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  #1   ^
Old Fri, Oct-22-21, 05:08
JeanM's Avatar
JeanM JeanM is offline
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Posts: 757
 
Plan: LC
Stats: 170/129.8/125 Female 5'1.5
BF:
Progress: 89%
Default Osteoporosis

Any info? I am only 59 with no family history. My mom is 78 and has no issues with bone density. My dexa this week showed osteoporosis of the lumbar spine and increased osteopenia in my left hip. I walk, lift weights and take vitamin d3&k. My Dr has not called me yet go discuss the results. Just wondering what others have experienced. Only thing I feel is little shocks in my back the last couple of years and my left hip is tight, my right hip gets tingly and slightly numb. I feel like those issues sound more nerve related? Thank you.
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  #2   ^
Old Sat, Oct-23-21, 11:27
chicachyna chicachyna is offline
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Posts: 234
 
Plan: my own LC
Stats: 179/141/145 Female 67 inches
BF:
Progress: 112%
Location: Tucson
Default

I don't have an answer for you. I can tell you that for the first time, my dexa score improved. The report said, "significant increase in bone mineral density in hip". Not the neck or the spine, but I'll take it! I still have osteopenia. I walk regularly, and take yoga classes regularly. My yoga teacher has us hold the warrior poses "to stimulate bone growth and density". I don't know that she knows what she's talking about, but I do it. I also take D3. And for the last year and a half I've been taking a quality collagen product. I'll be interested to hear what your doc recommends.
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, Oct-26-21, 15:30
JeanM's Avatar
JeanM JeanM is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 757
 
Plan: LC
Stats: 170/129.8/125 Female 5'1.5
BF:
Progress: 89%
Default

I have an appt with Dr on Nov 4 to discuss meds but I have heard the meds have lots of side effects, so I am not committing too quickly. My age match for some of the lumbar spine was that of an 83 year old. I am only 59, not an athlete but not a couch potato by any stretch. I take d3/k2 daily and have been on HRT almost 4 years which is supposed th help preserve bone mass!
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  #4   ^
Old Wed, Oct-27-21, 04:14
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JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,440
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

This advice may now be outdated, but when I asked my nationally known Gyn about having another bone density scan, she said she doesn’t do them. The medications do not help, and in fact had contributed to breaks.

Instead, continue to eat healthy, high protein and Vit D, maintain a healthy weight, and do weight-bearing exercise daily. Some doctors are dismissive of the whole scanning approach, comparing me at 70 to a 29 year old, and making some magic T score adjustments. As a cancer survivor, no HRT though I did add more high protein foods, whey protein and collegen this year , but that was more for hair and nails.

Last edited by JEY100 : Wed, Oct-27-21 at 04:53.
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  #5   ^
Old Thu, Oct-28-21, 17:36
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,865
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

I think Janet is on the right track. I wouldn't take those meds either.
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  #6   ^
Old Sat, Oct-30-21, 08:09
JeanM's Avatar
JeanM JeanM is offline
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Posts: 757
 
Plan: LC
Stats: 170/129.8/125 Female 5'1.5
BF:
Progress: 89%
Default

Thank you ladies. I will be upping my strength training workouts and adding daily bone broth and collagen . I also read that in addition to my d3/k2 I should add cod liver oil and mag glycinate and malate.
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  #7   ^
Old Fri, Nov-05-21, 20:41
Zuleikaa Zuleikaa is offline
Finding the Pieces
Posts: 17,049
 
Plan: Mishmash
Stats: 365/308.0/185 Female 66
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Maryland, US
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JM2cents

How much D3 and k2 are you taking?

D3, K2, and magnesium work together to build bone. Collagen builds muscle and skin. Folate is the active form of B6; it promotes healing and helps build red blood and bone cells.

It may take up 10k or more IU of D3 to rebuild bone, along with 100 mcg of k2 and 400-600 mg of magnesium/day. 600-800 mg of calcium and 800 mcg of folate is also very helpful.

Vitamin A works in synergy with D3 to build skin and bone and should be taken in balance with D3 at half the amount. That's why cod liver oil is recommended because pure cod liver oil contains naturally balanced amounts of vitamin A and D3. Liver is also a good source of natural vitamin A.

But it is also essential that the correct form of these supplements be taken otherwise it's not only a waste of time and money but can be detrimental.

D3 - NOT D2 or prescription vitamin D which is D2
magnesium - chelated form, in divided doses
calcium - calcium citrate NOT calcium carbonate
folate - Folate 5-Methyltetrahydrofolic Acid NOT folic acid
vitamin A - only from fish liver oil or from eating liver. Do not take beta carotene, it is not true vitamin A. And be very careful of which cod liver oil you purchase as some brands replace natural vitamin A with man-made vitamin A which can build in your system and become toxic.

It may take 4-6 months to see results.

Last edited by Zuleikaa : Sat, Nov-06-21 at 09:35.
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  #8   ^
Old Sat, Nov-06-21, 03:27
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,440
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

More protein!

Quote:
Dietary protein and bone health: A systematic review and meta-analysis from the National Osteoporosis Foundation
2017

https://www.healthevidence.org/view...-national-33085

PubMed listing, has other related studies. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28404575/
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  #9   ^
Old Sat, Nov-06-21, 06:25
JeanM's Avatar
JeanM JeanM is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 757
 
Plan: LC
Stats: 170/129.8/125 Female 5'1.5
BF:
Progress: 89%
Default

Thank you.
To complicate things a xray.done on Thursday showed showed moderate disc slippage and spondylolysis on L5-S1. I have been feeling pinching sensations in my spine, upper thighs and hips for a year+. Dr has not called me about that yet.
Dr also mentioned something about parathyroidism. I am only 59
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  #10   ^
Old Sat, Nov-06-21, 09:46
Zuleikaa Zuleikaa is offline
Finding the Pieces
Posts: 17,049
 
Plan: Mishmash
Stats: 365/308.0/185 Female 66
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Maryland, US
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanM
Thank you.
To complicate things a xray.done on Thursday showed showed moderate disc slippage and spondylolysis on L5-S1. I have been feeling pinching sensations in my spine, upper thighs and hips for a year+. Dr has not called me about that yet.
Dr. also mentioned something about parathyroidism. I am only 59


Have you had your vitamin D3 level tested? IMO any doctor who does not consent to testing your vitamin D3 level yearly should not be your doctor. He/She should definitely have ordered the test for you now since your symptoms are clinical expressions of vitamin D3 deficiency.

In fact, all your symptoms can be attributed to long-term vitamin deficiencies especially vitamin D3 which affects bone, muscles, AND organs including kidneys, heart, thyroid and parathyroid.

Chronic vitamin D3 deficiency is implicated in all your conditions; look it up.

Last edited by Zuleikaa : Sat, Nov-06-21 at 09:58.
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  #11   ^
Old Sat, Nov-06-21, 12:34
JeanM's Avatar
JeanM JeanM is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 757
 
Plan: LC
Stats: 170/129.8/125 Female 5'1.5
BF:
Progress: 89%
Default

Years ago my d3 level was 18, last test in 2019 was 60. Are calcium blood levels helpful?
I take 5000 iu d3 and 100mcg k2. Just started mag glycinatea few days ago and got my NOW brand mag malate in the mail today. Do you have brand suggestions on the folate and fish liver oil?
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  #12   ^
Old Sat, Nov-06-21, 16:09
Zuleikaa Zuleikaa is offline
Finding the Pieces
Posts: 17,049
 
Plan: Mishmash
Stats: 365/308.0/185 Female 66
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Maryland, US
Default

I purchase most, not all, of my supplements from Swansonvitamins.com and Vitacost.com.

Vitamin D levels should be at least 80. Levels of 85-100 protect against cancers. Dr. Holick, a premier vitamin D3 expert keeps his D3 levels around 120.

My levels are usually around that range or higher and, since my doctor has performed multiple ultrasounds of my internal organs including heart, the higher levels have not had a detrimental effect on my health.

When you are deficient in vitamin D3 it is not enough to take 5,000 IU/day. At that level your body will not build bone and, in fact, will actually rob your bones of calcium to maintain other internal systems which need calcium and D3 to perform...one such organ is the parathyroid...the heart is also affected.

See, I told you your problems were all indicated in vitamin D3 deficiency.

At one time I had osteopenia throughout my body; walking was painful; I had to hold on to something to lift my feet to a curb; I could hardly turn over in bed. My body just HURT everywhere. The pain was so bad I obtained injectable D3 and injected 1.2 Million IUs every week for 6 weeks expecting that I was committing suicide but accepting that fate.

Imagine my surprise when in bed one night I reached for the TV remote rolled over to reach it and rolled back into position with it. When I realized what I had done and how easily I had accomplished that task I must have rolled all over my bed again and again just laughing and crying in my amazement and joy. No pain and no effort.

If I were you I would take 15,000 IU/day of D3 along with the other supplements I named and ask for another X-ray and vitamin D3 test after 3 months.

But that's just me...ymmv.

Many people here on the forum take 10k IU D3/day.

I think of the need for D3 this way.

Scientists have found vitamin D3 receptors in every part of the human body. In fact they have found that the body doles out D3 in the body according to a body determined hierarchy of need. And according to the body, you can live without strong bones, your heart and kidneys take precedence.

Last edited by Zuleikaa : Sun, Nov-07-21 at 08:12.
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  #13   ^
Old Sat, Nov-06-21, 17:49
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 19,232
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

I can only share what I did for my son when orthopedists thought the bone of my teen son was lacking calcium and he based this on an x-ray for another issue.


I had to dig deep because the advice was to take Ca supplements and drink milk. Not my first choice of calcium. Of course none of this was passed on to the referring doctor, my son's pediatrician. Left to address on my own.

Sooooo..... Pushed eating quality foods. Whole Foods. Take it a lunch to school, no school lunches.

Added vit K2, 100 mcg a day.

Do some farm chores, stop sitting in chair so much. He splits wood without a shirt, getting quite dark. Splitting wood sends impact vibrations thru the whole body.

Vit D3. 5000 units in summer, 10,000 in winter. With Covid , summer kept at higher 10,000 units.( Imo a blood test is warranted. )

Magnesium threonate.... Good for passing into brain.

Calcium from food, not a pill. Real meats, lots of beef. Lots. Somes nuts, some cheeses. Not a fan of milk but do buy organic grass fed milk occasionally for him. At $5 per half gallon.

He had no follow up, as pediatrician didn't know what I was talking about....

Currently, years later, my son walks miles on a college campus and participates in fencing. His knees no longer cause pain. His cognitive abilities are also better. Meaning, a problem in one area may actually be throughout the entire body.

And he has kept to primarily meats and veg; eating at the University rated the "best food " of all colleges and universities in US. It was the one of the reasons for him to attend there, and
not W PI that served parents loads of 🍝 pasta.

I realize this is dealing with a teen boy, but I'm seeing overlapping 'treatment'.

My mother has been increasing her bone scan scores, she eat very well and takes vit K2. Fozamax. Trying to get her to stop this......read one source that said bone was of poor quality, not strong bone but weak.

Anyway, a bit long, sorry.

Last edited by Ms Arielle : Sat, Nov-06-21 at 18:03.
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  #14   ^
Old Sat, Nov-06-21, 18:18
JeanM's Avatar
JeanM JeanM is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 757
 
Plan: LC
Stats: 170/129.8/125 Female 5'1.5
BF:
Progress: 89%
Default

Thank you very much ladies!
Does the amount of k2 change with the amount of d3 taken? Also, is Carson's cod liver oil good? Gels or liquid?
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  #15   ^
Old Sat, Nov-06-21, 19:28
Zuleikaa Zuleikaa is offline
Finding the Pieces
Posts: 17,049
 
Plan: Mishmash
Stats: 365/308.0/185 Female 66
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Maryland, US
Default

From Grassroots Health:
Quote:

How much vitamin K do you need? Some can get enough vitamin K from the diet, in foods such as leafy green veggies, fermented foods (such as hard cheeses, kimchi, natto, etc.), and from supplements; a therapeutic dose is suggested to be between 180-200 mcg MK7 (a form of vitamin K2) per day from diet and supplements

Even smaller amounts of MK7 were found to be helpful

What should the ratio be? It will vary individually according to the amount of vitamin D needed to reach the target level in the blood

How much helps heart health? Diet studies have shown that people eating even small amounts of vitamin K (from foods such as hard cheese), even at a dose of 32 mcg per day, was enough to reduce arterial calcification and risk of death by CVD by 50%

for every 10 mcg MK7, there was a reduction in coronary heart disease risk of 9%
eating foods high in MK7 (Vitamin K2) see heart healthy benefits!

Make sure to get enough magnesium as well! Need to make sure the other key nutrients for calcium metabolism are also there to help keep the balance; magnesium helps prevent calcification and is essential to proper vitamin D absorption and metabolism

all nutrients work together in the body
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