New here! Have been looking over posts. Posted on the general board but sounds like the diabetics are all here! I am T2 (insulin deficient). Dx in January, 2003. Have been researching for months. Started on the usual ADA diet and insulin. MD had me pegged as T1.5ish(heading to T1) due to my thin presentation. Very long story here......currently seeing endo, on metformin and actos. stopped insulin 8 weeks ago. No GAD antibodies. Lousy phase 1 response! Needless to say, low carbing for about 8 weeks now. Had been reducing them over the months prior with improving BS. Do well during the day but that darn dawn phen. has really been a pain! Have tried altering my carbs/protein/fat at night but can't seem to get it right. Would appreciate any suggestions. Thanks!

Hi startover and welcome:
i'm type 2 and IR, and can't get rid of the DP too. a lot of folks are struggling with this problem, specially low carbing. it's the liver which makes sugar before dawn and doesn't know when to stop. it's toughest probelm for most fo the diabetics. for it's the only problem. sorry, not much of a help here.
regards,
dina

First of all, thanks for the reply, Dina. Now my next question. Anyone here on glucophage who takes the whole dose at bedtime? I am on 2000mg/day and I currently split it 500am/1500 bedtime. Was wondering if taking the whole dose at bedtime would help DP? Seems a bit lower since I did this change. Just wondering! Thanks, Pat

sorry can't help with this, i'm not on any meds.

http://www.diabetes-normalsugars.com/

This is Dr. Bernstein's site and they also address it there.

Some people have found it helps to have fat at bedtime, like a tablespoon of butter. Others have reported having 4 ounces of extra dry wine or such helps also.

You might go there and search around for more things or post with your medications and see if anyone there has any suggestions.

Also, do you have his newest book? I know in the older one he addresses it.

Let us know how you are doing.

Debi

Not at bedtime, but I took my whole dose of 1000 mg. of Glucophage XR at dinnertime. It didn't seem to do much for the DP, but I have nothing to compare against, either. The DP did eventually clear up on its own after several months of low carb. I can't say that my fastings are always my lowest readings of the day, but they're not the highest, either.

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one with this problem. it's driving me NUTS. When I was pg, eating some protein at bedtime seemed to help, alas, it does'nt help now. One mornin I had two great readings out of the four in a day, the next day they are all high - but i ate almost the same. ARGH.

As I find more and more low carb recipes I hope to control it and not need to go on meds, but I have to find a way to get that fasting sugar down!!!

Hi ClassyOne:
it drives me nuts too but it's hard to figure out what contributes to DP. i'm trying diffrent stuff, and sometimes alcohol works but overall it's unpredictable. some folks take metformin and it helps, i'm still trying to control it with diet and exercise alone. but for me the lower i go on carbs, the higher my FBG. liver makes most of the BS before down is there is insulin deficiency or insulin resistance. anyway, for me it ranges from 115 -140 depending on TOM. may be it'll clrear on it's own when you and I) lose more weight. hope so.
cheers

Here is hoping.
I don't know if mine is insulin resistant or what. I do know that taking chromium has helped a great deal, even with the morning fasting bg's. now it's remembering to take it... But even at that, they are higher than I like. For us here in canada, it should be around 4 or 5. My good ones are 6's, most are 7's and I have some higher than that. had one 5.3 but no idea why. It's SO frustrating. makes it hard not to eat stuff I shouldn't when eating the way I should doesn't help, ya know?

Our weight starting points and desired goals are so close to the same!!!

Thanks everyone. I checked out the Bernstein site and added my question. I have read his book too but have not found the right answer for myself yet. Will keep trying. Gonna try a spoon of butter tonight before bed!

You know, my fasting didn't change a bit since i've lost this weight. i'm sure that i'm IR but the only way to tell is the get your fasting insulin checked. mine was 13 after 9 hours of fast, and it should be 4-6.however, the test results showed a range of 4-29, so according to the range, i'm normal. but my c-peptide is normal too, and i have no islets antibodies, meaning i'm still making enoguh insulin. BTW, are taking GTF chromium and what is daily dose. i'm taking it too but (250 X2) but thinking to upt the dose. all other supllements make my FBG go higher. i've lost this weight too fast,a nd afraid i'll regain it back. i've switched to life without bread plan, feel better and easy to stick too. for me too much fat, especially in a form of cream and bacon, raises my FBG too.
Reagrds,
Dina

I've been vigorously low carbing since May with great results but also had the dawn effect, but mine was mid morning. I take Glucophage XR at evening. Finally, in the last two weeks, no more spikes in the morning. I think Lisa is right, be patient and your body will adjust.

Wayne

Don't confuse the dawn phenomenon with gluconeogenesis. The dawn phenomenon is the deactivation of circulating insulin by the liver. It happens during the pre-dawn hours. Gluconeogenesis is the synthesis by the liver of glucose from available amino acids obtained from the breakdown of protein. It can happen at any time of the day.

The only thing which has proven effective for me in lowering fasting readings is alpha lipoic acid taken with evening primrose oil. I take 2/3 of Dr. Bernstein's recommended dose. (He recommends 1800 mg/day of alpha lipoic and 3000 mg/day evening primrose oil.) It takes a week or two to kick in, but it lowered my fasting reading by 20 mg/dl.

i've tried ALA +EPO at recommended amounts for two weeks and got even higher FBG readings. in addition, ALAS made me hungry all the time, i've strated eating more to compensate and started to gain fat on my waist. plus non-stop stomach burning pain, which was pretty intense, think was due to exsessive insulin. it took me a few weeks to get rid of all this sympthoms and stop the weight gain. EPO doesn't do any damage if taken alone but for me ALA is definetely no no. and i ve been taking the sustained version as per Dr.B
my guess is ALA does works like insulin in a body and since I have enough insulin in my system already, the excess is even making it worse. to dampen DP i need arounf 70 grams of carbs daily, otherwise, FBG will be at 135-150 range. everyone is different. now at least it hanging at 110, which is much better than before. and nomore stomach burning too.
thanks,
dina

This is true only in regard to glucose transport. There the similarity ends. ALA does not, as insulin does, cause the liver to manufacture body fat. I get to "have my cake and eat it too", so to speak. ALA brings my sugar down without the negative side effects of more insulin.