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  #151   ^
Old Fri, Apr-25-08, 15:56
Marillia's Avatar
Marillia Marillia is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 189
 
Plan: Minimal Crap (Atkinsish)
Stats: 170/137/140 Female Five feet, three inches
BF:
Progress: 110%
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Mitochondrial DNA shows that guinea pigs had no business being placed in the Rodentia order in the first place. Apparently they're more closely related to rabbits, horses, and even humans than mice and rats.

More here
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  #152   ^
Old Fri, Apr-25-08, 15:56
LessLiz's Avatar
LessLiz LessLiz is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 6,938
 
Plan: who knows
Stats: 337/204/180 Female 67 inches
BF:100% pure
Progress: 85%
Location: Pacific NW
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Those three quotes in a row sure are funny, especially with that lead in quote.
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  #153   ^
Old Fri, Apr-25-08, 16:59
francisstp's Avatar
francisstp francisstp is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 224
 
Plan: Atkins/PP/IF
Stats: 185/165/150 Male 70''
BF:
Progress: 57%
Location: Ottawa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyvrn
Of course, as far as I'm concerned, the main point of limiting the birth rate is to make sure that there is enough food to feed ALL the children.



I understand your concerns, but they stem from a static point of view. These children will certainly need nourishment, enlarging the food deficit in the short term.

However, there is no reason to believe these human beings won't one day be producing (much) more than they consume, like most of us do. By curbing birth rates now we are effectively curbing future productivity.

What is IMO a much more important problem and probably a big chunk of why food and energy prices are so out of whack right now is the cheap credit policy our central banks have in place, creating huge bubbles one after another and screwing up with incentives. This policy has enabled millions of westerners to consume over their means for years while not contributing much in terms of productivity. Needless to say that these habits are not sustainable.
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  #154   ^
Old Fri, Apr-25-08, 17:10
Baerdric's Avatar
Baerdric Baerdric is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 2,229
 
Plan: Neocarnivore
Stats: 375/345/250 Male 74 inches
BF:
Progress: 24%
Location: Vermont
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marillia
Apparently they're more closely related to rabbits,
Rabbits are rodents.

From your article:
Quote:
Not surprisingly for a report with such radical ramifications, other scientists attacked it as uncredible, naive and full of holes.

"It's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of," said Dr. Rodney Honeycutt, who studies the molecular evolution of rodents and other mammals at Texas A&M University. "There's a huge amount of data showing that rodents are unequivocally monophyletic."

Last edited by Baerdric : Fri, Apr-25-08 at 17:16.
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  #155   ^
Old Fri, Apr-25-08, 17:31
Cerridwen's Avatar
Cerridwen Cerridwen is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 480
 
Plan: keto/atkins/no cow dairy
Stats: 230/217/170 Female 5" 8'
BF:
Progress: 22%
Location: Eastern Ontario
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Ducks and geeses eat bugs. Muscovies are used for bugs specifically... good for weeds too.
Guinea fowl are good for bugs as well.
Cerridwen
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  #156   ^
Old Fri, Apr-25-08, 17:33
Baerdric's Avatar
Baerdric Baerdric is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 2,229
 
Plan: Neocarnivore
Stats: 375/345/250 Male 74 inches
BF:
Progress: 24%
Location: Vermont
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerridwen
Ducks and geeses eat bugs. Muscovies are used for bugs specifically... good for weeds too.
Guinea fowl are good for bugs as well.
Cerridwen
I am really interested in ducks. I want some for my yard, but I am afraid it's too small and that we get too cold in the winter. Do you know a good place to discuss ducks?
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  #157   ^
Old Fri, Apr-25-08, 17:51
Marillia's Avatar
Marillia Marillia is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 189
 
Plan: Minimal Crap (Atkinsish)
Stats: 170/137/140 Female Five feet, three inches
BF:
Progress: 110%
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Odd... other sources have it that rabbits were only considered rodents until the early 20th century, until they were reclassified as lagomorphs.

Either way, rabbits, guinea pigs, and rats can all be tasty and nutritious sources of meat. XP
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  #158   ^
Old Fri, Apr-25-08, 17:59
Baerdric's Avatar
Baerdric Baerdric is offline
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Posts: 2,229
 
Plan: Neocarnivore
Stats: 375/345/250 Male 74 inches
BF:
Progress: 24%
Location: Vermont
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marillia
Odd... other sources have it that rabbits were only considered rodents until the early 20th century, until they were reclassified as lagomorphs.
I'm just teasing you, I have a close friend who raises pigs and she gets all mad when I call them rodents too.

What she doesn't know is that I call any dog smaller than a german shepherd "rodents" too.

Quote:
Either way, rabbits, guinea pigs, and rats can all be tasty and nutritious sources of meat. XP
I wonder what the fat content is likely to be. I see a sign down the road sometimes that they sell rabbit meat, I might have to stop in and talk to them.
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  #159   ^
Old Fri, Apr-25-08, 18:01
ReginaW's Avatar
ReginaW ReginaW is offline
Contrarian
Posts: 2,759
 
Plan: Atkins/Controlled Carb
Stats: 275/190/190 Female 72
BF:Not a clue!
Progress: 100%
Location: Missouri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baerdric
I am really interested in ducks. I want some for my yard, but I am afraid it's too small and that we get too cold in the winter. Do you know a good place to discuss ducks?


We're pretty cold here in mid-MO - our neighbors have ducks - so many last year they had to move most of them to another site (they were up to 130 on 4-acres and they were making a mess of the water in the lake - worse, they prefered our yard!) to bring the total to six or less.....now they have 12 again ::: sigh ::: anyway - they have just a small coop structure to protect against the cold/wind/elements and seem to survive and breed.

Don't get me wrong, they're kinda cute - I've got no problem with ducks - except when there are too many of them, all over the place, to the point where your kid can't even go out in his own yard to play!
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  #160   ^
Old Fri, Apr-25-08, 18:34
Wyvrn's Avatar
Wyvrn Wyvrn is offline
Dog is my copilot
Posts: 1,448
 
Plan: paleo/lowcarb
Stats: 210/162/145 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 74%
Location: Olympia, WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by francisstp
I understand your concerns, but they stem from a static point of view. These children will certainly need nourishment, enlarging the food deficit in the short term.

However, there is no reason to believe these human beings won't one day be producing (much) more than they consume, like most of us do. By curbing birth rates now we are effectively curbing future productivity.
Up to a point (in population density) this is true, but we may have passed that point in the United States and certainly have in other parts of the world. The sustainability of agricultural practice is what will drive future productivity. How sustainable is the current intensive petroleum-based agriculture? If you don't have the raw materials, throwing labor at it won't help. http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/080904G.shtml
Quote:
This policy has enabled millions of westerners to consume over their means for years while not contributing much in terms of productivity. Needless to say that these habits are not sustainable.
I agree, Americans are incredibly insulated from the actual costs of our consumption.
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  #161   ^
Old Fri, Apr-25-08, 19:03
Baerdric's Avatar
Baerdric Baerdric is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 2,229
 
Plan: Neocarnivore
Stats: 375/345/250 Male 74 inches
BF:
Progress: 24%
Location: Vermont
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReginaW
I've got no problem with ducks - except when there are too many of them!
Are they edible, by that I mean do they plan to eat them or just breed them? Maybe you could offer to help them thin the herd....
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  #162   ^
Old Sat, Apr-26-08, 08:06
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 13,800
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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energy use history, united states

The above link gives an article for energy use in the united states going right back to colonial times.


I can't be that precise from looking at the chart, but it looks like oil use in the US has increased maybe 4000 percent since 1900. Coal use has barely tripled, and wood more or less leveled off.

The US population in 1900 was about 76 million. The US population today is maybe 300 million. They have four times as many people to feed. 40 times as much oil is consumed. I have trouble looking at these numbers and imagining America going hungry unless oil became very scarce indeed. (In our lifetimes, at least, I think the problem would be mostly making coal energy clean enough that people wouldn't mind so much having it in their backyards.)

In very recent history, China has been managing to produce enough food to feed itself. This on a much lower per capita oil consumption than the United States. They do use slightly more coal.
coal use per capita;
#1 China: 1,310,000,000
#2 United States: 1,060,000,000

oil use per capita;

#1 United States: 20,730,000 bbl/day
#2 China: 6,534,000 bbl/day

And check out India;
oil use per capita;
#6 India: 2,450,000 bbl/day

coal use per capita;
#3 India: 339,000,000

With a population close to China's, and with this kind of energy consumption,

Quote:
India is still a big unknown. While it has been a small net
agricultural exporter overall since 1990, in recent years there
have been many changes in its agriculture and trade policies
and significant changes in its net trade position for many
individual products.

sourceforindiaquote

Even if India came even close to feeding itself, say 90 percent, her per capita oil use would put the lie to the idea that the US is anywhere near having any trouble getting enough oil to feed itself. Of course, this is with eating a lot of grain, but also with a lot of people in the developing world (which I define as including India and China.) eating more meat than they used to.

Source for energy use per capita;energystatistics

Not that anyone not already in the choir will accept any of this. Assuming any of them are still awake.
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  #163   ^
Old Sat, Apr-26-08, 08:13
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 13,800
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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Oh yeah, and I'm pretty sure rabbits are wascally wodents. Trusting to Elmer Fudd.
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  #164   ^
Old Sat, Apr-26-08, 08:20
Baerdric's Avatar
Baerdric Baerdric is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 2,229
 
Plan: Neocarnivore
Stats: 375/345/250 Male 74 inches
BF:
Progress: 24%
Location: Vermont
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
oil use in the US has increased maybe 4000 percent since 1900.
Well yeah! There was no real use for oil before 1900! If you go from almost zero to any amount the percent of increase looks astronomical.

The use of cell phones has increased more than a billion percent since 1950.

If you wanted to be fair you would look at the increase in oil use in other countries since that time. Even then, since we exported a huge portion of our product to other countries, their oil use would not reflect the oil used by us to make their stuff. Our oil consumption has raised much of world out of the 15th century. We can debate whether that is a good thing, but those who now use trucks to bring water to their village would be on my side.

China grows food by taking formerly educated people and forcing them to do stoop labor 16 hours a day. My language teacher was among them until she escaped. She had been a newly appointed translator for a university until 1966 when she and her father were forced into labor in for the "People" as punishment for being educated.

I must be asleep because I remember history.

Last edited by Baerdric : Sat, Apr-26-08 at 08:32.
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  #165   ^
Old Sat, Apr-26-08, 09:22
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is online now
Posts: 8,462
 
Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/170/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 110%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReginaW
We're pretty cold here in mid-MO - our neighbors have ducks - so many last year they had to move most of them to another site (they were up to 130 on 4-acres and they were making a mess of the water in the lake - worse, they prefered our yard!) to bring the total to six or less.....now they have 12 again ::: sigh ::: anyway - they have just a small coop structure to protect against the cold/wind/elements and seem to survive and breed.

Don't get me wrong, they're kinda cute - I've got no problem with ducks - except when there are too many of them, all over the place, to the point where your kid can't even go out in his own yard to play!
Ducks come with their own down coat.
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