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  #1   ^
Old Thu, Jun-14-18, 06:21
Susky2's Avatar
Susky2 Susky2 is offline
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Posts: 88
 
Plan: Keto-ish
Stats: 339/286/245 Male 76 inches
BF:
Progress: 56%
Location: Central PA
Default Can we define "cheating?"

I've been struggling lately with certain nomenclature in the LC arena. I was recently on vacation, and while I'm a true LC advocate, vacation is one of the times where I make allowances for a higher carb intake. When I attempted to discuss this on another forum (a FB group), my post was rejected because it apparently promoted "cheating" and mentioned "off-plan foods."

First of all, I reject the notion that my mentioning something like "beer" will somehow drive a budding LCer into a fit of misbehavior. If seeing a naughty word on a forum triggers you that quickly, your way of eating isn't your biggest problem.

I tend to see "cheating" as bingeing on foods and beverages that don't appear on acceptable foods lists and such. And I see certain foods are being fringe items that may or may not be "off plan," depending on the consumer's position in the LC universe and the quantity of the item that is consumed.

Which brings me back to my vacation story. I stayed pretty strict for most of the week, but I did allow myself a couple of beers through the week, and I did have one burrito with (GASP!) a regular tortilla. I should also mention that the fillings I chose were all happily LC - beef tongue, cabbage, sour cream, and a splash of pico de gallo. Was it LC? Of course not. Was it cheating? I don't think so. Is it inappropriate to discuss this with other LCers?

I was accused of saying, "I'm on vacation so I didn't care about cheating." My feeling is that in the context of following a LC lifestyle, it's perfectly acceptable to temporarily increase your carb levels to have a more relaxed (and less vigilant) experience from time to time, and that's miles away from what I consider cheating.

What do you think?
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  #2   ^
Old Thu, Jun-14-18, 06:42
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 9,228
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

IMO you are the master of your domain and YOU decide what works for you.....

Having said that, to try to keep on a successful path, DANDR lists alcohol as way down the list for OWL.

Alcoholll has a disruptive effect because it runs thru the digestive system different and quicker, that I understand.

IMO, if you want to cheat, That is your choice. If you want to use some of your carb allowances as candy or alcohols, that is your choice.

Many mention eating OP but overeating. Well the efect to weight loss can be the same, so what does it matter which words are used.

This is your diet plan. Otthers should make their own disicions about what to eat when. My mother has 1-2 drinks a night and still lost a lot of weight because she changed the other foods and the quality and the amounts.

I personally like that we are responsible for what works for us, not anyone else. Many here do not worry about staying on plan when traveling or vacationing. The just jump back on the wagon again, and start removing the extra pounds.

CHeating is what an individual decides, imo.

Sorry you were jumped at the other forum. COme hang out with us if you need.
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  #3   ^
Old Thu, Jun-14-18, 06:47
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 10,596
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

When you are in someone else's playground, you have to play by their rules. This is particularly true with FB groups...there are thousands of LC and Keto support groups, some are "lazy" Keto where anything goes, some very strict because the members are fighting serious health conditions, Obesity and long standing Diabetes. I am a moderator on a 20g total carb group, no nuts no alcohol, so yes, I would block posts of photos of Keto bread with almond flour or the great beer you had on vacation. There are a zillion other places you can share a photo of your burrito plate, that group is not one of them.
This forum does not support the use of extended fasting for good reasons, their rules and I have no problem with that. There are FB pages and another forum where fasting is popular...if I want to ask a question about fasting can go there.
I guess itís only cheating based on the rules of whatever playground you are in. As Ms Arielle wrote, itís your plan you can do whatever you want, eat whatever you want, but if you are on a FB page that follows certain rules, you donít need to mention Off Plan foods there. If that FB page provides helpful information for your LC journey then stay in it, if not, hit delete and move on to another.

Last edited by JEY100 : Thu, Jun-14-18 at 07:08.
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  #4   ^
Old Thu, Jun-14-18, 07:14
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 2,454
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

We'll not block you here, and I'm sure you can find other threads addressing cheating using the advanced search function. Having free will, we can all do what we want with food at any time. Traveling down the path to serious health problems with a vivid preview of what was in store for me based on what happened to my father when he became older, I understand how consistency is key in my continued good health. That being said, there have been times when I've made the choice to eat something off plan. Free will enables one to do that. In each case, I experienced no benefits, the food wasn't the quality that I thought I remembered, and I went right back to my LCHF ways. For people just getting started on LCHF, going off plan is one of the ways to go back to a damaging eating approach. I wouldn't recommend it unless you have a long history of eating clean. Achieving good health is serious stuff, and when you realize as you're older that you could have corrected much when you were younger, it becomes very clear when you're forced to live with health issues for the rest of your life. Hindsight is always 20/20.
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  #5   ^
Old Thu, Jun-14-18, 07:27
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Posts: 13,093
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

Quote:
I tend to see "cheating" as bingeing on foods and beverages that don't appear on acceptable foods lists and such.


I see cheating as more what leads up to the binge. Eating a little less ketogenically of on-plan foods, having foods in the house that I'm likely to binge on.

Usually. For Christmas I'll usually just eat whatever. I find if I just let myself overeat an extremely ketogenic diet, no more protein or carbs than usual, but way more fat, the cravings subside a lot sooner, otherwise I'd be fightng them and bingeing on even normally safe low carb foods for a week.
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  #6   ^
Old Thu, Jun-14-18, 07:39
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 9,228
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
When you are in someone else's playground, you have to play by their rules. This is particularly true with FB groups...there are thousands of LC and Keto support groups, some are "lazy" Keto where anything goes, some very strict because the members are fighting serious health conditions, Obesity and long standing Diabetes. I am a moderator on a 20g total carb group, no nuts no alcohol, so yes, I would block posts of photos of Keto bread with almond flour or the great beer you had on vacation. There are a zillion other places you can share a photo of your burrito plate, that group is not one of them.
This forum does not support the use of extended fasting for good reasons, their rules and I have no problem with that. There are FB pages and another forum where fasting is popular...if I want to ask a question about fasting can go there.
I guess itís only cheating based on the rules of whatever playground you are in. As Ms Arielle wrote, itís your plan you can do whatever you want, eat whatever you want, but if you are on a FB page that follows certain rules, you donít need to mention Off Plan foods there. If that FB page provides helpful information for your LC journey then stay in it, if not, hit delete and move on to another.


Janet thanks for sharing and filling in my lacking knowledge about FB groups.

Im not on FB. Glad I found this forum first. Tried another for a week, but this one is the only one for me. I had to learn how to deal with the real world .
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  #7   ^
Old Thu, Jun-14-18, 08:03
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 10,596
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
Janet thanks for sharing and filling in my lacking knowledge about FB groups.

Im not on FB. Glad I found this forum first. Tried another for a week, but this one is the only one for me. I had to learn how to deal with the real world .


FB is definitely not the real world Even I got booted from a group, if I remember by sharing some health information but it was on a website that sold products. "Breaking these rules makes you subject to immediate removal without warning or follow-up. " So only having one post rejected is nothin', and they gave Susky a warning and explanation

Last edited by JEY100 : Thu, Jun-14-18 at 08:36.
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  #8   ^
Old Thu, Jun-14-18, 08:16
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 9,228
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
FB is definitely not the real world Even I got booted from a group, if I remember by sharing some health information but it was on a website that sold products. "Breaking these rules makes you subject to immediate removal without warning or follow-up. " So only having one post rejected is nothin', and they gave a warning and explanation


That's so limiting--- I would never know all I know if it wasnt for you, teaser and a few others that hunt down and post pertinent info.

~OP-- hope you find peace and a group you are comfortable with.
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  #9   ^
Old Thu, Jun-14-18, 09:00
s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
 
Plan: Atkins & IF
Stats: 000/014.5/015 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 97%
Default

Lots of great answers in this thread! To me, any deviation from your current WOL / WOE can be considered. Whenever you stray, the chance exists of moving further away from your plan and continue unabated down that slippery slope toward the old you before LC. My WOL / WOE is evolving. So it's somewhat of a moving target. I just read somewhere about small changes and big changes. I keep my changes small.

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  #10   ^
Old Thu, Jun-14-18, 09:02
Susky2's Avatar
Susky2 Susky2 is offline
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Posts: 88
 
Plan: Keto-ish
Stats: 339/286/245 Male 76 inches
BF:
Progress: 56%
Location: Central PA
Default

Thanks for the help. For what it's worth, I wasn't jumped on, and I wasn't banned or anything like that. The moderator just didn't approve my post. I just asked them if there was a way to modify it to make it fit the guidelines, and no...it was gone forever.

I did like you said, Janet...I just left and moved on with my life. There was way too much confusing left-field kind of nonsense on there anyway. Thanks for being the voice of reason.

Going back to my original point, my post there was intended to describe that once people are acclimated to this way of eating, there is an ability to temporarily adjust priorities and make it work in the long run. I'm not talking about having birthday cake or doing things that will cause people to go off the deep end...just that understanding the whole process and taking a sensible approach doesn't mean that you have to live in 100% denial all the time. That's why I framed it as an "allowance" rather than a "cheat" or a "setback." Yeah, it's semantics, but it's also not intended to try and whitewash going off-plan.

I think that developing the right mindset is 3/4 of making this way of life a success. Early adopters probably don't understand it, and I can see where it might be confusing to discuss things like this, but presented in the right way, it can also be enlightening.

And by the way, I also noted that 4 days after I returned from my trip, I had a 4 pound loss from the previous week. I attribute that to a strong understanding how this way of eating works, making the right choices (even if they are off-plan or at least in a gray area), and positive self motivation.
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  #11   ^
Old Thu, Jun-14-18, 09:02
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
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Posts: 2,219
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/175/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 25%
Location: NE WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
some very strict because the members are fighting serious health conditions, Obesity and long standing Diabetes.


I belong to a very strict FB group that is focused on recovering from t2 diabetes & managing t1. Anyone who wants to post about off-plan foods can do it elsewhere. It's surprising how many people want to change the focus of an established group.
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  #12   ^
Old Thu, Jun-14-18, 10:57
BillyHW's Avatar
BillyHW BillyHW is offline
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Posts: 378
 
Plan: Keto + IF
Stats: 260/300/165 Male 5' 6"
BF:
Progress: -42%
Location: Alberta, Canada
Default

I'm going to be visiting relatives this summer. I've given this some thought and I've decided that I will stick to my low-carb diet when it's under my control. By that I mean that if my sister is cooking, I will "cheat" and eat whatever is served. However, if we are out at a restaurant, I will do my best to order something low-carb friendly.
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  #13   ^
Old Thu, Jun-14-18, 11:02
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
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Posts: 2,219
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/175/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 25%
Location: NE WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyHW
By that I mean that if my sister is cooking, I will "cheat" and eat whatever is served.


I'm really lucky - my sister sort of understands my WOE & always has food I can eat. I do have to ignore the land mines of snacks & desserts, but I rarely eat even lc versions of them at home so it's not difficult.

On top of that she makes the BEST salmon! I could eat her salmon every day for a week.
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  #14   ^
Old Thu, Jun-14-18, 11:48
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 2,454
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyHW
I'm going to be visiting relatives this summer. I've given this some thought and I've decided that I will stick to my low-carb diet when it's under my control. By that I mean that if my sister is cooking, I will "cheat" and eat whatever is served. However, if we are out at a restaurant, I will do my best to order something low-carb friendly.

This is a very reasonable approach.
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  #15   ^
Old Thu, Jun-14-18, 12:24
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
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Posts: 4,881
 
Plan: ~25NC/IF
Stats: 342.2/196/000 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 43%
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