Hello all,

34 year old male. I've been doing LC off and on since 2001. Before that, I suffered from light headedness, foggy thinking, daily headaches, low energy, even while working out consistently. When I first tried LC, I was amazed at how good I felt, and lost about 25 lbs (from 200 to 175).

However, after about a year, I started feeling strange mentally (kinda a low grade depression), and decided to blow it one night with an all you can eat fried fish platter. Within an hour I felt amazing again, tons of energy, mood improved tremendously. People began telling me, you NEED carbs, forget LC, its all bogus. So after a few weeks eating 'regular' food again and feeling great, I got my headaches back, fuzzy thinking, now energy, abdominal fat going back up etc. Felt bad again.

Over the next few years, I bounced back and forth between normal eating and LC, trying to find that balance. Finally came up with eating nothing but protein in the mornings, and finally introducing mostly low glycemic carbs in the evenings. This seemed to be working, though I did put weight back on and got back up to 200 lbs.

I recently had some blood work done, and my HDL was 43 and LDL was 206. My doctor freaked! However, triglycerides seemed to be within range, and so did blood sugar, and blood pressure. My family doc keeps stating I need to take statins ASAP. I DO NOT want to take statins!

The other day, I had my eyes checked as I am borderline needing glasses, and the opthamologist said he could now see cholesterol deposits in my eyes! He said he could not see that 2 years ago.

I'd like to do something about this NOW.

But I am now not sure what I should start doing...

Sorry for the long post, but any advice would be highly appreciated.

Thanks,
Jeff

Hi Jeff,

There are some topics I'm going to stay away from here especially since this is just over the internet and not face to face. But with regards to LC failing you after a year I'd have to say that if it was ok for one year what else may have been introduced into your life at the time things took a turn for the worse? If LC was not going to come through for you I would think you would have known sooner than a year. Also, while on LC just how low did you go and what were your sources of carbs that you did have?

Joe

Hi Joe, thanks for your reply.

It was nearly a year that I cut out almost all carbs. The carbs I did eat were mainly from vegetables, and fruits, mainly apples. All sugars, breads, etc were strictly out! I think that with a combination off lower carbs and weightlifting, I could have over-done it. However, I was the most ripped I had ever been in my life. All my clothes were falling off of me.

I also remember reading a long while back that some (but not all) low carbers had experienced a strange low level depression, possibly due to lowered serotonin levels in the brain due to a prolonged low carbohydrate diet. They had cited a weblink about tests done to where higher glycemic grains were given and it upped the serotonin in the brain significantly within hours. It looked very legitimate, though I am unsure if it really was. I can't remember but I believe it was a post in a forum (possibly this one) a few years back that had this link to these studies.

Anyway, I was quite convinced of this after I ate that plate of fried foods, as within an hour or so, I was feeling like a million bucks.

Over time, I pretty much took the "middle of the road" method, and have done OK, but my blood profile has not. When people ask me what diet I am on I tell them a "controlled carb" diet. With this diet, I'd eat nothing but protein in the mornings (eggs/bacon/sausage/ham/chicken/turkey) and would slowly increase carbs as the day went on, but within reason. This definitely worked.

Anyway, I am now concerned about my cholesterol numbers, especially since my eye doc saw it in my eyes!

First, you choose to take or not take any medication or treatment you docotor may recomend. Second, statins have never been proven to prevent heart disease or heart attack. Third, cholesterol is not dangerous. If your HDL was atad higher (exercise and saturated fat) your numbers would be perfect.

I don't know about cholesterol deposits in the eyes, but I do have a sister that has had them for years, since her early 30's and statins never changed them. I also had an area on my face that my doc said was because of hich cholesterol, except it poped up when I was on lipitor and my total was under 150, and it went away when I stopped taking the statin and my cholesterol went up.

Maybe its best you have scans to look for atherosclerosis, especially as there are fatty deposits in your eyes. My mother had cholesterol numbers similar to yours, she also had these deposits in her eyes and one of her arteries were almost completely blocked at 42 years old.

In the meantime, eat lots of foods with high antioxidants, like blueberries, Red Apple skin, Onions, Garlic, walnuts.

Take fish oil if you're not already.

I think you're foolish if you start being ignorant on this, and STATINS do reduce the risk of death or serious heart attack, but you can resolve this problem with decreasing your calories, increase fish oil, and increase low carb vegetables. See this http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/101/17/6659

Take my advice or not, I believe I can speak on the issue because all my family has high cholesterol except me, my total cholesterol is (109mg/dl) with almost 0 risk of heart disease.

I'm going to focus on your mood issue and leave the cholesterol conversation to others more qualified. I lift weights as well and I'm wondering just how ripped you were and for how long? Remember that those we see on TV commercials and magazine ads cycle their condition and do photo/video shoots at certain times of the year. They don't look that ripped for 12 months because some of them you see are at fat levels too low to maintain good health. Also, I've read of many weightlifting/fitness types who are in great condition yet they allow themselves a sort of cheat day (normally at the end of the week) and it does not tamper with their condition. I haven't been in the shape I was for many years now but as I'm getting close now I can see how the feeling of thinning down can be addictive. I have 14 lbs. to go to my set goal now and I wonder how I'll feel about myself at that time or will I want more? Weight lifting is taxing as I'm sure you know and overtraining can lead to low moods and it sneaks up on you without you knowing it. Combined with a diet that may have been just a touch too low on the carb side and that can make things worse. Good luck.

Joe

I know a lot of people who get brain fog from eating specific foods. For me it is wheat (anything containing gluten) or dairy. There's pretty good evidence now that people who are sensitive to gluten can actually suffer brain abnormalities because of it. (See Gluten File (neurological manifestations) for more info)

Anyway, my suggestion is a diet that is naturally lower in carbs than a typical american diet. I think you might really feel good on the Paleo diet.

"Second, statins have never been proven to prevent heart disease or heart attack. Third, cholesterol is not dangerous."
second: Several studies have shown statins
preventing heart problems but not because
of cholesterol reduction.Low mg statins
or 600 mg red yeast rice per day reduce inflamation.source: www.spacedoc.net
third:thoroughly irresponsible statement to
make to someone! Admittedly,the cholesterol
theories and countertheories are controversial.

Don't spread lies saying statins don't work

Statins Reduce Risk of Stroke, MI in Heart Patients

London, Oct 24: New research suggests that statins can significantly reduce the incidence of stroke, myocardial infarction (MI), or all-cause death in patients with severe carotid arterial disease not revascularized. The study, presented at CHEST 2006 showed that statins notably reduced such incidences in these nonrevascularized patients with chronic high cholesterol, as well.

“Statins reduce the LDL, or bad cholesterol and increase HDL, or good cholesterol,” said lead author Gautham Ravipati, MD, New York Medical College, Valhalla, NY. “Our study focuses on statin use in patients with severe, carotid artery disease, and our data favor the use of statins in order to reduce the incidence of stroke, MI, and all-cause mortality in this population.”

From January 2001 to December 2005, Dr. Ravipati and his colleagues analyzed the charts of 449 patients (59 percent men) with carotid arterial disease, of which 298 were treated with statins and 151 were not. Patient follow-up occurred within a mean of 26 months for the statin groups and 21 months for the control group. Researchers identified high cholesterol, in 100 percent of patients treated with statins and in 96 percent of those treated without. Patients showed no significant differences in age, gender, hypertension, diabetes, smoking, stroke, or MI. However, all patients had experienced a narrowing of one or two carotid arteries, and none of the patients had been revascularized.

Results revealed that the incidence of stroke, MI, or death in patients treated with statins was 15 percent, compared with a significantly higher 68 percent, in patients who were not treated with statins. Researchers also found that statins were effective in both diabetics and in nondiabetics with severe carotid arterial d disease.

“Research like this, involving these types of incidences on these types of patients, has not previously been published, “ Dr. Ravipati said. “And what it supports is that all patients with carotid arterial disease and hypercholesterolemia should be treated with statins, unless there is an absolute contradiction.”

It's in people that've already had a stroke or MI.

Well is there ANY way to lower cholesterol naturally? There HAS to be. I was getting my hopes up about policosanol until I read the results were bogus.

I've read on other forums how statins have caused worse problems than they were trying to fix.

I've read that your body uses saturated fats to create LDL, so I've considered cutting this out as much as possible, but then there goes 90% of the protein.

And I just don't feel right taking whey, egg, or soy protein powders. I get foggy headed.

So I guess my options are: dont eat a thing, LOL.

I'm gonna figure this out! I'd love to get my HDL up high enough to where it starts eating away at the plaques I most likely have now. Heart disease has been my fear since my early 20's, and now it looks like I'm into the full progression of it. My grandparents all died of heart disease related conditions, though in their 80s. Both of my parents are still alive and in their early 60's, though they are on statins due to horrible cholesterol numbers.

Hi Joe,

Well I had gotten rid of more fat on my body than I ever had. I had tried everything, and the low-carb diet worked wonders for this. My current diet is quite stable, and I feel really good on it, but my cholesterol numbers don't look so good as a result. I've also put my abdominal fat back on, but in a strange way. I have the fat, but also a six pack too! Imagine a six pack waist with a strange tube of abdominal fat. Very strange, and I think its a combination of genetics and being insulin resistant to a point.

Since you lift weights as well, you can see my profile over at the bodybuilding.com forums if you like (I am jeffro72 over there). There is some great information on that site too, though more designed for performance nutrition and exercise. I think this forum is better for getting down to business with low carb and on cholesterol issues.

Policosanol might work for some people.
NYNIKKI said she knows several people who have been
helped by policosanol.I tried policosanol a long time
ago and I gave up after not seeing results in 6 weeks.
If you want to lower your cholesterol,please bear in
mind that some cholesterol in your blood is caused by
dietary cholesterol and some is made by your body.
My cholesterol used to be 285.I got it down to 225 by
using 1800 mg of beta sitosterol(a plant sterol)a day.
Beta sitosterol addresses dietary cholesterol(like
policosanol).I still wanted to get my cholesterol lower.
I had to do this by decreasing the cholesterol that my
body was making.The only 2 ways to do this are statins
or red yeast rice.I chose 1200 mg a day of red yeast rice.
Bear in mind that red yeast rice is somewhat equivalent
to a statin but red yeast rice works better,is cheaper and
is,IMHO,not harmful.I have found plenty of claims that
people were harmed by statins but I have yet to find
anyone who was harmed by red yeast rice.
another point: Always try to use a nutritional supplement
with the ConsumerLabs seal of approval.ConsumerLabs
certifies the contents of a nutritional supplement.
Bye for now
Eddie

Yes I just posted how above, you never read it? its just as and even more powerful than statins, it also doesn't actually cost you anything either, and it has plenty of data to support it. You might also want to look at IF if that is to difficult for you.

Let me end that right now! I have not had cholesterol problems but a friend has. A coworker of his was using red rice yeast so my friend did it for a year. He stopped when the coworker got called, AT WORK, by his doctor. The recent blood test the coworker had had came back with some set of numbers way off. The Doc said to IMMEDIATELY stop the red rice yeast!

So my friend did also. Then told me that several weeks, maybe even two months later, he was walking up three flights of stairs. Just as he was a few steps from the top, his legs gave out. BUT that was happening before after just one floor and he had to stop to rest at each floor. He is now scared that the red rice yeast (a natural statin) may have done OTHER damage that he will not recover so quickly from - his heart especially.

It is well known that statins lower coenzyme Q in the body. Coenzyme Q is one of the enzymes in the electron transport of the cell that generates the energy that the cell needs to live. Go here to read about it.

Here is an interesting web page that has the following chart in it.
CoQ10 Concentrations
Organ - mcg CoQ10/gram
Heart - 114
Kidney - 66.5
Liver - 55
Muscle - 40
Spleen - 24.6
Brain - 13.4
Intestine - 11.5
Lung - 7.9
So it is the heart (twice the amount of the next highest!) that will be most affected by the inhibition of CoQ - not something I think is a good thing!

The ridiculous thing about this is that NO valid studies have shown that cholesterol CAUSES cardio vascular disease. The ones that supposedly do are carefully designed to show what the researcher wants it to show, ie hypercholestroleima is the cause of CVD. And when their data shows the opposite, they massage the statistics until it gives the result they want. Read what Dr. Mike Eades says about this research.
Credibilty lacking in the scientific literature
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/...fic_jour_1.html

Reporting bias and medical studies
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/...rting_bias.html

The lipid hypothesis
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/...ipid_hypot.html

Scientific journal credibility
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/...tific_jour.html

Most scientific articles are false
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/...scientific.html

Baboon business - Anatomy of a Scientific Article
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/...n_business.html

Statistical humbug
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/...stics_is_n.html


More saturated fat nonsense
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/...nonsense_a.html

And here are some web references on Cholesterol.

http://www.news.uiuc.edu/scitips/00/03cholestip.html
Cholesterol levels not necessarily indicative of cardiac health.
--They conclude that plasma cholesterol levels should not be relied on as a measure for potential heart disease. Their findings appear in two studies in the March issue of the journal Atherosclerosis.

Of the 506 men who had a bypass, only 71 (14 percent) had plasma cholesterol levels above 240; 50 percent had levels below 200. Thirty-two percent of the 244 women who had bypass surgery had levels above 240; 34 percent were below 20.

Here is Pubmed citation;
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...l=pubmed_docsum
The relationship of oxidized lipids to coronary artery stenosis.
--Differences in the mean plasma cholesterol concentration for different levels in the degree of stenosis were not significant, indicating that LPX provided consistent data on the severity of stenosis while the plasma cholesterol concentration did not.

Related Article:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...l=pubmed_docsum
An excess concentration of oxysterols in the plasma is cytotoxic to cultured endothelial cells.
To test if there is an excess concentration of oxysterols in the plasma of the patients with cardiovascular disease, we analyzed the oxysterol content in the plasma from 105 cardiac catheterized patients with angina and 80+/-8% stenosis in their coronary arteries. The result showed that the plasma contained a significantly higher concentration of oxysterols than did plasma from 105 age- and sex-matched, non-catheterized and angina-free controls (P<0.05).

Here is a good summary about lipids.
http://biology.clc.uc.edu/courses/bio104/lipids.htm
(near end)
Cholesterol is not a “bad guy!” Our bodies make about 2 g of cholesterol per day, and that makes up about 85% of blood cholesterol, while only about 15% comes from dietary sources.

Many people have hear the claims that egg yolk contains too much cholesterol, thus should not be eaten. An interesting study was done at Purdue University a number of years ago to test this. Men in one group each ate an egg a day, while men in another group were not allowed to eat eggs. Each of these groups was further subdivided such that half the men got “lots” of exercise while the other half were “couch potatoes.” The results of this experiment showed no significant difference in blood cholesterol levels between egg-eaters and non-egg-eaters while there was a very significant difference between the men who got exercise and those who didn’t.