What this suggests to me is that both groups had trouble sticking with it, not just the low carbers, and there was a higher drop out rate among those on the low fat plan. IIRC, the test subjects were not given a choice as to which plan they got to follow; they were assigned randomly. I'll have to see if I can find the link to the discussion we had on this study. I seem to remember that at the end of it, the Atkins subjects had still maintained a 50% greater weight loss (a number the researchers called "insignificant") and their cardiac profiles were still better than those following the low fat plan.

I think you've got a point here. I believe we should distinguish between inducton dieting - intended as a reducing diet from what I gather - and the Atkins "maintenance stage" diet, which appears to have significant overlap with the low-glycemic diet. Here is what I understand so far:

Induction dieting
- for weight loss
- works through ketosis
- short term: lose more weight than low-fat diet
- long term effectiveness & side effects of ketosis = ?
- not for kids

Whether this is a good reducing diet is a separate question from what the ideal "maintenance diet" should be. I've now read all of the Consumer Reports on Health articles about Atkins/LC dieting, and the key point seems to be not low carbs, but controlled amounts of the right carbs. If I could modify your statement slightly, I would say

I fail to see how eliminating a lot of processed starch and sugar from one's diet, while eating heaps of veg and moderate meat as it comes, and no transfats is going to harm.

Just want to make sure you know who Consumer Reports is. They are published by Consumers Union, a 50+ year old non-profit dedicated to improving peoples' lives by honest and objective reviews about all types of products and services. They are beholden to no special interests, and are not so easily dismissed.

Consumer Reports

This is one of many studies that shows that Atkins/LC is quite effective at weight loss, at least in the short term.

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthre...&highlight=year

Above is the discussion that I referred to in my earlier post. I still find it interesting that the researchers dismissed a better than 60% difference in weight loss at the end of the year study (on top of better cardiac profiles) as "not significant". I'd bet that had the low fat group come out on top they would have been shouting it from the rooftops as "more effective" than low carb.
Regarding Consumer Reports; while they have provided a valuable service to the public for many years in reporting on products and services, I'm not at all convinced that they are in any way qualified to interpret the results of a scientific medical study. Report on it, perhaps, even give their opinion on it, but qualified to interpret the results? Nope.

The opinion expressed on behalf of any organisation, no matter how old or "objective" can be easily dismissed if they tell you things which are demonstrably not true.

I would urge you to not take their word for it (or mine) and read the studies for yourself, and make up your own mind.

Cheers,

Malcolm

Westerner, anyone who loses weight is going to gain it back if they revert to their old eating habits. That's the problem with most diets out there today. I know people who've followed Atkins, lost weight, then stopped the plan. Either they didn't think about it as a way of life, or at some point in time completely forgot what they learned on Atkins.

One thing I find very wonderful about following Atkins is that unlike low-fat diets like WW and Richard Simmons, I eat enough that my appetite is completely satiated. Granted, there are non-LC foods that I love, but with a satisfied appetite, whether or not I eat those foods really isn't a huge issue. With low-fat diets, where I was starving all the time, it did become a huge issue. I got so tired of being hungry I couldn't stick with any of them.

You mentioned low-glycemic diets for blood sugar control, and as you can see in Atkins for Life that's very much the maintenance phase of the Atkins plan. Unfortunately, though, losing weight on maintenance isn't easy to do--I know, I followed a low-glycemic way of eating for around two years before starting Atkins because it kept my blood sugar in check. I never lost a pound in the process. The problem was, even though I was eating low-glycemic foods, I was still consuming way too many carbohydrates.

I look forward to reaching my goal and going on maintenance. I've read Atkins for Life, and honestly it's going to be an easy path to follow. I can deal without pasta (haven't had one bite of pasta in 7 months now, which in retrospect is a little hard to believe!), can live mostly without potatoes (a little potato salad a couple of times a year isn't against Atkins for Life), and rice is just completely over-rated!

I know some refer to Atkins as restrictive. How on earth can eating the foods with the most flavor be restrictive? Carbohydrate-laden foods don't have flavor (with the exception of home-made white bread and fresh corn) until something is put on them! Look at potatoes--what do you add for flavor? Ever eat potatoes plain with nothing on them? Yuck! And rice? Ever eat it just out of the pan with nothing? Even worse than potatoes! And pasta's another one--it has no flavor without sauce.

I really think that when people call Atkins restrictive they simply have no imagination, and really don't appreciate the finer foods in life.

It is very interesting, considering a recent short term study on low carb raved about the better weight loss on low carb vs. low fat. (don't know the study) but didn't bother the simple research to note the regular water loss occuring on keto diets.

Still, 60% is impressive, makes you wonder about metabolic advantage or simply issues of adequete protein. the water loss probably only amounts to 5-15 pounds.

I've been doing Atkins for approximately 14 months. It's been very successful for me. Never once have I "fallen off the wagon" nor have I wanted to. Never once have I gone up in sizes. I have sustained a continuously lower or stable bodyfat level for the entire duration. I have very little doubt that maintaining the atkins lifestyle indefinitely will be easy for me. I eat everything I want to eat and never feel deprived. Unless something physically happens to my body which would make this stop working (an illness of some kind), I don't worry too much about rebound weight gain.

Sorry but I don't understand how anyone can call an atkins-like diet overly restricted and limited. I eat better than I did before. My meals pre-lc consisted of a bunch of "snacks" and a huge meal at dinner. For snacks i would have disgustingly bad carb foods... cereals, fruit juices & snack cakes/crackers, ramen soups, and WAY too much fruit. I was absolutely addicted to fruit and would eat it all day every day in huge quantities. LOL, I thought it was healthy! The kicker is it never satisfied my appetite, in fact the more I ate the more I wanted to eat. Dinner was the only time I would ever feel full and that's because dinner was the only time when I would eat real food: fatty meats and the like. It's unfortunate that along with fatty meats and low sugar veggies with fatty dressings I also had HUGE servings of starch and fructose/glucose drinks.

I replaced a bunch of chewy, bland, nutritionally-void flavorless raw energy from sugar and starch for delicious food. I eat tangy/spicy guacamole with soy chips... omelets... lasagne (trade the chewy calorie-laden starch for eggplant)... I don't even miss my starchy side dishes because I've replaced them all with LC alternatives (god bless you, cauliflower). In fact, I just got done eating a delicious to die for NY cheesecake w/ strawberries and sugar-free jam. Best of all, I am NEVER hungry... and if I am hungry I eat something because hunger is NOT part of the LC way.

I get to enjoy rich flavorful food, always feel full, and lose weight too. What more could you ask for in a plan?

I think that people have an unfortunate tendency to confuse the Atkins weight-loss phases with the Atkins maintenance phases. Atkins seems very clear (to me, at least), that as people approach their goal weight they need to increase healthy, low glycemic carbs and this will result in cutting the amount of fat in their diet. Most people (with the exception of people like me who start out with well over 100 pounds to lose) reach their goal weight in a couple of months.

If someone is concerned about eating saturated fat, there is no reason that person has to eat a lot of saturated fat while following Atkins. Yes, you do need to eat a diet that is higher in fat than the average American diet, but the majority of that fat can come from fish, olive oil, etc. There are quite a few people posting on this board who are following Atkins and don't eat red meat. I do eat red meat, but I don't love it and I only eat it a couple of times a week at most. I get most of my protein from fish, chicken, eggs, and cheese. That's my personal choice because those are the foods I like -- I am convinced that saturated fat is only unhealthy when consumed in combination with large amount of carbohydrates -- but there is no reason that someone who was concerned about eating too much saturated fat could not make the same food choices I do for different reasons. When I cook fish (which is one of my favorite foods, so I eat it several times a week), I put a mixture of olive oil and butter on the fish. Someone concerned about saturated fats could use all olive oil. Atkins doesn't say you have to eat lots of red meat; he just says that eating red meat in the absence of large quantities of carbohydrates will not have a negative effect on your cholesterol.

Given the lack of long-term studies on Atkins, I do think that those of us who are following the weight-loss phase of the diet for a long time should periodically get check-ups and monitor our physical health. I would feel the same way if I were following any other weight-loss problem long-term, since there are no good long-term studies on people who lose over 100 pounds and losing that amount of weight is a strain on one's body (although carrying the weight is an even bigger strain!). I had a check-up about a year ago, after nine months on Atkins. My cholesterol had dropped from 215 to 199, HDL was up, LDL was down, triglycerides had bottomed out at 52! My blood presure was also down. I have an appointment to get a check-up and more blood tests in a couple of weeks and I will post my results then. Given that my results were perfect a year ago, my insurance will not pay for tests more frequently than once a year or I probably would have gotten them done sooner.

Regardless of my blood test results (and I have every reason to expect them to continue to be excellent), I have a lot of trouble imagining that somehow I would be healthier than I am now if I was still carrying the 115 pounds I have lost, but I was eating more carbs and less fat! Losing the weight on a lowfat, low calorie diet was not an option for me. I tried that many times and could never stick to it. I thought that was because I had no willpower, but now I know it is because I was insulin resistant and the highcarb, lowfat diet created havoc with my blood sugar.

Just want to point out the obvious, Consumer Reports is not a long term study

Even their opinions on Slimfast and Weight Watchers is not based on long term studies, and never claimed to be.

Wa'il

Interestingly, I find I'm not eating any more protein then I used to eat, I'm just eating less of the fillers that go with meals in the form of pasta and bread (never was a big potatoe or rice fan). The other thing thats missing is the high carb/high fat snack foods like chips & chocolate. Go figure.

Liz175,

Great post.

Val