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  #1   ^
Old Sun, Jul-28-19, 07:54
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Plan: mostly milkfat
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Default Gut bacteria vs obesity

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releas...90725150401.htm
Quote:
These gut bacteria prevent mice from becoming obese -- what could that mean for us?


Researchers at University of Utah Health have identified a specific class of bacteria from the gut that prevents mice from becoming obese, suggesting these same microbes may similarly control weight in people. The beneficial bacteria, called Clostridia, are part of the microbiome -- collectively trillions of bacteria and other microorganisms that inhabit the intestine.

Published online in the journal Science on July 25, the study shows that healthy mice have plenty of Clostridia -- a class of 20 to 30 bacteria -- but those with an impaired immune system lose these microbes from their gut as they age. Even when fed a healthy diet, the mice inevitably become obese. Giving this class of microbes back to these animals allowed them to stay slim.

June Round, Ph.D., an associate professor of pathology at U of U Health, is the study's co-senior author along with U of U Health research assistant professor W. Zac Stephens, Ph.D. Charisse Petersen, Ph.D., a graduate student at the time, led the research.

"Now that we've found the minimal bacteria responsible for this slimming effect, we have the potential to really understand what the organisms are doing and whether they have therapeutic value," Round says.

Results from this study are already pointing in that direction. Petersen and colleagues found that Clostridia prevents weight gain by blocking the intestine's ability to absorb fat. Mice experimentally treated so that Clostridia were the only bacteria living in their gut were leaner with less fat than mice that had no microbiome at all. They also had lower levels of a gene, CD36, that regulates the body's uptake of fatty acids.

These insights could lead to a therapeutic approach, Round says, with advantages over the fecal transplants and probiotics that are now being widely investigated as ways to restore a healthy microbiota. Therapeutics such as these, that are based on transferring living microbiome to the gut, won't work for everyone due to differences in diet and other factors that influence which bacteria can survive and thrive.

The current study found that one or more molecules produced by Clostridia prevented the gut from absorbing fat. The next step is to isolate these molecules and further characterize how they work to determine whether they could inspire focused treatments for obesity, type 2 diabetes, and other related metabolic disorders.

"These bacteria have evolved to live with us and benefit us," Petersen says. "We have a lot to learn from them."

A Good Defense Is the Best Offense

Finding that mice with a compromised immune system couldn't help but become obese was a discovery that almost didn't happen. Serendipity brought Petersen into the lab at the right time to see that mice genetically engineered to lack myd88, a gene central to the immune response, were "as fat as pancakes." She had let the rodents age longer than usual, revealing an unappreciated link between immunity and obesity.

Still, the observation didn't answer the question why the animals became overweight.

Based on previous research she had carried out in the Round lab, she suspected the microbiome was involved. She had helped demonstrate that one role of the immune system is to maintain balance among the diverse array of bacteria in the gut. Impairing the body's defenses can cause certain bacterial species to dominate over others. Sometimes, the shift negatively impacts health.

Following a similar logic, Petersen and colleagues determined that the obesity observed in immune-compromised mice stemmed from the failure of the body's defense system to appropriately recognize bacteria. These mice produced fewer of the antibodies that ordinarily latch onto the microbiome like target-seeking missiles. This change made the gut less hospitable for Clostridia, leading to more fat absorption and excessive weight gain. Over time, the mice also developed signs of type 2 diabetes.

Round points out that research by others have shown that people who are obese similarly lack Clostridia, mirroring the situation in these mice. There are also some indications that people who are obese or have type 2 diabetes may have a suboptimal immune response. The hope is that understanding these connections will provide new insights into preventing and treating these pervasive health conditions.

"We've stumbled onto a relatively unexplored aspect of type 2 diabetes and obesity," Round says. "This work will open new investigations on how the immune response regulates the microbiome and metabolic disease."




Yuh... I eat fat hoping to absorb it and use it for energy. And stuff. That's why I put this in the War Zone, I sort of doubt that just absorbing fat is a trigger for obesity here. There may be more to the signals that result in increased absorption of fat than just that increase, that contribute to obesity.
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  #2   ^
Old Sun, Jul-28-19, 08:01
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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I would like them to transplant gut bugs from one fat person to another, or one thin person to another. Has anyone ever done that?
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  #3   ^
Old Sun, Jul-28-19, 08:48
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releas...90725150401.htm
Yuh... I eat fat hoping to absorb it and use it for energy. And stuff. That's why I put this in the War Zone, I sort of doubt that just absorbing fat is a trigger for obesity here. There may be more to the signals that result in increased absorption of fat than just that increase, that contribute to obesity.

This is why I have a problem with findings using mice as subjects. This is an area where there is a critical disconnect with the way the human metabolism manages fats. We are now starting to wake up with the realization and proof that endogenous fat does not directly make us fat, unless one is consuming so much or is consuming so much of the wrong fat, it's got to be stuffed away as stores. It's easy to believe the myth that consuming fat makes us fat, it's so logical; yet, the truth is far more complex. Food manufacturers quake at the claim that it's the over-consumption of processed carbs that makes us fat. Lot's of assumptions in place that must be refuted.
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  #4   ^
Old Sun, Jul-28-19, 10:27
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
I would like them to transplant gut bugs from one fat person to another, or one thin person to another. Has anyone ever done that?



THe only transplant I have heard of is when a patient is failing to thrive and at deaths door, then microbes are transferrred from specified donors to the GI ( by passing oral route) for life saving heroic type sugery.

This microbe or microbes are NOT the same as the ones talked about above and several other areas I have been reading. THe latter has been SLOW to be recognized.

IMHO, until microbe source can be had, I am hoping to minimize the bad ones by not feeding them. ANd feed the better ones via asparagus, onion, and the like. AND pray the medical field in the US get their act together asap. I blame them 100% for the fix we are in. I am high risk for a number of cancers--- cancer isnt just having the gene but the " environment" to trigger the activation..... Im in the fight of my life to prevent dying of cancer.
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, Jul-30-19, 08:54
NewRuth's Avatar
NewRuth NewRuth is offline
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Plan: LC gut healing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
THe only transplant I have heard of is when a patient is failing to thrive and at deaths door, then microbes are transferrred from specified donors to the GI ( by passing oral route) for life saving heroic type sugery.


A lot of that has to do with US law. There's that pesky unproven treatments thing. My cynical side also thinks that this stuff is the drug companies' nightmare.

Quote:
IMHO, until microbe source can be had, I am hoping to minimize the bad ones by not feeding them. ANd feed the better ones via asparagus, onion, and the like. AND pray the medical field in the US get their act together asap.


From the reading I've done, you need both the good microbes and the food to perpetuate them. A microbe transplant will only help so long without continued maintenance.

The more that I read, the more I think you're on the right track anyway.

It's complex because some of us have had our microbiomes destroyed by drugs, so we need a replacement source. Others have caused our colonies to skew because of what we feed them. Right now, we don't really know the difference between the two sets.

Dr. Stasha Gominak has found that our gut microbes need each other and Vitamin D3. Here's an interview on High Intensity Health. It seems like most discussion of microbes doesn't even acknowledge that.

You also have the questionable science that seems rampant. Tom Naughton recently had an excellent experience from adding L. reuteri to his diet. First blog post here. In following that up, I ran across a study that claimed that L. reuteri caused weight gain in humans. I don't have time to look it up, but they took people with antibiotic resistant L. reuteri, gave them anitbiotics, and the people gained weight and still had the L. reuteri. Therefore, it was the L. reuteri that caused weight gain. Ummm.... what about the microbes killed by the antibiotics? Couldn't that be the cause of the weight gain?

Some of these probiotic strains are harvested from people living a non-industrial life. One L. reuteri strain is from a Peruvian mother living high in the Andes The E. coli in Mutaflor is another. Because of that, it makes sense to me to avoid antibiotics in as many forms as possible and to load up on the live stuff as much as I can. Kombucha made in the traditional way, yogurt and other dairy ferments, fermented vegetables, and vinegar with the mother are the ways people have gotten probiotics before they came in a fecal transplant or pill. For now, the old ways seem to be the best way.

ETA: I'm not meaning to dis probiotics. Right now, I am experimenting with the L. reuteri, but using the capsules from Swanson. I'm not sure that probiotics are a lasting solution. I don't think that our best health comes from being reliant on a pill. After all, that Peruvian woman above wasn't taking pills.

Last edited by NewRuth : Tue, Jul-30-19 at 09:02.
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  #6   ^
Old Tue, Jul-30-19, 11:35
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is online now
Posts: 11,377
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewRuth
A lot of that has to do with US law. There's that pesky unproven treatments thing. My cynical side also thinks that this stuff is the drug companies' nightmare.



From the reading I've done, you need both the good microbes and the food to perpetuate them. A microbe transplant will only help so long without continued maintenance.

The more that I read, the more I think you're on the right track anyway.

It's complex because some of us have had our microbiomes destroyed by drugs, so we need a replacement source. Others have caused our colonies to skew because of what we feed them. Right now, we don't really know the difference between the two sets.

Dr. Stasha Gominak has found that our gut microbes need each other and Vitamin D3. Here's an interview on High Intensity Health. It seems like most discussion of microbes doesn't even acknowledge that.

You also have the questionable science that seems rampant. Tom Naughton recently had an excellent experience from adding L. reuteri to his diet. First blog post here. In following that up, I ran across a study that claimed that L. reuteri caused weight gain in humans. I don't have time to look it up, but they took people with antibiotic resistant L. reuteri, gave them anitbiotics, and the people gained weight and still had the L. reuteri. Therefore, it was the L. reuteri that caused weight gain. Ummm.... what about the microbes killed by the antibiotics? Couldn't that be the cause of the weight gain?

Some of these probiotic strains are harvested from people living a non-industrial life. One L. reuteri strain is from a Peruvian mother living high in the Andes The E. coli in Mutaflor is another. Because of that, it makes sense to me to avoid antibiotics in as many forms as possible and to load up on the live stuff as much as I can. Kombucha made in the traditional way, yogurt and other dairy ferments, fermented vegetables, and vinegar with the mother are the ways people have gotten probiotics before they came in a fecal transplant or pill. For now, the old ways seem to be the best way.

ETA: I'm not meaning to dis probiotics. Right now, I am experimenting with the L. reuteri, but using the capsules from Swanson. I'm not sure that probiotics are a lasting solution. I don't think that our best health comes from being reliant on a pill. After all, that Peruvian woman above wasn't taking pills.


Thank you for posting this NewRuth. This is some very interesting information!
And this one really set off alarm bells one after another with myself and my family. Dr. Stasha Gominak has found that our gut microbes need each other and Vitamin D3. Here's an interview on High Intensity Health.
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  #7   ^
Old Tue, Jul-30-19, 11:41
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
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Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
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I've heard of people doing fecal transplants for intestinal bacteria, but my rear is "exit only".

Sorry I couldn't resist.

I've also read some things going very wrong with that.

Testing on humans is unethical for good reasons.

I've swallowed 'flora' after reading articles about it, and it didn't seem to make any difference in me. But of course that was OTC stuff.

Bob
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