Last week I went on a cruise and people were literally waddling to the buffet for thirds. I find it depressing that perfectly healthy people are eating themselves into a disability. It is embarrassing for the country that we (UK and USA) are seen as fat lazy slobs by other nations.

Those buffets are a sugar and salt fest. Everything you need to override your fullness factor.

Patrick

OK, but if they weren't saving stupid people who ate too much, odds are they'd be saving stupid people who fell asleep smoking, stupid people who left the stove on, stupid people who put matches where a kid could reach them, stupid people who burn candles too close to the curtains, etc.... Almost all fires are preventable so I don't know why he's harping that obesity is.

The fires may have been preventable, but the people being saved may not have had anything to do with it. (rowhouses, etc...)

Again, blaming the weight on gross overeating. True in some cases, likely not all due to metabolic conditions. Like racism-discrimination, 21st century style.

I'm where I'm at, from thin (where I was *barely* able to diet to with extreme restrictions as a teen), consuming an average 1,000-1,400 calories a day for decades - and some of that was with plenty of aerobic activity. If I ate what the recommended caloric levels are for my height for weight maintenance, I have little doubt that I'd be over 250 or far worse. (And would be diabetic.)

Over 250, ok, but 500-600lb? Would you not have taken some action before that point to do SOMETHING? Check yourself into a hospital, do some crazy diet, gastric surgery, what have you? I'm not even saying lose to get to a healthy weight, or find the best healthiest diet for your particular metabolism damage (b/c I am sure that if someone reaches that weight they do have damage, from what or how I can't say, but it is not certainly normal) BUT to take some action besides continuing the same thing that causes them to gain up to 350, 400, 450, etc...?

I guess I am just picking a certain weight at which I lose understanding for the problem, which may be a form of discrimination. I am trying to understand, and if I am wrong would like to be better informed, but I just don't see how one gets to that point (beyond super morbid, etc..) while taking any sort of responsible action.

To do SOMETHING? What I'm saying is that I've gained the last 70 or so pounds ADHERING to a restrictive diet.

Where does "not done something" even come into this? I've done every fricking thing (short of gastric bypass) now. There are others who've reported similar, who I don't believe are apt to be miscounting calories.

I do not believe every person 300 pounds overweight person got that way by stuffing their face with oreos, or even chowing down an extra 200 calories a day for years above what expected weight-maintenance calorie levels are.

Liver transplant patients are among those who can unexpectedly become obese. Some research looks at immunosuppressive drugs. Users of some pharmaceuticals have large otherwise unaccounted for weight gains.

Sure there are people who do gorge themselves indiscriminately. And there are probably plenty whose systems react to modern foods, making them hungrier than anyone should be on what they eat, so those overeat. I cannot imagine, after what I have learned, that there isn't also a subset that is very fat despite doing a LOT to try to counter it, including sticking to a diet. (Look at how long just lowering calories has been recommended, and the whole lowfat thing, and diet shakes made of little but sugar. The conventional wisdom has probably done in plenty of people.)

Right, but you DID something, when you saw that you were gaining on an already restricted diet. You changed what you were doing b/c of the results you were getting.

I'm not saying that everyone reaches that state by stuffing themselves with oreos, but that whatever they WERE doing is obviously WRONG, so why not try something new? I guess one instance that could theoretically lead to a bad situation where someone really is trying to follow their doctors advice, etc, would be if they were strictly following a no/low fat diet and restricting calories until they overeat b/c of the deprivation and over do it on rice cakes or something. I still would think they would at some point throttle the doctor and make some choices for themselves or do research on other diets, that may be underestimating the power of the lowfat brainwashing though. I don't know.

Still I find it difficult to believe that a human being can gain past a certain weight on restricted calories. Not losing, ok, but how does one maintain the sheer mass, and continue gaining to the point of immobility?

I don't have experience at the uppr reaches of poundage ... Others here may. I have been astonished over the years at just how untrue conventional wisdom has proven. The thing is, the doctors don't know. The best ones at best have a passing grasp at the variability of metabolic conditions out there.

I'll agree with you in that much of modern food development is really bad for people. And that yes people should do what they can. That gets confounded by how misguided much dietary conventional wisdom is. And sure it looks like there is a large population consumed by cravings who do really overeat. One issue is that dysregulation that can cause that to happen (insulin...) is probably one of the things that packs on more pounds faster than the old 3500 calories equals a pound.

But the vilification of the obese that is happening sounds to me like hating people with lung cancer without knowing more than that they have it.

I don't mean to vilify the obese by any means, I guess I am doing a bad job explaining my inability to understand. I think their situation is heartbreakingly sad much more than anything else, though I guess that too could be some sort of classicism, or what have you. I just imagine that the very very vast majority are in a horrific situation not necessarily of their own making, but at what arbitrary point can one say they need to change their eating? (I don't mean when can someone else say they have to do X, I mean, how can a person reach a certain weight and not realize radical change must happen to survive?)

For me, seeing 199 on the scale, and KNOWING I would wake up the next day and be 200 lbs was pretty damn traumatic, and led to me "trying to do something" which led to 50 more pounds gained! So I get that obese person X may be "doing something" but when you see it is is not working how can you keep doing it? Maybe what I'm not getting is how someone phisically could really eat very little and (obviously be afraid of faster or worse weight gain so not change that) reach such an enormous weight. I just can't accept that with my current knowledge, but I am totally open to trying to understand.

I think it's WAY more likely/common that people have intolerance to grain and other foods that cause them to feel hungry all the time and be able to eat much more than a normal person. But in this case the onus of responsibility still lies with themselves, as it would with an alcoholic or other type of addict. The difference in food addiction being that they are really only harming themselves, at most inconveniencing fire departments, etc... really really sad.

I don't mean to imply that you are doing the vilifying. Some may try dieting but when it doesn't work they don't realize what else to do and go back to old ways. For me lowcal led sometimes to weight maintenance but sometimes to gain. Raising calories a bit led to more gain. Trying low carb helped but that too was no panacea.

I was a patient of Dr. Atkins and despite great care I didn't lose ... He had a small minority of patients who were resistant too. Even his 1000 calorie fat fast didn't do it for me. We tried several things and he was great to work with but even he knew he didn't have everything figured out but he kept trying. I doubt most people have the metabolic issues I do but having experienced these I realize how little conventional diet math applies.

I am fortunate not to have the food urges that spur some to binge ... It's just that there aren't many changes left to try. I am near zero carb and calorie limited. Presently I am making myself eat 1400 a day to try to keep my metabolism from shutting down further. As a heavy teen I lost 35 lbs on Atkins and then hit a really long stall. I switched to low cal but 1000 stopped producing a loss. Eventually I did lose another 25 down to normL but had to keep cutting calories lower... to 500... to ever get the scale to budge. I was able to raise to 1000 and maintain with more aerobic exercise. This was a lean meats and salads existence, very low fat. But the years following have seen the scale creep up... sometimes quickly... No matter what I have tried. I don't want to drop calories low as I really don't think it is healthy and can shut down metabolism. I became hypothyroid, had some bouts of hair loss etc. If I thought 500 calories would not be reaaally bad for a person I would gladly do that again, no problem. I am still tinkering and have inched the scale down a bit in recent months but in the months prior even with what most would call healthy eating the scale could rise on 1000-1200 calories daily. Yes that sucks! But I am glad I don't have diabetes or other conditions so maybe my years of sticking to a diet have not been for naught.

I did *everything* *. From the time I was about 15 until I was about 25 I was constantly on a diet. Crazy things. Mostly low fat high carb things because it was the 80s and that was The Truth, if you ate fat you were going to die. There wasn't much discussion and there weren't that many options, and there wasn't the internet where you could start investigating wacky fringy ideas. Good information was a lot harder to find.

*except gastric bypass. When I was willing, my insurance didn't cover it. Once I knew more, I've never been willing to face a 1 in 50 chance of dying right there on the table, plus all the follow up issues, plus a good chance of winding up fat again in 5 years. I know too many people who have been there and done that.
So I spent 10 years of my life starving. Driving my body more and more out of wack. Or else binging, because starving is just about the hardest physical and emotional state to maintain.

The longer I dieted, the sicker I got, the fatter I got...Eventually I gave up dieting because it just wasn't working.

I didn't find low carb until the late 90s. Then I had to overcome 20 years of hard core low fat conditioning, the conditioning to believe that doctors know what they're talking about, and all the conditioning about what 'normal' and 'healthy' meant.

Even after I found low carb, its taken me 5 years to learn that I have a bunch of food allergies and metabolic issues, so I've been working my a$$ off and here I am still fat.

I don't think you can have any concept of how difficult to be a completely marginalized part of society and still try to fight this. Every time you fail on a diet, YOU fail. You didn't try hard enough, long enough, low fat enough, or you're obviously just plain lying about what you ate because its not possible to do what you said and still be fat. (Which low carbers will tell you too if you say it isn't working for you.) You're ruining *your* life, you're ruining the lives of the family who loves you, why can't you just try harder?

I'm intelligent, very well educated, have had the privilege of enough grocery money to do what I thought needed to be done, and really great internet access, as well as the real support of those who love me, and I'm driven to figure this out because I want things out of my life I'm not getting. Which I didn't realize until I was out of the carb coma.

I am completely unsurprised that people who don't have the advantages I have don't make it this far. Spending every minute of your whole life swimming up stream is a bitch, and its HARD, and you're never really sure you're going to make it. Its just easier to give up and let the bears eat you.

I know I'm vehement, but I'm not angry so please don't take it that way. You said your questions and confusion were genuine, so I'm trying to offer some genuine insight to how things got that bad and how people might not be able to conquer the issues.

.


Not all....but most. People who are fat tend to eat more. You seem to be an outlier, but not indicative of the obese population as a whole. Perhaps once they gain weight it becomes harder to lose. Perhaps our government really shit the bed with nutritional info. Regardless- most people get fat by eating crap we all know is bad for us. You even said you tried Atkins in your teens, so I assume then you also heard that carbs led to weight gain.

I feel bad for those who are metabolically resistant. But that is not the norm. Most fat people eat crap and too much of it, and do not exercise.

and like bekk said....200...whatever....but literally eating oneself into a wheelchair......i guess it's just something I cannot comprehend. It's a long way from 200 to 500!!!



That's reaching.

By eating crap, true. That "we all know is bad for us"! Come on, we are told to eat the low-fat version of food. These versions replaces good fats with more sugar so that it still tastes something. Since sugar is 50% of the problem and fat is perfectly ok, by avoiding what "we all know is bad for us", we make the problem worst for ourselves.

Patrick