On the other hand, people who care about people who view weight as important (or important enough to lie about) are likely projecting their own size/weight issues.
If someone has a problem with an overweight /once overweight person who lies about their weight, that says to ME that person does not accept the concept of choice and weight. Which, depending on how I feel, that may bother me a whole lot.

There is a relationship between honesty and integrity, but this is only so when the information at hand is important and relevent. For example, it is important to be honest about some things about yourself - telling a partner about being married, or having an STD. To lie about such things is deceptive and shows a lack of integrity.
If the information is trivial and/or not anyones business, would you say it shows a lack of integrity to lie or not disclose? For example, is it dishonest to tell someone that you are taller than you are? Well it's not truthful, but I don't think anyone would much care about someone lying about their height by an inch or two. Height is such a trivial thing and it's not really anyone's business... it doesn't imply a lack of worth or integrity or deception to say you're 5'7 if you're really 5'6.

WHy, then, is there all this fuss about whether or not Ms Alley is honest about her weight?

This is only an issue because we view weight as this uber important thing, and for her to lie about it (ESPECIALLY when she is famous for losing weight) is like the ultimate in deceit. IT's like, lying about who you are (who ARE women besides their bodies, anyway? )

If a woman loses weight she becomes her weight loss. It's so sad but I see this over and over. Speaking personally, my life would be a whole lot easier if people stopped making it seem as if I exist because I am thin.

To lie about it is to have no integrity;
To fail is to have no worth.
To acknowledge its importance is to acknowledge that being overweight makes one worthless.

The real issue here is how we view weight as self definitive,
how people think about us for our weights,
how we think about ourselves for weight.

To my way of thinking if Kirstie Alley had lost X amount of weight in her private capacity, in her private time - then she can say she weighs whatever she wants. When she she is the spokesperson for a weight loss regime...honesty is important. Its all about the integrity of both the spokesman and the product that they are punting. Another more extreme example was when Clinton was pressed on whether he had sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky or not...in his private capacity no one cares, but in his public capacity people "cared" because it was symbolic of his honesty in the office he was presiding over. (an extreme example - I know, but I just want to delineate between certain concepts).

ItstheWoo, according to what you are saying, if one had to extrapolate a bit further, Where does one draw the line on honesty....? Why be honest at all?

women can be incredibly cruel and catty with each other. This topic illustrates it well.

if I look at the weight on my drivers license I know I can be guilty of that too

Women can be alot of things!! That is what makes us SOOO incredibly diverse and the wonderful creatures that we are!!!!!

There you GO, Liddie!

I think its a rare person who has never, EVER fudged about their weight, shoe size, whether or not you've flossed every single day. It's a rare person who has never, EVER said a catty thing or gossiped a bit. I know I'm not perfect, nobody is.

Do I think Kirstie Alley will read this thread and get her feeling hurt? HIGHLY doubtful. Although, Wooo, I do disagree that celebrities aren't "real" people... whether someone happens to project their OWN issues onto the image or not, that celebrity is still a living breathing person underneath.


As I mentioned before, I happen to identify with her struggles, and I'm happy she HAS chosen to go public with it instead of hiding in shame because of her weight and what some consider "failure". You bet I'm projecting my own issues on her, because I want some of that success for myself.

FWIW, aren't we all projecting a bit when we see someone we admire or perhaps dislike, even here on the boards or in our "real" lives? The way I've seen some of my posts taken, I know for a fact what some perceive is certainly NOT who I am by a long shot, and I know a few members outside this thread who've set themselves up as paragons of virtue taking every chance to hand out "tough love"...but they are nowhere to be seen now that things are hard for THEM. Disappearing is easier than owning up...and I'm just glad people like Kirstie didn't just go away.

If I was a little more special and famous, I'd have a thread somewhere in the universe poking fun of my fat ass. I guess I'll have to work on that.

Really - honestly, who the heck cares! Every woman, at one time or another has lied about their weight to someone - I know I have...she may not have been entirely honest about it, but heck, she is obviously losing a great deal, she looks fabulous, and that is honest.

I don't see how her being the spokesperson of Jenny Craig matters in her being honest about how fat she was at her heaviest. Celebrities rarely use the products they endorse. I don't think Jessica Simpson's beautiful skin depends on proactive solution, either.
Besides , even if we did assume she has an obligation to be truthful about her weight due to JC spokeswoman... it really can only be considered relevant that she remain truthful about how she lost, and how much she lost. As far as I know Kirstie has not had GBS or only lost like 20 pounds (when advertising 70). She DID do a regular diet, and she DID lose 70 lbs or close to it.

...So if she chooses not to say she once weighed 255, and now weighs 175 (or whatever the number is), I don't see how this shows a deal breaking lack of integrity or character.

As for Clinton... many people *do* think it is and was crazy how people made such a big deal about him lying about his affair (it's only his business after all). But, in Clinton's case, as the President of the United States. Whenever he lies, even if it is something *ridiculously trivial* like that, it makes the people nervous. It's understandable; he has a lot of responsibility to us, so he is expected to be honest and of good integrity. How adamantly he lied and continued to lie about it made everyone a little antsy for good reason.

Kirstie Alley is not the president. She has no responsibility to us.

As to "where we draw the line"... well, this is an ethical dilemma. Few people would consider ANY lie indicative of a lack of integrity. We lie and do not disclose things all the time; we are not open books and it is our right to remain private about things. But sometimes, we have to be honest and open, to be fair to other people. The question is answered by determining when information belongs to others, and not just to yourself; when it belongs to others as well, that is when it is wrong to lie or not disclose the truth. There is no formula to determine when it is or isn't okay; there are many factors to consider.

That said, I think it is pretty obvious this is NOT one of those times where it is important to be totally honest. I think a person only thinks that if they have an abnormally extreme view of weight as important.

Dang. If there's a spare soapbox I can use for a minute...

Would we be having the same public speculation if John Goodman said he's 300lbs right now, and a year later claims to be 225lbs whilst wearing a Speedo on Oprah?

YESSSSS. But that wouldn't diminish the fact that the man dropped significant tonnage.

Speculating on Alley's weight is not a personal attack on her accomplishments. Whatever people are transferring to or taking away from this thread, I wish everyone a weekend full of humor and perspective. And may all of us strike a pose in a red bikini soon - even if it's just in the dressing room mirror.

[ And may all of us strike a pose in a red bikini soon - even if it's just in the dressing room mirror.[/QUOTE]


When I get into a bikini it's gonna be SO BRIGHT that even someone in an airplane can see it!!!! Dang I'll be looking good. Thanks you have a great weekend also!

Nobody freak out, but I saw this on People's website.

A year ago, when Kirstie Alley first suggested appearing on Oprah in a bikini, the actress was already more than halfway to her now 75-lb. weight loss, PEOPLE reports in its latest issue.

The prospect of commemorating her target weight ("You're going to see a girl who's worked on herself!" she once promised) on the Nov. 6 episode of Oprah was powerful motivation: "Yeah!" she told the talk-show host with a grin. Her transformation, accomplished over two years with diet and exercise, "is inspiring," says actress pal Kathy Najimy. "She's a role model for women everywhere."

Yet Alley wasn't entirely happy with her reveal on the show. "I had practiced my walk – I was going to do this wow-hot-model walk," she says. "But I was so hysterical, I ended up doing the dorky-girl-from-Kansas walk. It didn't work out so well!"

Those in the studio would disagree. As soon as the crowd caught sight of Alley (who strutted to the Commodores' tune "Brick House"), they erupted in cheers and applause. "Everyone was going crazy," says Laura Stuller, one of Alley's Jenny Craig consultants. "I was just crying, standing up with everyone else, absolutely thrilled to see her accomplish her goals."

Getting there wasn't so easy: Bikini shopping proved quite the nightmare. "If you were a store selling bathing suits, wouldn't you use, like, pink lights and skinny mirrors?" says Alley. Fed up with what she saw on a shopping trip with Najimy and another actress pal, Leah Remini, Alley asked designer Jeffrey Kurland to create a custom bikini for her.

Her criteria? "I said I liked little bottoms and I wanted the top to be sort of Dolce [& Gabbana] looking." Kurland did three fittings, taking in the bottom a couple of times "because my body looks better in less," says Alley. Seeing herself at the final fitting three days before the Nov. 1 Oprah taping allayed her fears. "I was really excited," she says, "because I thought, 'I look okay to me!'"

And perfection isn't her goal. "Never. Never. Never. Never. Never," she says when asked if she's hoping to reach her Cheers weight of 120 lbs. "I never maintained 120 without doing something wacky, and I don't want that life anymore." And stomach stapling or lipo was never an option. "I don't advocate cutting out intestines and pinching things off and getting things sucked out," she says. "I would rather take an extra six months or a year and just not have to go that route."

She is currently maintaining her weight by eating 1,500 calories a day, most often a combination of one Jenny Craig meal, plus favorites like grilled fish, asparagus and salad with vinaigrette. Her usual workout includes walking on the treadmill and dancing, but to prep for her big Oprah moment – as well as a series of Jenny Craig ads that will feature her in a bikini – she added tough routines of everything from kickboxing to Pilates four times a week with trainer Carmen Demsky.

It's her stick-to-it attitude that Alley herself is most proud of. "I don't think of myself as a role model for weight loss as much as a role model for tenacity," she says. "I like being a role model so women know that they can change anything they want to change – any time."

*Moderator Note*

Ahem! For those who are not aware, political debate is no longer acceptable here, as per this post: http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=218284

Thank you for your co-operation.

Rosebud