submitted for comment:

ketosis discussion

i'm particularly interested in his comments that once in ketosis for a while the body needs so little glucose that ketones no longer get excreted and therefore the strips don't turn purple anymore even though ketones are still heavily produced. agree? disagree? reason?

In the early phase of a ketosis diet the body doesn't have enough enzymes to make use of ketones. So the excess spills into urine. In time the enzymes develop and the ketones are used, no longer wasted. If one is seeing ketones, that person is not yet fully adapted to fat-burning.

seriously? then why do we lose weight when we are showing ketosis on the strips? is it water weight? Also, how long does this adaptation take? what does it mean to make use of ketones? Does that mean that ketones are burning fat?

You lose weight, because the pressure from insulin is much lower. Your fat cells can release more energy. So you are less hungry, thus you eat less.

Patrick

That's it? But I eat the same if not more calories on Atkins. Also my fat is coming from the tummy, which is hard to lose for me.

And if it is just eating less does that mean that its the same type of loss as with general calorie restriction (low fat/high carb) which means i loss lean muscle along w/ fat?

when can i start burning fat?

Calorie intake is meaningless. If you are hungry eat. If your body can access its stored energy, you will be naturally less hungry. If you always eat less than what you are hungry for, the resulting weight loss (if any) will only be temporary.

You can also checkout this post: http://forum.lowcarber.org/showpost...9&postcount=218

Patrick

good article! that makes a lot of sense- so its mostly that low carb eating helps us to regulate our bodies more by giving them foods that don't make them go apeshit (technically speaking

does this mean my once a month cheat days are wreaking havoc on my homeostasis? Or is this ok since i am not metabolically or insulin resistant. i hear it can 'kick start' your metabolism. is that BS from little chalupas like me that just want an excuse to eat ice cream?

well now! i guess i'm not fully adapted. but this is good news. it's like i've discovered new territory i can explore. a shame though that i've got so many people trying to feed me carbs. i've been doing the KLC (kinda-low carb) diet thing and I go in and out of ketosis - more time "in" lately. I guess I'll work on some VLC for a while.

In your case, you are just fine Carne. You can continue whatever way of eating you currently do. Some people just cannot handle carbs. But that's not you for sure.

Patrick

This doesn't make sense to me. The ketogenic diet is sometimes used to treat children with epilepsy. The child has to be kept in ketosis in order to control the seizures. Parents of these children often use ketostix to be sure he or she is still in ketosis.This wouldn't work if the strips stopped turning purple once the body had adjusted. (Generally the child is kept on the diet for two years, so presumably he or she would have made this adjustment.)

I believe they only look for a change. Like from the beige to very pale rose. It might not turn purple anymore, but they can still see that ketones are being used.

Patrick

Point taken. So then, what is the experience of those here who pretty much have stayed in ketosis permanantly for a long period of time? Did your strips stop turning purple?

Ok I'm confused. So the body metabolizes fat and the product is ketones. Ketones are spilled into urine.

Does the body start utilising the ketones when it produces enough enzymes? And as such, are these ketones a source of fuel? Does this not then mean that LESS fat is burnt for energy (since the ketones become a valid source in the presence of enzymes)?

(Sorry, I know I sound slow on the uptake...but I've often wondered but never fully understood the biochemistry involved).

Also, what is preferentially metabolized for fuel: body fat (as it is in a familiar recognizable form) or dietary fat or ketones?

And is protein only partially converted to glucose in the complete absence of glucose/glycogen?
Do the brain and nervous system ever adapt to use ketones for fuel?

Thankyou muchly

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketone_bodies

So it's a good thing when your strips does not change to purple anymore. It means that your are not in a catabolic state anymore. You are now losing weight in an anabolic state, which is ideal.

Patrick

Guyton's textbook of medical physiology mentions the traditional Inuit don't develop ketosis. It suggests what I said earlier, that ketonuria is an intermediate step. Once the body adapts it uses ketones for energy at the cellular level rather than letting them seem into the blood where they end up in urine.