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  #16   ^
Old Thu, Dec-06-18, 15:36
Dazed1's Avatar
Dazed1 Dazed1 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 264
 
Plan: Keto
Stats: 232.8/190/165 Male 5' 9"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nawchem
No.

I did many fasts lasting as long as 12 days since my teens. Non-fasting days I ate 1400 cal while running track, playing on the tennis team and working active jobs. I lost no weight from it. For me I develop high reverse T3, my body turns down my metabolism.

My best fat loss occurred while working out with a trainer and doing 4 hrs of a day of intense exercise. (I normally do 3hrs and 1hr of it is yoga). My weight didn't change much but bodyfat went from 28% to 20%. My 2nd most muscular phase was 18hr IF but eating up to 300 carbs a day.

It all depends on what the cause of your increased body fat is and
how your body reacts to nutritional changes and exercise.


Could your low calorie diet and exercise routine actually tone down your metabolism. This is the problem seen with the Biggest Loser.
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  #17   ^
Old Thu, Dec-06-18, 15:46
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 10,600
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazed1
Could your low calorie diet and exercise routine actually tone down your metabolism. This is the problem seen with the Biggest Loser.


Dr Fung says not if using intermittent fasting to lower the total calories. His explanation of metabolism changes with continuous calorie reduction vs. fasting, data from 2016 based on Biggest Loser Study.
https://www.dietdoctor.com/fix-brok...-exact-opposite

Or this good explanation of the difference: https://idmprogram.com/difference-c...ing-fasting-27/

Last edited by JEY100 : Fri, Dec-07-18 at 03:51.
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  #18   ^
Old Thu, Dec-06-18, 18:28
nawchem's Avatar
nawchem nawchem is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,348
 
Plan: No gluten, CAD
Stats: 196.0/161.0/149.0 Female 62
BF:36/29.7/27.3
Progress: 74%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazed1
Could your low-calorie diet and exercise routine actually tone down your metabolism. This is the problem seen with the Biggest Loser.


Research has shown rt3 increases with less than 50 carb intake. You can combat that by changing things up. Bodybuilders eat LC to cut fat then do a carb up day followed with hard workouts to use the advantage to build muscle then.

I don't know about others. I am on the waiting list for Dr. Fung's diabetes book. He has great results. From podcasts, he said his patients had issues with LC, not speaking English, elderly so he turned to fasting. I know far less than others on this site regarding his generalized beliefs.
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  #19   ^
Old Thu, Dec-06-18, 18:50
locarb4avr locarb4avr is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 243
 
Plan: My own plan
Stats: 220/138/132 Male 65in
BF:
Progress: 93%
Location: 92646
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Have been doing one meal per day for years now.

Recently, try doing one meal per couple days(per 1, per 2, per 3...) from time to time.

One thing I do notice are certain inflammation of certain body areas go away or go lighter. That is what I did not expected. YMMV.

Other than that, it lose weight fast if you gain weight from trips/vacations or from Souplantation/buffet that your love one loves to go.
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  #20   ^
Old Fri, Dec-07-18, 06:23
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 10,600
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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As so often happens, an article on whatever topic pops into my LC RSS feed when needed.
New article on a recent IF study posted to DietDoctor this morning:

Is intermittent fasting better than chronic calorie restriction? Only if you actually do it!

https://www.dietdoctor.com/is-inter...actually-do-it?
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  #21   ^
Old Fri, Dec-07-18, 07:43
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,194
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/128/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 106%
Location: Vermont
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From the article on diet doctor:

Quote:
In his keynote talk at Low Carb Houston, Dr. Andreas Eenfeldt recently stated that showering only gets you clean if you actually do it. He used this obvious example to highlight the trouble with studies that proclaim one method is no better than another, but then document that only a fraction of the subjects was compliant with the intervention. Thus the conclusion could be that the intervention was difficult for the subjects to maintain, but the conclusion should not be that the intervention did not work.


And here's Dr Eenfeldt's talk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ylfxx5ve-8
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  #22   ^
Old Sat, Dec-08-18, 00:35
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 8,362
 
Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
BF:disappearing!
Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
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Quote:
The standard nutritional advice given to Eat Less and Move More is so bad, that doing anything, even the exact opposite beats it.
LOL now that's a keeper
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  #23   ^
Old Sat, Dec-08-18, 06:37
Dazed1's Avatar
Dazed1 Dazed1 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 264
 
Plan: Keto
Stats: 232.8/190/165 Male 5' 9"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Florida
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Dr Fung says not if using intermittent fasting to lower the total calories. His explanation of metabolism changes with continuous calorie reduction vs. fasting, data from 2016 based on Biggest Loser Study.
https://www.dietdoctor.com/fix-brok...-exact-opposite

Or this good explanation of the difference: https://idmprogram.com/difference-c...ing-fasting-27/


She said she did 1400 calories on non-fasting days.
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  #24   ^
Old Sat, Dec-08-18, 09:45
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 13,094
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

Yes--lots of CICO-sensitive fasting advocates suggest that the calorie deficit should come during the fasting, and the actual feeding period should be maintenance or even slightly above maintenance, though obviously not enough to reverse the weight loss from fasting.

I take the slightly non-Fungian view that "starvation mode" has more to do with the weight (type and amount) lost than with whether the weight was lost during fasting or calorie restriction. The Minnesota Starvation experiment is often brought up, there's a reason it wasn't called the semi-starvation experiment, the guys were quite gaunt and bony by the end of the experiment. Semi-starvation doesn't just speak to the diet itself, but also to the state of the consumer. Not only would their metabolic rates have likely been just as low if they'd been given no food at all until they'd reached that state, that had better be true, it's an important survival mechanism.

Yes, I know, studies of one or two day fasts show metabolic rate going up, not down. By definition, nobody's lost a significant amount of body fat in that amount of time.

The effect of current diet on metabolic rate at a given level of body fat is another story, the recent NUSI study showing a higher rate of metabolism on a keto versus low fat or Mediterranean diet speaks to that.

I actually think Fung has the right approach, while having some of the wrong explanations.
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  #25   ^
Old Sat, Dec-08-18, 12:12
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 8,362
 
Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
BF:disappearing!
Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
Yes, I know, studies of one or two day fasts show metabolic rate going up, not down. By definition, nobody's lost a significant amount of body fat in that amount of time.
Might be different at < 10% BF, but who would need to fast then voluntarily?
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  #26   ^
Old Sat, Dec-08-18, 13:23
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 13,094
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

I'm not saying they would--I'm saying that comparing lean young men who ate calorie restricted diet that had them emaciated to people fasting for one or two days isn't a fair comparison, and doesn't show that weight loss from fasting--once the weight has actually been lost to some significant extent--will conserve metabolic rate versus losing the same weight on a calorie restricted diet. Only a head to head comparison of the actual approaches could really show that.
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  #27   ^
Old Sun, Dec-09-18, 12:36
dan_rose dan_rose is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 138
 
Plan: None
Stats: 161/140/140 Male 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Loughborough, UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_d
Might be different at < 10% BF, but who would need to fast then voluntarily?


I'm happy with my weight, I do it for the benefits of autophagy.
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  #28   ^
Old Sun, Dec-09-18, 12:47
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 13,094
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

I don't think I'm at less than ten percent bodyfat--but I'm schizoaffective bipolar with social anxiety. Sometimes I'll fast for a day when I need to be more optimistic/less paranoid for a day, like for a job interview or a driving test or something like that.
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  #29   ^
Old Sun, Dec-09-18, 13:23
cshepard cshepard is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 395
 
Plan: Atkins - maintenance
Stats: 156/123/125 Female 64"
BF:
Progress: 106%
Location: BC, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan_rose
I'm happy with my weight, I do it for the benefits of autophagy.


Ditto. And for production of HGH.
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