I just came upon this link too. I have downloaded the manifesto. I am trying to decided if I have the patience to read it. If not now then later. See you down the rabbit hole.

Congratulations, Glenda!

And Janet - what a find! Have just read one post (and downloaded the manifesto), but so interesting her formula for anticipating insulin response. Makes so much sense to me when she spells it out - and accords well with what we already know about how our bodies respond to carbs and protein.

Good site. I like that it pretty much explains the problem with dairy--sometimes you'll see something claiming that dairy is exceptionally insulinogenic, in a way that's not really explained by its carbohydrate content. But once you take into account the protein content, as well as the high digestibility of whey protein, the 'dairy paradox' pretty much disappears.

Also--it addresses the common accusation that beef is more insulinogenic than certain carbohydrate foods--it may be on a calorie basis, but it's not when you consider the protein/carbohydrate content. Getting 50 grams of protein from beef is not more insulinogenic than getting 50 grams of protein from peanuts--because by the time you've gotten there, with peanuts, you've eaten much more carbohydrate as well as calories, than if you'd gotten there eating the lean beef used in the insulin index study.

I haven't read through yet, but one more thing I'd like to see addressed is the effect of fat. With carbohydrate, adding butter vs. olive oil will increase the insulin response--I'd like to know what happens if butter were added to lean beef, vs. olive oil etc.

p.s., I posted this bit last week in my journal, related to protein and insulin;

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/66/5/1264.full.pdf

Okay, just for fun, from the insulin index study. Format here is insulin area under the curve for the listed food, followed by grams of protein and then the insulin area divided by the grams of protein.

cheese 5994 15 399
eggs 4744 19.6 242
beef 7910 42 188
fish 9350 56.3 166

Cheese and eggs look like the low insulin foods, beef and especially fish should be fattening, in comparison. Anybody actually believe this? At least, that cheese is less fattening than beef or fish? But when you look at insulin per gram of protein, things look a bit different. Twenty grams of protein as egg is less insulinogenic than 42 grams of protein as beef or 56 grams of protein as fish, this seems like a no-brainer. But suppose you're going to eat 30 grams of protein at a meal. Which will be least insulinogenic? 30 grams of protein from beef, fish, eggs, or cheese? It doesn't look very good for the cheese here.

Increasing protein increases insulin without increasing glucose intake--so of course the glucose-centric insulin index gets worse the more protein is added. Does this matter?

Cheese seems out of place, here--it has the lowest protein dose, but not the lowest insulin area under the curve. Maybe this answers a question I've wondered about--butter/milk fat increases the insulin response to carbohydrate more than olive oil or safflower oil. Does it increase the insulin response to a protein, as well?

Eggs-->beef-->fish--the numbers suggest the possibility that as protein is increased, the insulin area under the curve per additional gram of protein goes down as well. I wonder, if protein intake were put at an equal level, would there be much difference between these foods? Another possibility is that as calories from fat go down, insulin per gram of protein decreases as well.

Wow, that is a great resource! And there seems to be a 1:1 correlation between my LC trigger foods and their insulin index.

Cheese and very fatty beef (like pot roast) are binge-trigger foods for me, so I've always suspected that equal LC protein doses do not behave equally in my body. Though US cheese & beef have added hormones & antibiotics in the mix. I wonder why poultry was not included in the original insulin index research.

Originally Posted by JEY100
Speaking of Insulin Levels.....

Just found through another group.... the best description of the Insulin Index of Foods ever seen, can even print out a .pdf of foods II from a Blog that focuses on Optimizing Nutrition and Managing Insulin!! Check out this article and look around the website too...great information All About Insulin, Dr. Fung's focus.

https://optimisingnutrition.wordpre...nic-diet-foods/


Thanks for this great link. It has a lot of useful info.

My sister has a small scale farm, mostly raises enough to feed her family. Grass-fed, organic hormone free milk doesn't seem to spare me the effects of cheese at all. That probably affects my attitude towards "just eat real food." Yes, but--I can easily organic, hormone-free, grass-fed my way into a fifteen pound weight gain, if I forget to be downright paranoid about carbohydrate content. And I have.

It is weird that they didn't look at chicken, it's such a popular food.

Great website! I read through much of his manifesto, he has a very readable, "ordinary man" type style. Puts together a lot of the concepts that often seem to be dueling. Thanks for the link.

Hey All,

So I am still in my first 36 hour fast. The day has been good, except I've been wanting to eat. Not so much hungry as just wanting to eat. I've secluded myself in my bedroom and have avoided making a trip to the kitchen for some ice.

The main goal of starting all of this is to get control of my blood sugar. Morning reading was 295, as of about 10 minutes ago (~10 PM), it was 217. Hasn't been lower than 233 in weeks. So far, so good. I expect that it will take a few weeks or days to slowly bring it down to a more reasonable level. I still plan on having breakfast tomorrow, and I'm looking forward to it.

You're doing great! Drink lots of water, read a book, take a walk in the Spring sunshine.
You can do it.

Thanks Bluesinger

Hunger is part physiology and part habit and the habit part can be hard to break. What you are doing is so important for your health. I find if I can keep my eyes on the prize, remind myself about why I am doing what I am doing (why I am restricting carbs and protein and why I am fasting, to keep blood sugars down and weight at least stable or maybe dropping) then it is easier to resist temptations or the messages my mind and body send me which will interfere with my intent. It's when I forget the goal that I give in to the temptation of the moment. And then if you do it long enough the new way of living and eating becomes habit and not so hard to do. You'll even be able to leave your bedroom and get ice from the kitchen without incident. Keep working at it and be patient with the process. It really does work.

Jean

Hi Rem, have you looked at all of Dr Fung's Patient Resources now that it is available to all? IDM has a number of tips about getting through hunger from a psychological perspective, like Mindful Meditation, and from a physical perspective, maybe a fiber supplement, etc. Many ideas on all those sheets. And if they don't work, understand that it just takes time for your body to get use to fasting. For everyone, whether fat adapted or not. I literally read every IDM blog post in the archives starting at the beginning and watched every video to adjust my thinking about fasting.

********

sharing...Dr Fung Considers this study an excellent resource for insulin effects of various foods. He and Marty Kendall, the author have corresponded and he thinks his work is excellent, and certainly moves things forward in terms of understanding. In other words, We can trust these calculations about insulinogenic effects of certain foods and so I put Brie and Almond Butter back on my shopping list

Instead of buying fattier cheeses, I find if I just add butter to cheddar, it takes less to satisfy me. I find five hundred calories of buttered cheese way more satisfying than five hundred calories of straight cheese.

This insulin index concept seems like it really could be a game changer!