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  #1   ^
Old Mon, Nov-02-09, 10:15
costello22's Avatar
costello22 costello22 is offline
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Default Non-thyroid reasons from low basal body temperature?

Hi all:

I've been following awriter's posts about high rT3 and started to wonder if I might have the same problem. My TSH, T3, and T4 always test in the mid to high normal range. (Don't have my numbers with me.) Never had rT3 tested.

Anyway I started reading about hypothyroid problems and decided to take my temperature first thing in the morning. It was 97.2 this morning and 97 yesterday morning.

[Funny thing: I actually went out and bought a new thermometer for this experiment. My old digital thermometer always has my temp in the 97's, so I've always assumed it didn't work right. Well, the new thermometer agrees with the old one. ]

I don't have any of the other symptoms of hypothyroidism. (Other than being fat and somewhat fatigued.) My skin isn't dry. My hair isn't falling out. I'm not cold all the time - in fact I have my thermostat set below 60 degrees right now and yesterday I walked out of the shower naked and wet and into my cold house and I was fine.

Are there other reasons for having a low body temperature? Can this be a problem in itself? Problems with chemical reactions in the body or whatever because the temperature is too low?

Thanks for any help, Rebecca

Last edited by costello22 : Mon, Nov-02-09 at 12:25.
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  #2   ^
Old Mon, Nov-02-09, 11:08
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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97.2 isn't that bad. Your temperature will increase at least 1 degree during the day, depending how active you are. Also, if you're in the first two weeks of your cycle your temperature will be about 1/2 degree lower than the second half. Even malnutrition and starvation can cause your body temperature to be low, but it's probably because the body down regulates the thyroid so you'll live longer.

Last edited by Nancy LC : Mon, Nov-02-09 at 11:13.
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, Nov-03-09, 10:45
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costello22 costello22 is offline
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Thanks, Nancy. I think I'll wait for my regular physical exam time - April or May - and add rT3 to the list of things I'd like to have checked.
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  #4   ^
Old Thu, Nov-05-09, 06:52
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galatia galatia is offline
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I was wondering the same thing! I also took my temp last night and this morning and it was the same both times. 97.6. I have friends with thyroid problems, and I've read things about staying too lowcarb for very long could cause thyroid problems, so I was going to make sure my temperature was good, and then...it wasn't.
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  #5   ^
Old Thu, Nov-05-09, 08:47
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costello22 costello22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galatia
I was wondering the same thing! I also took my temp last night and this morning and it was the same both times. 97.6. I have friends with thyroid problems, and I've read things about staying too lowcarb for very long could cause thyroid problems, so I was going to make sure my temperature was good, and then...it wasn't.


Hi galatia: Same here. In my case, though, I know my temp has been in the 97's for years. I had assumed my old thermometer was just wrong, but the new one agrees. And then I broke the new one and bought another new one and that agrees too.

My temperature - throughout the day - runs from about 96.5 to 97.6.

I did some more reading and it seems what's normal varies from person to person - from the 95's up to the 99's. Obese people tend to have a lower temp, though.

My temperature was low back when I weighed 160 - years before I started low carbing - so low carb didn't cause it in my case. Maybe that was an early warning that I tended toward obesity and if I'd started low carb back then I never would have gotten so big. So maybe it's good you started low-carbing at a lower weight.

Anyway, it occurred to me that if my "normal" temp is lower than average, my "fever" temp might be lower as well. Maybe something keep in mind with H1N1 going around?
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  #6   ^
Old Thu, Nov-05-09, 10:44
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awriter awriter is offline
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Default It's not the Basal that counts, it's the daytime temps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by costello22
I've been following awriter's posts about high rT3 and started to wonder if I might have the same problem. My TSH, T3, and T4 always test in the mid to high normal range. (Don't have my numbers with me.) Never had rT3 tested.

Rebecca, without the numbers and especially without the rT3, you just can't tell.

Quote:
take my temperature first thing in the morning. It was 97.2 this morning and 97 yesterday morning.

That isn't how you test. You need to take your temp 3 hours after waking. Then 3 hours after that. Then 3 hours after that. Do this for at least 3 days running.

1: Log the numbers
2: Average them
3: See if the individual numbers deviate throughout the day by more than .2

If the average isn't at least 98.4 you have a problem. If the deviation is by more than .2 you may well have an adrenal problem.

You can indeed have a peripheral thyroid hormonal problem (T3/rT3) without having any thyroid GLAND (T4) problem, and you can have that problem with very few symptoms. If you have a temp. problem, that's one. If you have trouble losing weight, that's two. If you have TC above 200, that's three. Fatigue is four.

And all you need is one of those to have a problem that needs to be corrected by thyroid hormone therapy.

To see a good list of all symptoms, go to:

http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/cond/C20313.html

Lisa
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  #7   ^
Old Thu, Nov-05-09, 11:56
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costello22 costello22 is offline
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Thanks, Lisa. I was hoping you'd respond.

Quote:
Originally Posted by awriter
That isn't how you test. You need to take your temp 3 hours after waking. ...


I'll do that. I can tell you right now, though, that it will be well below 98.4. I've spent the last couple of days taking my temp periodically, and it's almost always in the 97's and 96's.

Quote:
If the deviation is by more than .2 you may well have an adrenal problem.


I'm sure I have an adrenal problem. When my compounding pharmacist was trying to help me get my hormones right in May, he asked for a cortisol test due to the incredibly high stress in my life. He put me on an OTC adrenal support - in addition to other hormones.

Quote:
To see a good list of all symptoms, go to:

http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/cond/C20313.html

Lisa


Thanks for the link. I see "low motivation" is one of the symptoms. I've been suffering terribly for the last couple of years from what I've come to call "lack of motivation." It was very hard for me to define, and I was afraid to mention it to my doctor. I figured she'd just call it "depression" and put me on an anti-depressant. I should have known Dr. Vernon better. She immediately said it was hormonal. Unfortunately nothing has helped so far. I thought testosterone was the answer - but no.

Interestingly I have incredibly high DHEA which other hormones are made from.

Anyway this is something else to look in to. I think the motivation issue is even more distressing than the weight issue (and that's pretty darned distressing!). If I could fix both at one go, I'd be thrilled.
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  #8   ^
Old Thu, Nov-05-09, 22:03
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awriter awriter is offline
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Plan: Kwasniewski Ratios
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Quote:
Originally Posted by costello22
I've spent the last couple of days taking my temp periodically, and it's almost always in the 97's and 96's.

Please post the 3 days worth here if you can. If your mid-day temps are really that low, you definitely have a problem. Given the lack of motivation as well as the low temps, you most likely have Wilson's Temperature Syndrome, as well as an adrenal problem. For more info on WTS, go to: http://www.wilsonssyndrome.com -- I have a feeling when you start reading, lots of light bulbs will go off!

Quote:
I'm sure I have an adrenal problem. When my compounding pharmacist was trying to help me get my hormones right in May, he asked for a cortisol test due to the incredibly high stress in my life. He put me on an OTC adrenal support - in addition to other hormones.

Since it sounds like you have a good doctor, here are the tests she needs to order for you:

-- Ferritin
-- T4, Free T4
-- T3, Free T3
-- Reverse T3
-- B 12
-- Vit. D
-- SALIVA Cortisol (which will be done over the course of an entire day)
-- 24 hour iodine load test
-- Antibody test to rule out Hashi's

If, as is likely, you have a rT3 problem you already know from reading my other posts that you will need a course of Cytomel, given in a specific way. Info about that is on the WTS site as well.

However, if your Ferritin level is lower than 70 you will need to bring it up to 70 (or higher; between 70-90 is optimal). If you have high cortisol, you will need to treat it with prescription meds -- all before taking T3 -- otherwise, your body will NOT be able to tolerate it and you'll have very bad side effects.

Once the Ferritin and Cortisol levels are good, you'll be good to go.

Quote:
Ithink the motivation issue is even more distressing than the weight issue (and that's pretty darned distressing!). If I could fix both at one go, I'd be thrilled.


If it is rT3, then your wish has a good chance of coming true. Please post your lab results here when you can.

Lisa
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  #9   ^
Old Fri, Nov-06-09, 08:50
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costello22 costello22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awriter
Please post the 3 days worth here if you can.


Will do. I've already taken the first one and guess what? It was completely normal. I got up at 4:30 this morning and took my temp at 7:30. 98.5!

Quote:
Since it sounds like you have a good doctor, here are the tests she needs to order for you:


I'll ask her to get all of these for me - assuming my temps are as low as I suspected. If they're all as good as the first one today... Well, I'm stumped.

Quote:
Please post your lab results here when you can.


I'll do that.

I started a new routine two days ago, and I wonder if it's effected my temperature. If so, I'm utterly delighted.

I remembered last night where I got the idea that too low of a body temp might effect enzymatic reactions in the body. It was Taubes, GCBC, pp. 142-3:

"All homeostatic systems ... must be amazingly interdependent to keep the body functioning properly. Maintaining a constant body temperature, for example, is critical because biochemical reactions are temperature-sensitive -- they will proceed faster in hotter temperatures and slower in colder ones. But not all biochemical reactions are equally sensitive, so their rates of reaction will not change equally with changes in temperature. A biological system like ours that runs ideally at 98.6 degrees F can spin out of control when this temperature changes and all the myriad biochemcial reactions on which it depends now proceed at different rates. ..."
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  #10   ^
Old Fri, Nov-06-09, 09:07
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awriter awriter is offline
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Plan: Kwasniewski Ratios
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Quote:
Originally Posted by costello22
Will do. I've already taken the first one and guess what? It was completely normal. I got up at 4:30 this morning and took my temp at 7:30. 98.5!

That's great! Don't know if this was an influence or not, but I forgot to mention that you need to wait 30 minutes after eating, drinking, or exercise to take it. So if you ate at 7:15, say, you'd wait till 7:45 (it needs to be at least 3 hours, but can be longer) to take it, and then 3 hours after that.

Quote:
I started a new routine two days ago, and I wonder if it's effected my temperature. If so, I'm utterly delighted.

What kind of 'routine'? Exercise? Food? Both? Thanks for the GCBC quote! I forget sometimes how much Taubes seemed to touch on everything.

Lisa
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  #11   ^
Old Fri, Nov-06-09, 09:21
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costello22 costello22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awriter
That's great! Don't know if this was an influence or not, but I forgot to mention that you need to wait 30 minutes after eating, drinking, or exercise to take it.


Yep, I knew that one. I hadn't exercised or eaten within the previous 30 minutes.

Quote:
What kind of 'routine'? Exercise? Food? Both?


Food. The doctor made me so mad the other day. Not my regular doc. Dr. Vernon was out, so I saw her partner. I had decided to quit "trying." Tired of focusing on my weight and food and stuff. So I was just going to maintain at this weight for a while longer and focus on -- well, the rest of my life!

So I go to my regular appointment ready to tell Mary that, but she's not there! Instead it's this Dr. Clark whom I'm never met before. So I tell him. And he suggests these protein drinks - Pure Protein.

I have to admit I wasn't very friendly with the man. I'd made up my mind not to try anything else for a while because nothing works. I'm stuck here around 208.

But he insisted on telling me about it. And I got to thinking it was kind of like the Eades' 6 week cure - protein shakes for breakfast and lunch and then a low carb dinner. So I decide, what the hell, give it a try. The worst thing that can happen is it won't work.

So starting on Wednesday I've had more protein and less fat in my diet.

Quote:
Thanks for the GCBC quote! I forget sometimes how much Taubes seemed to touch on everything.


He's fantastic, isn't he?
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