but it's not my favorite meat....red meat tastes better and it so much more satisfying!

OK...I do plan to try and buy more grass fed beef, but right now the budget won't allow it too often.
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  #70   ^
Old Sat, Nov-18-06, 13:31
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svetlana
Out of curiosity, how many of you plan to or have considered moderating your red meat intake, just to be on the safe side? Or would you change nothing about your eating habits?

Not me. My common sense tells me that beef raised non-organically with hormones and antibiotics is probably the issue here. Not other animals that are raised without hormones. I don't eat beef all that often, I prefer chicken and pork and lamb. Beef tastes kind of blah to me.
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  #71   ^
Old Sat, Nov-18-06, 17:21
ReginaW's Avatar
ReginaW ReginaW is offline
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Plan: Atkins/Controlled Carb
Stats: 275/190/190 Female 72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lizzyLC
Regina - which countries have the highest rates? I thought I heard or read that countries with really high dairy consumption tend to have more breast cancer as well.


Off the top of my head....(I know there are others).....

Neatherlands, Belgium, Iceland, Denmark, NZ, Ireland....

Oh, and yeah, they all have high milk consumption (as do we) too.
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  #72   ^
Old Sat, Nov-18-06, 18:05
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Scarlet Scarlet is offline
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Plan: Gluten free wholefoods
Stats: 173/145/147 Female 5"4.5 inches
BF:37/?/25
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It's funny because in Europe the opposite is true, there are more hormones found in poultry than in beef or lamb.
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  #73   ^
Old Sat, Nov-18-06, 18:21
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ItsTheWooo ItsTheWooo is offline
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Plan: My Own
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svetlana
Out of curiosity, how many of you plan to or have considered moderating your red meat intake, just to be on the safe side? Or would you change nothing about your eating habits?


Seeing as I already eat a moderate cal diet which is not high in red meat, I am not worried at all. I eat probably as much red meat as the average person. Combined with the super low carb intake , low weight, and moderate claories, my chances of developing a hyperanabolic disease condition (like cancer) are slim to none.
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  #74   ^
Old Sat, Nov-18-06, 21:35
MyJourney's Avatar
MyJourney MyJourney is offline
Butter Tastes Better
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Plan: Atkins OWL / IF-23/1 /BFL
Stats: 100/100/100 Female 5'6"
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Progress: 34%
Location: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svetlana
Out of curiosity, how many of you plan to or have considered moderating your red meat intake, just to be on the safe side? Or would you change nothing about your eating habits?


I love red meat but I probably eat it less than once a week. I find that I eat and crave it more during TOM otherwise I eat chicken, which I also love, find more versatile and more cost effective considering the only red meats I eat regulary are ribeye steaks or lamb chops.

I do buy grass fed steaks from whole foods but not all the time.

I am certainly not going to change my eating habits over this. I believe I probably have a higher chance of getting cancer through dental x-rays than I do red meat.

Just about everything is considered carcinogenic now anyways.
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