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  #1141   ^
Old Sat, Feb-09-19, 08:39
FREE2BEME's Avatar
FREE2BEME FREE2BEME is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,597
 
Plan: Atkins & IF
Stats: 258/206/150 Female 65 inches
BF:
Progress: 48%
Location: Japan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
Lots of people responding to this thread:

the case against snacking

About meal timing, and how many carbs, too.

What a great thread!! Lots of great reading! Thanks!
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  #1142   ^
Old Mon, Feb-11-19, 09:09
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 10,804
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
ooohhh... a new book by Dr. Fung and Dr. Salt Fix, Dr. James DiNicolantonio

The Longevity Solution

https://www.amazon.com/Longevity-So...g/dp/1628603798


Our county library system ordered 39 copies! Fortuitously, being published shortly after my 68th birthday
Either the other Dr. Fung books it has are popular items, or we certainly do have a large retired population now...whatever, looking forward to reading this and sharing fasting with more people who would have been unlikely to pick up the book actually titled Fasting.
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  #1143   ^
Old Mon, Feb-11-19, 12:21
CityGirl8 CityGirl8 is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 230
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 237/229/145 Female 5'9"
BF:49.5%/48.5%/25%
Progress: 9%
Location: PNW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojolissa
I have some questions about OMAD.
I'm getting conflicting info about whether this is sustainable.
How can fasting be healthy, but OMAD be unhealthy?
Is it just because you shouldn't do it long-term? why not?
I don't think it's that OMAD is considered unhealthy. It's just that if you are doing it to lose weight, eventually your body settles it to it and your weight loss will slow or stop, if that's all you're doing.
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  #1144   ^
Old Mon, Feb-11-19, 13:44
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 10,804
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojolissa
I have some questions about OMAD.
I'm getting conflicting info about whether this is sustainable.
How can fasting be healthy, but OMAD be unhealthy?
Is it just because you shouldn't do it long-term? why not?


Not unhealthy, but not optimal for weight loss.
As always, what is your goal

"The problem with OMAD is in its repetition. Eating one meal a day is a pattern easily recognized by the body and by doing the same behavior every day, the body does what it does naturally Ė it adapts. It is this adaptation that causes problems. Namely, the body simply slows its BMR."



Answer quoted from the The Obesity Code FB Files:

Quote:

Introduction

This document will explain one meal a day (OMAD). This is one of the most frequently asked questions. It will explain when and for whom it may be appropriate and why it isnít appropriate for everyone.

What Is OMAD?
OMAD in this group means eating one meal at the end of an approximately 24hr fast. Conversely, eating one meal a day in conjunction with longer fasts (e.g., fasting for 48hrs, eating one meal, then beginning another fast) is NOT considered OMAD (at least not in the sense that causes concern). Here are two more examples to help clarify.

Example 1: If you fasted from Sunday night after dinner until Tuesday night before dinner, you only consumed one meal on Tuesday. However, because this one meal on Tuesday was at the end of an approximate 48hr fast, this is not describing what we normally mean by OMAD.

Example 2: If you fasted from Sunday night after dinner until Monday night before dinner, you only consumed one meal on Monday and only fasted approximately 24hrs. This is what we normally mean by OMAD.

Post from Dr. Fung

On October 3, 2018, Dr. Fung posted the following in regard to OMAD:
Everybody responds differently. Some people do OMAD successfully, but we've seen many in the clinic who do well initially, then plateau. The body can often adapt, even to OMAD. That's when we usually change things up - either longer or shorter fasts. Changing the fasting periods often helps keep the body from adapting to a certain weight. But if you are doing OMAD without problems, then there is no reason to change.

Why Isnít OMAD Good for Weight Loss?

OMAD can easily become like a calorie restrictive diet. It is a great tool once you reach your goals and want to maintain. It does work for weight loss for some people but eventually they find they will stall. So we suggest that you mix it up. You can do OMAD with other protocols during the week such as 2 meals a day (2mad) or a longer fast of 36, 42 etc. 14.

More About Calorie Restriction.

IDM considers OMAD calorie restriction for two reasons. First, most people cannot consume more than 1200 in a single meal. Second, when one eats reduced calories over time their bodies sense this reduction and their BMR slows down.

Why does this occur?
Many of us come from a history or yo-yo dieting or severe low calorie dieting. So our metabolism needs to heal and rev up. The way to do that is by feeding ourselves good foods and it needs to be enough to carry us from meal to meal. OMAD can be a great tool temporarily for some folk without a history of yo-yo who are close to goal. That describes very few of us.

See also, Metabolism blog posts at https://idmprogram.com/tag/metabolism/

The ideal fasting protocol for weight loss is alternate day fasting while consuming two meals on eating days. Trust the process. It is hard when you are starting out to increase your food consumption. If you donít, though, you stall.

Fear of Overeating

Many experience fear of overeating. An IDM educator suggested a client giving up on tracking and weighing oneself, and eating meals to satiety, and adding fat using healthy oils or fatty fish/pork belly/ marbled meats. Avoid the scales can be difficult. It can be even more difficult not to track. The client had a 3000+ day streak on MFP! With some ADFs, at the end of the month the client had lost 8.7lbs. This exercise reinforces that we need to trust the process.
Read The Complete Guide to Fasting if you havenít. It was my bible during that time and still is.

OMAD Is a Form of Eating, Not Fasting.

A day does not go by in this group in which the moderators and admins are not asked about OMAD. It is a very popular subject and for many people who work 9-5 M-F, it meshes nicely into their lifestyles because they can eat their one meal with their families after work. However, many are also shocked to learn it is not a form of fasting. It is actually a form of eating Ė eating one meal a day. It is really not fasting AT ALL!

The problem with OMAD is in its repetition. Eating one meal a day is a pattern easily recognized by the body and by doing the same behavior every day, the body does what it does naturally Ė it adapts. It is this adaptation that causes problems. Namely, the body simply slows its BMR. At first when you start OMAD, the BMR stays very high. However, after a while BMR inevitable slows down. It might take the body some time to adapt, but it does. First with energy levels, then with other metabolic operations and at some point, as we see quite consistently, BMR just slows down, and the inevitable plateau follows. If you are trying to lose weight, this is not a good situation. In fact, what we need is the opposite: a way to speed up BMR.

How to Increase BMR?

There are a few ways to increase BMR. They include alternate day fasting, mixing up fasting patterns during the week, and finally longer fasts. OMAD, coupled with a day or two of skipping meals altogether, will do it too.

Exceptions

Weíre all different and there will always be exceptions. There are some instances where OMAD will work. First there is the person who has only 20-30 pounds to lose. In this case, OMAD works well.
Next, there is the class of people who have NO history of yoyo dieting. Third, there are those who are at goal weight, and OMAD is a good way to do weight maintenance.

If you truly want to try OMAD, of course you are free to do so. If you are successful, congratulations on being in the minority. However, if you are unsuccessful, it is probably time to change your plan and use IDM as it is intended Ė to heal obesity.

Final Words of Wisdom

Fast on, my friends! DO not get caught in the OMAD trap! Mix it up; try alternate day fasts; donít be afraid to join a mod fast. We run at least one mod fast every week and there members can ask questions freely and get almost real-time answers!

So, some final educated thoughts on OMAD. Itís a double-edged sword. Eating one meal daily might give you weight loss, which is great, BUT you also run the risk of not getting enough nutrients, slowing your BMR. If you have a history of yo-yo dieting, gaining and regaining, then your metabolism has most likely slowed down. Your body does not trust you to feed it enough so eating OMAD can easily cause weight gain if your BMR is very slow. The only benefit to OMAD is the fact youíre only stimulating insulin once a day. However, many people donít technically really eat OMAD because they may drink fatty coffees. IDM has clearly indicated in many of its resources that OMAD must be combined with 2MAD and fasting...if itís used at all. And this pattern is directed at people who are in maintenance. When people are still highly IR or have weight to lose, OMAD is not ideal at all.



This document is the property of OCN and may not be used without the express written permission of OCN
.
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  #1145   ^
Old Mon, Feb-11-19, 19:23
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,903
 
Plan: HF/vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
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Having dieted for 50 years, when I wasn't tracking what I ate I often binged, but once I found that vLCvHF kept me satiated and I was maintaining, I decided to test whether I could trust my appetite. I stayed on plan but didn't enter what I ate into my computer program (where I might be tempted to eat more that day or cut calories the next day and slow my metabolism), but did it jot it down on paper to enter after four weeks of eating "when hungry". I found that I ate 3500 calories of steak, fat etc one day and naturally ate less the next day and each week averaged to ~1900 calories without trying to control it. I was shocked to find my body/hormones actually did what they were supposed to be doing. If I eat OMAD and am hungry at 6 am the next day, I eat! I'm a true believer in mixing it up so my BMR doesn't adapt. In my LFHC days I'd eat 1100 cals and exercise for 45+ minutes every single day and gain if I ate more. Now I hum along eating 1750 vLCvHF calories with no exercise or 1900 calories or more when I do a lot of hiking.

Last edited by deirdra : Mon, Feb-11-19 at 19:31.
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  #1146   ^
Old Mon, Feb-11-19, 20:35
FREE2BEME's Avatar
FREE2BEME FREE2BEME is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,597
 
Plan: Atkins & IF
Stats: 258/206/150 Female 65 inches
BF:
Progress: 48%
Location: Japan
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Iím still struggling to figure out what fasting routine works well with my family. I feel I could and should throw in a 36 hour fast once or twice a week, but I donít want to screw my kids up about food, if that makes sense. My kids arenít overweight and one is considered underweight by the school BMI charts, but he does ballet, eats more than my husband and is super active. My middle child, also a boy, is ďsoftĒ but not overweight. My daughter is kind of a mixture of both. Iíve never told them Iím on a diet, but tell them that Iím passing up dessert (semi rare event in our household) because I want to be healthier. I tell them I donít need rice at dinner because I have stored energy that I want to use up. Kids just shrug and move on if we donít make a big deal about it. But when theyíre at school, fasting is easy, so I got into the OMAD rut. Iíd do 2MAD on Saturday and Sunday.

But Iíve started weight training since about a week ago, on top of the 30-40 minutes of cardio that I was doing most days, so Iíve upped my protein because I adore Dr. Phinney. 😆 Iíve been eating a 35+ grams of protein in the middle of that day, if Iíve worked out, and then eat a low carb dinner with my family. Iím pretty sure Iím messing this fasting thing up, but I started it in early September and I canít believe all the benefits Iíve experienced. To be fair, I also gave up my Diet Coke addiction and most recently, 90% of the dairy I was consuming, which was horribly inflammatory for me. One of the things that gave me the idea to cut dairy was a comment in an old post by deirdra. You commented about the benefits you experienced by cutting out dairy.

But my whole reason for this post was to talk about a NSV that Iím sure came as a result of the fasting. I had this growth between my eyelid and eyebrow that started out like a pimple and then got a little wider. Most people probably didnít notice it, but I did. It appeared about two years ago and periodically I would notice it increased in size. I wondered if it was one of those cholesterol deposits that Iíve seen on peopleís eyelids, but Iíve read that you usually donít have them on just one eye. Theyíre typically symmetrical. Iím not sure if thatís true or not. Anyway, Iíve picked at it a few times over the course of the past two or three years and it gets angry and red and sometimes a tiny scab. Then it goes back to being skin colored and annoying me just by being there. 😆 So, a few days ago, I got annoyed again and squeezed it🤦‍♀️. It got red and I left it alone. I gave up pretty quickly this time. The next day, it has that little scab, like the other three or four times Iíve done this. The following day, while putting on makeup, I noticed some skin hanging, so I gently pulled and the whole thing came off!! The skin is nice and clean under it! It looks like there was never anything there!! So, in disbelief, I checked for the tiny skin tag that Iíve had under my breast since my last pregnancy and itís gone too!!! Iíve had that thing for 6 years!! 😲
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  #1147   ^
Old Tue, Feb-12-19, 03:47
s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
 
Plan: Atkins & IF
Stats: 000/014.5/015 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 97%
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^ that's amazing.
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  #1148   ^
Old Tue, Feb-12-19, 05:54
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 10,804
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Great news Brandy

I probably should not introduce other doctors into this thread, but Dr Ted Naiman was on the LC MD podcast this week, and that is Dr Fung's podcast now. He is well known as the higher protein guy, and I always liked his old 14 page explanation of Intermittent Fasting on his website.

It was in the final part of interview... he 1. finds woman patients do not see weight loss with fasting as much as men and 2. His Tips for when stalled above goal weight are to focus on low fat meats, (chicken breast, turkey bacon!) and remove dairy and nuts. Many proteins have naturally a tad more protein than fat, eg egg has 6g fat, 7g protein. The foods he recommends are on those Protein:Energy charts on his BurnFat website. http://burnfatnotsugar.com
And must add exercise.

This is the same as Dr Westman has said all along...if you still want to burn body fat, you do not need to eat fat except as it comes with real foods. Only a small amount of dairy and cheese is allowed for flavor. No nuts, and if stalled even that small amount of dairy goes.
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  #1149   ^
Old Today, 11:55
mojolissa's Avatar
mojolissa mojolissa is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,071
 
Plan: semi lc- OMAD w/IF
Stats: 229/224/199 Female 66.5"
BF:kickin it
Progress: 17%
Location: Michigan
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Thank you all for your input on my questions.
I may have to rethink OMAD and switch it up occasionally.

Intermittent fasting with OMAD was very effective, until it wasn't.
But to be fair, I wasn't staying very low-carb and some bad foods got back into the daily meals. I still lost weight tho.

When I went back to eating 3 meals a day and snacks. Bad foods stayed in my diet. (bad choice) weight came back very quickly. I can't help but wonder if my success would have continued, if I had stuck with the OMAD.
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