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  #1   ^
Old Sun, Nov-16-03, 07:40
barefoot1 barefoot1 is offline
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Posts: 109
 
Plan: Protein Power/Atkins
Stats: 244/202/160 Female 5'6''
BF:
Progress: 50%
Location: Northern Virginia
Default South Beach and Good Fats

I've been reading the South Beach book this past week and I'm always curious to see if any of these book authors take issue with the Eades or Atkins,

but there's something I don't see covered in the book and maybe someone can point me to the right page.

It doesn't appear that Agatson is downplaying fat as he is downplaying the *kind* of fat we eat.

Do I understand him correctly? Is also advocating lowfat eating (say it isn't so,! LOL)


Thanks, barefoot
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  #2   ^
Old Sun, Nov-16-03, 16:28
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
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Posts: 35,986
 
Plan: DANDR '92
Stats: 241/175/140 Female 165 cm
BF:
Progress: 65%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
Default

hi there,

Although Agatston states at the beginning "this is not a low fat diet" (right after he states "this is not a low carb diet") .. he's quite vague when it comes to amount of fat a person is supposed to consume. The menus and recipes are low fat. Lots of egg-white and lowfat egg-substitute omelets cooked in a non-stick pan with cooking spray. Skinless chicken breast only, no dark meat. Recipes that provide to 1 tsp oil per serving. One of the gourmet recipes has a mayonnaise sauce, which comes to 2 or 3 Tbsp per serving. There's a note accompanyiing, which cautions dieters to use the sauce sparingly, "not like soup" .. and recommends saving leftovers

So, one might assume that liberal use of olive or other allowed oil is just fine, but if the menu planner is the example of how the diet is to be put into practise, then it's definitely low fat. Also the diet is low in calories overall, averaging 1200 - 1300 per day by the menus.

As for his villification of saturated fats ... the book's description of what happens after a person consumes a meal high in saturated fat is based on a high carb diet where insulin levels are higher. Unfortunately, the author doesn't provide any references for further reading.


Doreen
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  #3   ^
Old Sun, Nov-16-03, 16:41
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
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Posts: 35,986
 
Plan: DANDR '92
Stats: 241/175/140 Female 165 cm
BF:
Progress: 65%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
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re - "Good" Fats ...

The only bad fats are processed fats and oils which contain harmful trans fatty acids. Naturally occuring fats and oils, including saturated fat .. are "good" and suitable for a healthy diet. IMO, it's important to include a VARIETY of fats in one's diet, and not just focus on one type or avoid another.

Mary Enig, PhD has researched and written extensively on the vital role of fats in our diet, including saturated fats. Folks might be interested to read the following series of articles by Enig, published at the Weston A. Price foundation website .. Know Your Fats.


Doreen
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  #4   ^
Old Fri, Jan-09-04, 09:03
ckoudsi617's Avatar
ckoudsi617 ckoudsi617 is offline
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Posts: 47
 
Plan: The South Beach Diet
Stats: 192.0/168.5/142.0 Female 64 inches
BF:39%/36%/25%
Progress: 47%
Location: Boston, MA
Wink Explanation: Why I agree with most posters here

I agree with other posters who have said that Atkins and South Beach are more alike than different (other than the saturated fat issue). I also agree that there probably is no "perfect" diet, nor any doctor who is absolutely correct. That's why different eating plans work (or do not work) differently for different people. That is also why I chose the South Beach Plan for the most part. It seems the most flexible and the easiest to live with my own particular lifestyle and favorite foods.I would not presume to "knock" anyone's else's chosen plan as long it is working for that person and his or her health is steadily improving. If so, then it is definitely a great plan for him or her, and she should stick with it!

I like the good carbs/bad carbs idea of SBD, but I am not consciously restrictive of the saturated fats. However, since I am on an approximately 1,500 calorie per day "budget", I tend to limit things like saturated fats mainly because of the added calories, where I much would prefer to "spend" my calories on other foods I enjoy more. (Although South Beach does not require you to log in your daily food consumption, it just seems to work better for me. I use a spreadsheet I have designed which calculates all this for me and tracks carbs and water as well.)

Because I am on a calorie budget, I also like the "low glycemic" approach in SBD because there is a lot of diabetes in my family and I wish to avoid that road for as long as I can. (Atkins also appears to be in line with the low-sugar approach.) What I like more about SBD is that is allows you to have more whole grain and other natural carbs in the latter phases, which tend to fill me up better and stay with me longer so that I am not hungry as often. Even, though-by the way-I also agree that the differences between Atkins and SBD tend to "flatten out" the further you go in the plan.

A lot of my choices are simply taste. I don't really like the taste of fatty meats and I much prefer the taste of oils like olive, peanut or sesame rather than canola, which to me has no flavor at all. Sunflower oil is okay, too. I think if we learn to "listen" better, our bodies will eventually tell us which foods are best for us, as individuals.

For all you other "beachers" I found another great site which has many good recipes -- neatly organized and all in one place! The lady who runs it is very nice too. Just click on http://www.mizfrogspad.com/south_beach_diet.htm and you'll see what I mean. There is a list on the left with direct links to all sorts of recipes for all the different phases - it's GREAT! For example, look at this simple dessert recipe:
Pumpkin Pudding Six servings. Original version from Libby's at http://www.verybestbaking.com. This is a low fat, sugar-free version.

1 pkg. (1-oz, 4-serving size) vanilla instant pudding and pie filling mix
(I use the Jello sugar free pudding mix.)
1 can (12 oz) fat-free evaporated milk
1 can (15 oz) pure pumpkin (not pie filling mix)
1 tsp. pumpkin pie spice
Beat together pudding and milk. Refrigerate 5 minutes. Mix in pumpkin and spices. Put in six dessert dishes and refrigerate 10 minutes before serving.

Note: Instead of the pumpkin pie spice, you can substitute 1/2 tsp. cinnamon, 1/4 tsp. ginger, and 1/4 teaspoon nutmeg, and maybe a dash of cloves. Or just use 1 teaspoon cinnamon. You can also top with fat-free Cool Whip or Ketogenics maple butter-flavored syrup.

I'm so happy to find other lowcarbers who are on SBD. I'll be looking for all of your posts. Have a grea day, everyone!

Last edited by ckoudsi617 : Fri, Jan-09-04 at 10:10.
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  #5   ^
Old Fri, Jan-09-04, 10:25
ckoudsi617's Avatar
ckoudsi617 ckoudsi617 is offline
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Posts: 47
 
Plan: The South Beach Diet
Stats: 192.0/168.5/142.0 Female 64 inches
BF:39%/36%/25%
Progress: 47%
Location: Boston, MA
Post Direct quote from SBD site re: FATS

Source: http://www.southbeachdiet.com/aboutdiet/carbs.asp

"Good Fats vs. Bad Fats"

"To make up for the overall cut in carbohydrates, my diet permits ample fats and animal proteins. This decision flies in the face of the famous diets that had been developed specifically for people with heart problems, like Pritikin and Ornish. For a cardiologist, this was skating on thin ice. But my experience with patients showed that those so-called heart-healthy diets were nearly impossible to stick to, because they relied too heavily on the dieters' ability to eat super-low fat over the long haul. The South Beach Diet permits lean beef, pork, veal, and lamb."

"The low-fat regimen's severe restrictions on meat were unnecessary-the latest studies had shown that lean meat did not have a harmful effect on blood chemistry. Even egg yolks are good for you, contrary to what we once believed. They're a source of natural vitamin E and have a neutral-to-favorable effect on our balance between good and bad cholesterol. Chicken, turkey, and fish (especially the oily ones, such as salmon, tuna, and mackerel) were recommended on my diet, along with nuts and low-fat cheeses and yogurt."

"As a rule, low-fat prepared foods can be a bad idea-the fats are replaced with carbs, which are fattening. But low-fat dairy products, such as cheese, milk, and yogurt are exceptions to this rule-they are nutritious and not fattening."


"I also allowed plenty of healthy mono- and polyunsaturated fats, like the Mediterranean ones: Olive oil, canola oil, and peanut oil. These are the good fats. They can actually reduce the risk of heart attack or stroke. In addition to being beneficial, they make food more palatable. They're filling, too-a major consideration for a diet that promises that you won't have to go hungry." --Dr. Agatston

This pretty much covers it, I think. Hope this helps! (I will check my book, too and post more detail if I find any.)

Have a wonderful day/night.

Last edited by ckoudsi617 : Fri, Jan-09-04 at 10:28.
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  #6   ^
Old Fri, Jan-09-04, 19:19
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
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Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
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Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
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Quote:
You can also top with fat-free Cool Whip


Not a good idea, IMHO. Even fat-free Cool Whip has hydrogenated oils in it (which makes me wonder how on earth they can claim that it's fat free). Read the label the next time you see some in the store.
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  #7   ^
Old Sat, Jan-10-04, 09:54
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
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Posts: 35,986
 
Plan: DANDR '92
Stats: 241/175/140 Female 165 cm
BF:
Progress: 65%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckoudsi617
1 pkg. (1-oz, 4-serving size) vanilla instant pudding and pie filling mix
(I use the Jello sugar free pudding mix.)
1 can (12 oz) fat-free evaporated milk
1 can (15 oz) pure pumpkin (not pie filling mix)
1 tsp. pumpkin pie spice
Beat together pudding and milk. Refrigerate 5 minutes. Mix in pumpkin and spices. Put in six dessert dishes and refrigerate 10 minutes before serving.

Note: Instead of the pumpkin pie spice, you can substitute 1/2 tsp. cinnamon, 1/4 tsp. ginger, and 1/4 teaspoon nutmeg, and maybe a dash of cloves. Or just use 1 teaspoon cinnamon. [color=purple]

Evaporated fat-free milk may be lowish on the Glycemic Index, but pumpkin is moderately high GI (75), as are the refined starch carbs in the instant pudding mix. Folks might prefer to use 1 cups (12 fl oz) soy milk .. soy milks are low-GI and contain NO saturated fat. Unsweetened soy milks have 5g of carbs or less per cup (8 fl oz).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa N
Even fat-free Cool Whip has hydrogenated oils in it (which makes me wonder how on earth they can claim that it's fat free). Read the label the next time you see some in the store.

In the US, manufacturers are allowed to label a food as "zero grams of fat" if the actual content per serving is less than 0.5g .. even if it's 0.499g. Note that 'one serving" of Cool Whip, fat-free or otherwise, is 2 level Tablespoons. Those grams of hydrogenated trans fat can add up quickly .. not to mention the 3g high-glycemic carbs per serving.

Toasted sliced almonds or chopped macadamia nuts would make a nice South Beach legal topping for this dessert.


hth,

Doreen
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