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  #61   ^
Old Tue, Mar-07-06, 18:17
potatofree's Avatar
potatofree potatofree is offline
Fully Caffeinated
Posts: 17,245
 
Plan: Back to Atkins
Stats: 298/228/160 Female 5ft9in
BF:?/35/?
Progress: 51%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladegem
Finding something more rewarding than food doesn't "cure" a weight problem. I know lots of overweight people who lead lives filled with service to others, case example being two ladies who go to Africa on a service expedition 3 times a year. They still eat every day, and still eat too much food/wrong kinds of food. Both have made admirable efforts to lose weight. Both have admitted to an unhealthy relationship with food. Both are in stable marriages and constantly volunteer for the less fortunate and ENJOY it...probably what you would call "fulfilled" lives.

Getting a hobby isn't going to fix a food problem--it IS more complex than that.


That's why I said it was "one of the answers" and not "The One Answer".

Sometimes, people get so absorbed in their own drama and diet, they lose awareness that a half-pound of buttfat is NOT the end of the world.
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  #62   ^
Old Tue, Mar-07-06, 22:25
TheCaveman's Avatar
TheCaveman TheCaveman is offline
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Posts: 1,429
 
Plan: Angry Paleo
Stats: 375/205/180 Male 6'3"
BF:
Progress: 87%
Location: Sacramento, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gstout
Pay? They'd chase off the minimum wage, part-time workers without health insurance or retirement plans and then pig out.


Heh, okay you were joking. Sorry, I missed the sarcasm!
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  #63   ^
Old Tue, Mar-07-06, 23:02
TheCaveman's Avatar
TheCaveman TheCaveman is offline
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Posts: 1,429
 
Plan: Angry Paleo
Stats: 375/205/180 Male 6'3"
BF:
Progress: 87%
Location: Sacramento, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValerieL
You still haven't said explicitly that the Argentine sheep herders have lower cortisol levels than Buenos Aires professionals, though I suppose that given your assertion that the data suggests there is more stress in modern life than in life 100 years ago, I can assume that the Argentine sheep herders are meant to represent life 100 years ago and the data shows they have lower cortisol readings.


Ooops, then yes, the cityfolk did test with higher markers of stress than the country folk. But my question still stands, mostly because I haven't given it TOO much thought: Can we project the data for modern rural people onto our great-grandparents who lived more rurally than we do?

Certainly, we could have guessed that people who's job it is to watch sheep eat are not stressed out. (I'd like to think that I could find the Argentina study, but a few minutes' search on the web was fruitless, and I think I read it in a journal anyhow.) There are quite a few elements in the modern environement that we know increase our stress response that those shepherds don't experience, and nor did anyone a hundred years ago. (Man, I need to remember where I saw that.)

I've seen data on samples taken from people in cars. Seems as though being in a car is very stressful, even though I don't really feel stressed in the car. The researchers noted that passengers tested at higher levels than the drivers did.

Of course my main contention is that while we may or may not have more stress than people 100 years ago, we may be less capable of mitigating that stress today. And we may be MORE capable of mitigating today, getting rid of our stress, but harming ourselves in the extreme ways we choose to mitigate extreme stress.
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  #64   ^
Old Wed, Mar-08-06, 07:45
Bakerchic's Avatar
Bakerchic Bakerchic is offline
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Posts: 145
 
Plan: Moderate low-carb
Stats: 186/140/135 Female 5"5
BF:OnebigAB
Progress: 90%
Location: PA baby!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsTheWooo
Bakerchic what you are describing is exactly the kind of situation I"m describing. Ask yourself WHY is there nothing to do but eat. Is it because our lives consist entirely else of obligations and a lack of time to cultivate yourself?

A stressful unnatural lifestyle encourages food abuse, and, it also encourages the physiological processes that facilitate obesity. The word stress assumes a direct, obvious source of adversity - working sun up to sun down is stress. Stress is more complex than that. I am defining (excessive) stress as any factor which retards or prevents ideal health. Stress could also be a deprivation of emotionally fulfilling relationships with humans (for example, no family meal like you said). It could be our throwaway consumer culture conditioning us to unnaturally always look for the next and the largest, therefore preventing ever feeling fulfilled (and thus the perfect consumer is born). If that first big mac didn't hit the spot, get another. Eat and eat until you feel sick, and then, learn to associate that feeling with satisfaction (since you have no idea how to really perceive pleasure and enjoy yourself in any real way, since you have been conditioned to ignore value/substance...)

I am kinda confusing the point and probably others since I seem to use physical and psychological causes of obesity interchangably. One minute I talk about a psychological result (stresses and eating), the next a physical one (stresses and metabolic syndrome). I should also mention that I don't think the two are compartmentalized and that mental health is often a product of physical health, and physical health is affected by mental health.


Bakerchic, it sounds like what youa re saying is pretty much reaffirms my theory that eating problems (and obesity/health too) are the result of stress and unnatural/unhealthy living.

Would it be accurate to say your new lifestyle is:
1) Less stressful (because it)...
2) Allows you the freedom to be more you, and is less about the external obligations and confines of others and environment?


Yes, exactly! Some people have no idea the effort you have to put into a lifestyle change. And most people, sorry if I'm incorrect, don't have a clue about the physiological responses/changes to diet as well. Probably because we're fed the mantra, "Eat less, weigh less" time and again. Frankly, I don't see how I could make it back in my old environment, and I doubt I would. There were too many emotional cues. If anybody thinks food isn't addictive, then I really don't know what to tell them, but I can say this; I have drawn a lot of similarities between me and a heroin junkie, too many to be coincidental. And am I correct in saying that addictions are physiological and psychological? So I am with you Woo, don't compartmentalize them, they're twins.

Also, anyone with food addictions out there- Do you ever notice that your cues operate on a time frame. Mine is around 7 o'clock, and I get very specific cravings for certain foods. Ice Cream namely, but it rarely varies. It's weird. Also, I get one in the early morn, for maple syrup. I mean, it makes common sense, syrup being a part of a breakfast entree, but one time, and this is real nasty- I was coming off a diet, and got the craving for it, so intense, I drank about a cup full. No joke. Maybe I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill, but I found that too odd to dismiss.
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  #65   ^
Old Wed, Mar-08-06, 08:10
Bakerchic's Avatar
Bakerchic Bakerchic is offline
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Posts: 145
 
Plan: Moderate low-carb
Stats: 186/140/135 Female 5"5
BF:OnebigAB
Progress: 90%
Location: PA baby!
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Wow, the immigrant pictures are striking. I've also seen ones of chubby indians as well, and that always struck me as odd. How could they be chunky chasing buffalo and hunting all the time? Is there other historical accounts of an obese population. I've heard that Egyptians suffered from diabetes and heart disease and some were fat, though I don't know how true that is. I know overeating is documented in history, and a medieval cure was to eat fatty, greasy foods. I'm not sure if this is correct, but even the word bulimia comes from the greek word bulimos which means hungry like the ox. Don't know what the factors were in their food addiction, but would it be safe to say stress was certainly one of them?
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  #66   ^
Old Wed, Mar-08-06, 12:13
danabear's Avatar
danabear danabear is offline
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Posts: 497
 
Plan: whole foods (mostly)
Stats: 210/194/160 Female 5'8
BF:a little lower
Progress: 32%
Location: Texas
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My family was overweight back as far as my great-great grandmother. The pictures look much like the examples above. They had a farm, and worked very hard, and were poor. Great- Grandma had a heart attack at 50. She died in the 1940's. I think there are more overweight people now, but we also think 35 is young and we're supposed to look the way we did when we were 18. (Believe me, I'm gonna try) But then 35 was considered middle aged, and I think it was accepted to be a little heavier at an older age, not just by your height/weight chart.
In ancient Greece didn't they have urns to purge into in puplic areas so they could keep feasting? I remember hearing that somewhere.
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  #67   ^
Old Wed, Mar-08-06, 20:47
Bakerchic's Avatar
Bakerchic Bakerchic is offline
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Posts: 145
 
Plan: Moderate low-carb
Stats: 186/140/135 Female 5"5
BF:OnebigAB
Progress: 90%
Location: PA baby!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danabear
In ancient Greece didn't they have urns to purge into in puplic areas so they could keep feasting? I remember hearing that somewhere.


I know in Rome they had vomitoriums for that kind of behavior. I think they are still there in the Collosseum. That's what my history teacher told me anyway. So there really must be nothing new under the sun.
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  #68   ^
Old Tue, Dec-10-19, 19:52
e tolle jr e tolle jr is offline
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Posts: 95
 
Plan: lchf
Stats: 266/249.8/199 Male 5/11
BF:waist 56 inches
Progress: 24%
Location: crab orchard,ky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by potatofree
All this talk of how society is responsible for the obesity epidemic has really made me think. I know exactly what it is that led me to my weight problem...

It's those darn starving kids in China.

Every time I didn't clean my plate, I got reminded of the starving kids in China who would be grateful for what I was wasting... the guilt and shame clearly have scarred me for life.

I knew it was society, and not my own choices that did it.

great post!
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  #69   ^
Old Fri, Dec-27-19, 05:42
Benay's Avatar
Benay Benay is offline
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Posts: 498
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 200/190/175 Female 5 feet 6 inches
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: Prescott, Arizona, USA
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Nature or nurture

Obesity is an issue with domestic pets as well and they don't have our emotional range

I have just adopted 2 male cats - 11 years old - litter brothers. They were on self feeding of dry food, so I have continued that.
One cat is at the food dish frequently during the day, his brother is not. The foodie also has a very large tummy and his brother does not

I think we blame ourselves and our emotions too frequently and forget that we all have different metabolisms and genes.

I don't deny that i eat when I am not hungry - that there are a lot of triggers that cause me to find something to eat. The smell of the bakery counter at the grocery store, reading books that frequently talk about food and meals, watching films or TV where people are eating - all trigger a desire for food.

Good thread
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  #70   ^
Old Fri, Dec-27-19, 07:15
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 12,260
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/123/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 139%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benay
Nature or nurture

Obesity is an issue with domestic pets as well and they don't have our emotional range

I have just adopted 2 male cats - 11 years old - litter brothers. They were on self feeding of dry food, so I have continued that.



Will they eat canned? Cats are obligate carnivores, and that protein percentage in the dry food is based very much on counting vegetable sources. Which cats cannot digest.

In my cat rescue, I found that cats with a "famine background" would self-control if allowed to eat as much as they wanted, and when the food was actually nutritious for them.
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  #71   ^
Old Fri, Dec-27-19, 09:33
jschwab jschwab is offline
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Posts: 6,215
 
Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/214/200 Female 5 feet 5.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 84%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drjanni
From my understanding of US social history, "back in the day" when women were forced to sit at home and be "mommy" all day and have dinner on the table by the time dad got home . . . there were a whole lot of unfullfilled, lonely, depressed women taking medications to keep them "happy" with the life they were handed. Personally, I'd rather live in today's society (as a woman) in which I actually have choices about what to do with my life. Health isn't simply about physical well-being or an ideal BMI; its about self-fullfillment, happiness, and the freedom to make choices about ones own life. Now, that ideal health certainly isn't being achieved by everyone (not by a long shot), but I think it far more attainable today than in any other point in history.


I dunno, half my mom friends are slinging back pills and binge drinking to make up for the void. And the work of childrearing and homemaking is still all on them. But probably to a lesser degree than any other time, for sure.
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  #72   ^
Old Fri, Dec-27-19, 09:54
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 12,260
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/123/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 139%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jschwab
I dunno, half my mom friends are slinging back pills and binge drinking to make up for the void. And the work of childrearing and homemaking is still all on them.


One definitely has something to do with the other.

Housewifery is not a natural human state. In tribes the children are held close on a sling where they can feed on demand. When older they run in peer group packs. Still a lot of repetitive work, but done in groups with a lot of socializing.

I was the oldest girl who helped raise siblings and babysat considerably. I knew exactly what was involved, I'd already done it for years, decided not to pursue that goal.
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  #73   ^
Old Fri, Dec-27-19, 11:22
jschwab jschwab is offline
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Posts: 6,215
 
Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/214/200 Female 5 feet 5.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 84%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
One definitely has something to do with the other.

Housewifery is not a natural human state. In tribes the children are held close on a sling where they can feed on demand. When older they run in peer group packs. Still a lot of repetitive work, but done in groups with a lot of socializing.

I was the oldest girl who helped raise siblings and babysat considerably. I knew exactly what was involved, I'd already done it for years, decided not to pursue that goal.


Totally agree. It's so much worse now with kids not really socializing in peer groups (not allowed).
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  #74   ^
Old Fri, Dec-27-19, 12:04
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
Posts: 11,637
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/188/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 44%
Location: Texas
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I just had a conversation with someone the other day about all of the fertility clinics that have popped up where I live. It's due to the fact that 30-40 year olds have waited too long to have children.
So, there's that aspect.
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  #75   ^
Old Sat, Dec-28-19, 04:51
Benay's Avatar
Benay Benay is offline
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Posts: 498
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 200/190/175 Female 5 feet 6 inches
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: Prescott, Arizona, USA
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Just a point of correction Werebear

Not all indigenous tribes use a sling to carry their babies
Native Americans used a cradleboard
Useful when bending over to dig up roots and vegetation or stoke fires
Babies had to be taken out of the cradleboard to be fed and cleaned
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