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  #1   ^
Old Thu, Mar-19-20, 09:26
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is online now
Posts: 6,892
 
Plan: EF/Fung IDM/keto
Stats: 375/241.6/175 Female 66.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 67%
Location: NE Florida
Default Ace2

I was reading yesterday that folks with high blood pressure and diabetes tend to be the ones who do much worse and account for many of the Covid fatalities. Apparently itís known that Covid works by binding to the ACE2 receptors in your lungs, and there are certain high BP meds (the ACE inhibitors) and certain diabetes meds (not sure which ones) which increase the number of ACE2 receptors in your body, giving the virus more things to latch on to!

Of course ACE inhibitors are one of the most commonly prescribed BP meds and also (maybe until now) the sort most recommended for Seniors.

Naturally the medical community tells people if you are on one of these sorts of meds donít dream of trying to stop it.

Iím enjoying my self-imposed exile other than missing the grandkids so terribly. Iím T2 diabetic and within the last year, after having normal BP all my life, began getting high numbers. My BG had gotten elevated too.

Luckily I have a doctor who is not a pill pusher and she agreed that I could have time to get those numbers under control with natural means. So I doubled down on LCHF but could not get either those numbers or my weight (as usual) to budge, so then I went strict keto and still could not get any of those numbers to budge. I was getting desperate as I didnít want meds.

Finally, less than two weeks ago, I went full-out Carnivore. And my weight, BP, and BG have been dropping steadily ever since.

Funny, if I had gone on BP meds I would have demanded an ACE inhibitor as I had read those were the sort best for Seniors and with least side effects. 😉

But as of now Iím not on any meds likely to increase my ACE2 receptors. Apparently ibuprofen increases ACE2 receptors also which is why they are saying not to take it. Itís the only OTC med that works for me for pain, and I wonít have acetaminophen in the house, so guess Iíll just tough it out if I develop any aches or pains.

Anyone else hearing about this:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/...0116-8/fulltext

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  #2   ^
Old Thu, Mar-19-20, 13:49
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 13,781
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 255/214/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Certainly makes sense.

The explanation for the older folks suseotability has been they usually have an underlying diseases issue. No mention of the effects of the drugs used for treatment, of course.

When my teens get sick, I dont encourage treatment of the fever. Let the body raise its temperature to kill off the bug. Like it is meant to.

I dont push food either. Figure fasting as a job too when we are sick.

So much of my thinking about disease has morphed since learning about keto and related health issues.


Good to know full on carnivore smacked down those numbers!!
More is sure to emerge in the weeks to come.
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  #3   ^
Old Thu, Mar-19-20, 13:59
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cotonpal cotonpal is offline
Posts: 4,815
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Vermont
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I had read about Ace2 and the virus. I am so glad I do not take any prescription meds. I certainly used to. I no longer have any pain killers in my house. I took some tylenol in August when I broke my wrist but gave it up after a day. I don't want that stuff in my body. I am doing my best to stay pain free.
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  #4   ^
Old Fri, Mar-20-20, 03:51
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 12,832
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/123/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 139%
Location: USA
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Thanks for bringing this up, Debbie! DH is on lisinopril, and he doesn't always take it if his pressure is low. I'll be telling him about this latest development.
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  #5   ^
Old Fri, Mar-20-20, 10:17
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is online now
Posts: 6,892
 
Plan: EF/Fung IDM/keto
Stats: 375/241.6/175 Female 66.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 67%
Location: NE Florida
Default

My doctor did persuade me to give low-dose lisinopril at one point but I was one of the small number that developed a known side effect of a constant cough. It had me coughing so hard and often that eventually I began coughing up blood! I said no more for me and now Iím glad about it.

Though I was also reading that being obese also increases the number of ACE2 receptors in your body, a possible reason why obese people are especially at risk too (though probably a large percentage of them have co-morbidities and are on meds, so who knows?).

<sigh>. Not much I can do about the obesity part right now though.
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, Apr-15-20, 08:08
Demi's Avatar
Demi Demi is offline
Posts: 22,968
 
Plan: Keto/IF
Stats: 217/191/160 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 46%
Location: UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merpig
Luckily I have a doctor who is not a pill pusher and she agreed that I could have time to get those numbers under control with natural means. So I doubled down on LCHF but could not get either those numbers or my weight (as usual) to budge, so then I went strict keto and still could not get any of those numbers to budge. I was getting desperate as I didnít want meds.

Finally, less than two weeks ago, I went full-out Carnivore. And my weight, BP, and BG have been dropping steadily ever since.

This is very interesting to read about your Carnivore experience with regard to lowering your BP.

I have been having problems with my blood pressure again (if interested full details in my journal) and find it very frustrating that a combination of keto/IF and exercise is not helping at all.

Funnily enough, I'm currently reading Paul Saladino's The Carnivore Code, and it makes a lot of sense, and if going full-out Carnivore can help with my BP as well as it has worked for you, then so much the better
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Apr-15-20, 09:23
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,475
 
Plan: Keto/DrWestman/IF/DrFung
Stats: 222/172/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 94%
Location: NC
Default

I have heard so many Ketogenic focused podcasts that cover immunity and ACE lately, I sadly cannot say which had the most info relevant to your question. My first pick would be Dr. Malcolm Kendrick, he has been writing a lot about Covid, this post is one about ACE (but there are others before/after it)
https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/...ovid-19-update/

I also heard his recent podcast with The Carnivore MD on heart disease, a section on ACE. https://carnivoremd.com/what-really...lcolm-kendrick/

The CarnivoreMD has FIVE recent podcasts on the Coronavirus, and they are all long, but he does Time Stamp his podcasts . https://carnivoremd.com/category/podcasts/.

A short one page from Dr. Robert Lustig: https://robertlustig.com/2020/03/real-food-coronavirus/

A good new podcast with Dr. Paul Mason and Ivor Cummins. Net down controversial conclusion, the risk of Covid can be reduced with a diet of only meat, fish and eggs, so Keep On, Keepin' On Carnivore.

Last edited by JEY100 : Wed, Apr-15-20 at 09:29.
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, Apr-15-20, 12:48
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is online now
Posts: 6,892
 
Plan: EF/Fung IDM/keto
Stats: 375/241.6/175 Female 66.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 67%
Location: NE Florida
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi
This is very interesting to read about your Carnivore experience with regard to lowering your BP.
)
Iím doing pretty well with primarily carnivore as itís pretty simple in these odd times, and I have no need to run out to grocery stores for fresh produce, etc.

But Iím thinking itís mainly giving up coffee that is responsible for the BP drop. After a couple weeks of BP mostly humming along in the roughly 120/80 range I accidentally made coffee one morning instead of decaf, and BP was 160/90 that day! Next morning, after the caffeine had 24 hours to clear my system, I was back to 125/77.

Iíve been fighting the BP thing for a while and I think some of the other things that have helped are Hibiscus (either capsule or as tea), Magnesium, and 15 minutes daily of slow, deep breathing exercises.
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  #9   ^
Old Wed, Apr-15-20, 12:57
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GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,424
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merpig
Iím doing pretty well with primarily carnivore as itís pretty simple in these odd times, and I have no need to run out to grocery stores for fresh produce, etc.

But Iím thinking itís mainly giving up coffee that is responsible for the BP drop. After a couple weeks of BP mostly humming along in the roughly 120/80 range I accidentally made coffee one morning instead of decaf, and BP was 160/90 that day! Next morning, after the caffeine had 24 hours to clear my system, I was back to 125/77.

Iíve been fighting the BP thing for a while and I think some of the other things that have helped are Hibiscus (either capsule or as tea), Magnesium, and 15 minutes daily of slow, deep breathing exercises.

Interesting observation and results on quitting coffee, I believe I'm one who is sensitive as well, and I've been going through the same process of quitting. Had a pretty solid headache the other day after about 36 hours without coffee, but it cleared quickly. I'll take your advice and check my BP as well. I think I was using coffee as a HWC delivery system . . . .
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  #10   ^
Old Thu, Apr-16-20, 04:13
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 12,832
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/123/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 139%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
A good new podcast with Dr. Paul Mason and Ivor Cummins. Net down controversial conclusion, the risk of Covid can be reduced with a diet of only meat, fish and eggs, so Keep On, Keepin' On Carnivore.


To me, the link between metabolic dysfunction and COVID-19 complications is fairly obvious once we realize just how much chronic disease is expressed via autoimmunity disorders. A recent Fundamental Health (Dr. Paul Saladino is the author of The Carnivore Code) podcast with Dr. Terry Wahls:

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/pa...o-md/e/67250339

Led to me being reminded me that in her book, she listed so many issues that are not generally recognized as autoimmune. This includes all issues we might characterize as insulin resistance diseases. This includes cardio-vascular issues that lead to heart attacks, the progressive kidney disease diabetics are prone to develop, nerve disorders like neuropathy, and an unknown, but likely large, proportion of mental illnesses linked to brain inflammation.

It has led to me wincing at people on social media creating a flour shortage with the constant baking. The Junk Food Coping Mechanism can have immediate consequences now.

It's a good listen if you skip the first eleven minutes of self-promotion. One thing Dr. Wahls shares is how she was kale-crazy during part of her recovery; and felt it negatively if she didn't get her giant salads daily. Likewise, I have a handful of greens a day with my meat/dairy big meal: it seems to help with satiety.

As Dr. Wahls says, it can be a quirk of her genetics; but of course, she's wouldn't be the only one.
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  #11   ^
Old Thu, Apr-16-20, 05:11
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,475
 
Plan: Keto/DrWestman/IF/DrFung
Stats: 222/172/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 94%
Location: NC
Default

Those time stamps on Dr Saladino's podcasts are so useful to find the true beginning and end, but gosh, the interviews are still long

An Ivor Cummins interview:

Ep. 64, Dr Ali on Covid and ACE 2 inhibitor drugs interaction.

https://thefatemperor.com/ep64-nadi...g-interactions/

Last edited by JEY100 : Thu, Apr-16-20 at 09:32.
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  #12   ^
Old Thu, Apr-16-20, 09:42
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bluesinger bluesinger is offline
Posts: 4,476
 
Plan: TheraKeto~Atkins72
Stats: 170/137/140 Female 62 inches
BF:24%
Progress: 110%
Location: Nevada Desert, USA
Default

The Governor of Nevada sends a report out every day, and the graph of the age distribution of the infected is interesting. As you can see, the distribution is fairly even, but I was surprised at the 30-50 age range. I thought you might be interested.

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  #13   ^
Old Thu, Apr-16-20, 10:41
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 13,781
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 255/214/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: Massachusetts
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Imo, reflects the impact of SAD. Its across all age groups.

Some areas showed the oldest age group as the most affected......
the data is a bit confusing.
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  #14   ^
Old Thu, Apr-16-20, 11:36
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is online now
Posts: 12,324
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/188/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 44%
Location: Texas
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I would look at the 50-70+ which shows close to 50% of the cases.
But also realize that those people tested are already sick with symptoms so it's not a true percentage of the total population, but a percentage of the people already sick.
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  #15   ^
Old Thu, Apr-16-20, 13:18
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 13,781
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 255/214/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

yes. true.

NIH is planning to do a large study to determine the number of positives among the symptom free.
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