I don't know what to do. I just talked to my Dr. She was in her car on her cell so she didn't have all my numbers but she did tell me my LDL is 217, and my total cholesterol is over 400!!! She is mailing me my test results so I don't know what my HDL or Trigs are yet. She wants me to try diet to lower my LDL before she puts me on statins. I've been doing Atkins since March 20, 2005. A year ago my total chol was 301, my Trigs were 70 and I don't remember my HDL and LDL but my Dr. said the LDL was borderline, so this is a significant increase. I don't want to take statins but my LDL is off the charts. How do I lower these numbers? My Dr. wants me to go to classes to learn what to eat, but I know what they're going to tell me. BTW, I'm pretty sure my cholesterol levels are heritary, when I was in my 20s my total was over 200.

If you only just started Atkins on March 20th, the full results of this WOE might not be showing in your bloodtests yet. I waited 4 months to have my tests done (I just posted yesterday with my results in this forum) for exactly that reason.

I've read that a short-term LDL spike is common when starting Atkins. I believe Dr. A writes about it in the DANDR book (or maybe it was on Atkins.com?), I don't have my copy with me now, but it in the section where he talks about having the bloodwork done prior to starting and then later on.

If you've read the book and believe that Atkins is good for your heart and cholesterol (I do!), then talk to your doctor and see if you can continue on Atkins and have another test in 2 or 3 months and then take it from there.

Good luck!

Thanks, yeah, I think that's what I'm going to do. I've been getting my thyroid tested and she threw in the chol test. because it's been over a year since my last one. She also did my sugars but I haven't got my results yet - they should be good. I didn't tell her I was doing Atkins though, I wanted more info so I can defend my WOL.

Yeah, I think that you are doing well by following Brpssm's advice. Many low carbers experience a jump in cholesterol numbers the first few weeks after beginning this wao. They also experience a notable drop in number about 6 months after beginning this. I am glad that you didn't mention Atkins to this doctor. Although she may be one of the well informed, it may have been a mistake. I noticed that you were in for a thyroid test. How is your thyroid? I am asking because it can also affect your cholesterol levels.

I was told, by my DR (my cholestral is slightly high) come back in 6mths(after atkins) to recheck my cholestral, he said it takes that long to get a true reading and when on the Atkins it will go up first, then down.

JudyAnn

You may want to read some different opinions; I think that the choleserol theory is all BS. I don't let anybodybody check mine even--just takes up my time and money. Several of my friends, who do get theirs checked on a yearly basis, have high cholesterol, but their veins are clear. Their doctors are at a loss trying to explain to them why they need a statin drug. Anyway, here are some links if you are interested. Good luck

www.thincs.org
www.StatinAlert.org
www.theomnivore.com

JudyAnn,

You might want to add some supplements to your routine. There are many out there that will help to lower your cholesterol in a more natural way than the statins will. It has been my first hand experiance as well as MHO that statins do more harm than good and should be avoided at all costs. Try adding some red yeast rice, garlic(raw is best but pill form will work too), omega-3 fish oil, and niacin just to name a few. If you do end up having to go on statins be sure to take CoQ10 while doing so. Statin drugs depelete the bodys supply of this and can leave you with muscle damage as a result (first hand experiance with this). Do a search on this site on other herbs/supplements that you can add to your routine to help with lowering your cholesterol.

Thanks for all the advice. I haven't received all my numbers yet, but I looked at the numbers from last year:
2/04
Total 305
LDL 201
HDL 89
Trig. 70
Nothing was said to me then about statins. Also, I could have sworn my Dr. said the total was over 400, but she was in her car on her cell and didn't have the numbers with her. If my total is that high then my HDL must have gone up quite a bit, do you think? She also didn't mention my trigs so I am assuming they are in the normal range. I'm hoping my test results are in the mail today, she said she mailed them Mon. and usually it only take a day or two to show up.

Black57, I think I will wait for the next test results and if they have not improved enough I will tell her I'm on Atkins and see if we can wait a few months and retest again. She seems to be pretty open-minded, and of course, she can't force me to take statins My thyroid numbers are:
TSH .006
FT4 1.5
Total T3 90
My Dr. put me on Cytomel to get the T3 number up. She is ignoring the TSH, and my T4 is fine.

I always thought cholesterol plaques your artheries, not veins. BUt just curious, how do they know they are clear?

Hi Dina
I think many of us lay people call anything with blood in it a vein-whatever. It is my understanding from my friends that there are several different tests to check for plaque, one involving die, and another that is either sonic or magnetic, or maybe both. I should have listened better, but frankly, I really wasn't interested. From what I read, and from my own, my older brothers' experiences (negative), and my friends' experiences (positive), I think we should all be doing anything and everything to control our insulin. The people that I see who do are healthy, energetic,and have their wits about them. The ones I see who don't, are in pretty sorry shape and the meds they take IMHO seem to hasten their down hill slide. It's very dishearting to see this in my older brothers, but they are both married to nurses who were trained in the low fat, pill popping society in which we live.
I'm sure that there are others on the forum that can explain the plaque checking process to us; I'm kind of currious now myself.

What do the thyroid numbers mean?

I got my full results, I haven't had time to post them, my Mom was in the hospital again, anyway she home now and doing better.

2/04
total 305
hdl 89
ldl 201
trg 77
trg/hdl ratio .87

5/05
Total 304
Hdl 76
Ldl 214
Trg 70
hdl/trg Ratio .92

I don't know why my Dr. told me my total was over 400!!! I didn't think that was right. Anyway my ldl has gone up and my hdl has gone down, but neither significately. My trgs have gone down, they are still really low. I was reading in PP that if you have low trgs it's a good indicator that your ldl is mostly the "fluffly, cotton ball type." Anyway I think I should ask my Dr. to fraction my ldl and if it's mostly "BBs" then maybe I'll consider statins (but I still don't want to take them, so maybe not).

A side note, my Mom, who suffers from congestive heart failure, has been on statins for a few years. I'm bringing her some CoQ10 tomorrow. I had no idea that there was a link between statins and CHF!! I'm am so upset with her doctors. She has an appointment with her GP on Monday and I'm going with her. Does anyone have some good sources for info on this?

Hello JudyAnn,

I have (had) the same problem, high LDL and high total Cholesterol. The rest is OK.

I am half convinced present medical practice is erroneous on the LDL issue...

It gets forgotten that cholesterol levels, at best, are merely risk factors. "Hypercholesterolemia" sounds like a disease, but it isn't.

*Many* doctors are not aware of the latest research regarding blood cholesterol, dietary fat and cholesterol, etc. There is no substitute, unfortunately, for doing the research yourself, for you wouldn't want to bet your life on "internet advice," but, as it happens, you can get some really bad advice, both on the internet and in a doctor's office.


It seems that statins can have a small effect in lowering cholesterol. But what is completely unclear is whether or not they have any effect in increasing life expectancy. Go to the web site for one of the statins, you will almost certainly see a disclaimer: [drug name] has not been shown to be effective in reducing risk of heart disease. Huh? Then why are billions of dollars being spent on these drugs?

Because they do, on the average, have some effect in lowering cholesterol. And supposedly cholesterol causes atherosclerosis. And supposedly dietary fat causes increased levels of blood cholesterol, I'm pretty sure your doctor will want you to go for a low-fat diet. *Maybe* if the doctor is moderately enlightened, she will allow you to do South Beach. But the fact is that saturated fat, and in particular butter, has not been shown to raise cholesterol levels and it is not associated with heart disease.

The whole situation is insane. Epidemiological studies, that is, studies of different populations, different cultures around the world, provided a hint that lowering fat in the diet might lower heart disease rates. This was at best an indication that one might investigate the effect of dietary fat on heart disease, by no means did it prove any connection. But the powers that be, politically, decided about thirty years ago that it might save millions of lives if they recommended low-fat diets. They reasoned that it couldn't hurt and it might help. And it became the official dogma, for years you couldn't publish contrary research because it would supposedly mislead people, causing them to eat fat and die.

But it was all, as Gary Taubes so eloquently points out, a big fat lie. (Google "Taubes fat lie".)

My suspicion is that the recommendations have, instead of saving millions of lives, shortened millions of lives. Because taking away fat from the diet is almost certain to result in the substitution of carbohydrates, and since carbs are not as satisfying as fats, and fats have what has been called a "metabolic advantage," the result is not only obesity, but also prediabetes and worse. The idea that removing fat from the diet would be, at worst, harmless, was a huge mistake.

So, before you talk to the doctor again, read about this. There is a huge amount of material on the internet, don't think you are going to get through it in a day or a week. And you'll have to learn to suspect it *all*. Certainly you should suspect what I'm saying! After all, what credentials do I have?

And don't be content with a basic cholesterol test that shows only LDL and HDL cholesterol and triglycerides. There is more than one kind of LDL, and some of it is "good." But the fact is that some people have very high levels of LDL cholesterol, perhaps even "bad" cholesterol, and they don't get heart disease. And other people with supposedly good cholesterol levels do get heart disease. When I got a high cholesterol test, after starting Atkins, and my doctor wrote on the test, "Must see you!", I did the research, I was ready when I talked to the doctor. And he acknowledged, yes, even though my LDL was pushing 300, that was the only true risk factor in the test, my HDL was fine and triglycerides were actually very good (and LDL had not been fractionated so we didn't really know the significance of it). And since I don't have familial history of heart disease, and, when I first had a high (but lower) cholesterol test, I got a stress test -- no problems -- and a cardiac CT scan -- excellent -- I was actually low risk.

Plus, as you will hear on this web site, Atkins often bumps up LDL cholesterol, then lowers it after some months. People don't drop dead because their cholesterol went up for a few months. In fact, we really don't know much about the effect of high blood cholesterol. What really matters is plaque in the linings of blood vessels, and, while cholesterol is a component of that plaque, the mechanisms by which it is deposited and taken up are not well understood. I'd say that if you are really concerned, the best thing to do is to take a look at the arteries themselves. A cardiac CAT scan cost me $400. Considering that I dropped my insurance because it had gone over $1300 per month for myself, my wife, and my daughter, I can afford the test! (I got high-deductible major medical, saving about $1000 per month, so I'm actually insured, but basically I directly pay for ordinary stuff short of hospitalization. It's cheaper that way, and I get to choose what care I want, most insurance companies won't pay for cardiac CAT scans.!)

There are plenty of people with higher. You really just started Atkins, give it some more time.

Don't. There is no evidence that lowering your blood cholesterol will lengthen improve the quality of your life. There is *lots* of evidence that lowering your weight (if you aren't underweight) will. (There is also a recent study that indicated that being slightly overweight might lengthen your life, but it just goes to show: studies exist that might show almost anything. You really have to look at the actual study, the methodology, possible confounding factors -- i.e., reasons why the apparent results might be misleading, etc.) But regardless of the studies, and unless you are underweight, lowering your weight will make you feel a lot better, in more ways that one. It's worth it for that alone. But, if it is done right, it probably also makes you healthier.

Ask your doctor: pick one: fat or low cholesterol. Really, there isn't any contest! But cholesterol levels are easy to measure, and so it is relatively easy to develop a drug that affects cholesterol, and you can measure the "effectiveness." My doctor said he hates the system, it is drug-driven.

Why not take the class? And confront the teacher with the research. A rare teacher might actually listen to you; if so, you both might learn. Otherwise you will see a reaction that will demonstrate to you how insane the nutritional establishment has become. If a teacher comes unglued and gets angry because you communicate simple facts, well, you will know how reliable information from that teacher will be.

So after I talked to my doctor, it occurred to me that I'd never asked my mother about her cholesterol. I did, and she said, "Oh, I have a problem with it." My mother is 94 years old, lives alone and takes care of herself. I know why she says she has a problem: her doctor saw the numbers and told her she had a problem. She doesn't have heart disease.

Don't take statins unless you believe that your doctor knows more about the risks and the healthy responses than you do. And if you can, make sure that you know more than your doctor. If you know more, there is no harm in listening and learning from your doctor. She, I'm sure, has more general knowledge about health. But in this particular area, most doctors have been brainwashed.

I suggested to my doctor that perhaps it would be prudent for me to see a cardiologist. He agreed, but he said, "I don't think we could find one who wouldn't want to immediately put you on statins." Then he thought of one: a research cardiologist, and he thought I might be able to get into a study, which could mean free cardiac cat scans. He arranged an appointment at this doctor's lipids clinic, but it was about eight months away....

Meanwhile, I'm enjoying my Atkins Nutritional Approach, I feel better than I've felt for years, I've lost weight and it continues to creep down. And I'm going to continue to watch my cholesterol, but not to worry about it. Next step: exercise, which I now feel more motivated to do....

Thanks for the advise Adb. I've been getting a lot of practice with doctors (and nurses) lately. My Mom is on statins, she has a number of health problems (including congestive heart failure) that have gotten worse in the last six months. About three months ago she started to experience muscle weakness. She squatted down to get something and couldn't get back up. My sister and I thought is had to do with how sick she is (and maybe it does), but when my dr. suggested statins for me I started researching them, and lo and behold!! muscle weakness is one of the more serious side effects. Then I noticed that every statin advertized on TV says at the end that if you experience muscle weakness or soreness to consult your physician. So I went to my Mom's last dr. appt. with her and brought up the statins. Well, the dr. was really condescening. She told me that my Mom was a really sick woman and that she had been through a lot in the last six months (no kidding, who does she think was there while my Mom was going, still going through, all this??? I know way more about my Mom's health than she does.)!!! When I asked why she was on statins, since her chol. levels seem pretty good, she said it was because she was on them. My Mom is under the impression that the statins were started in March, that's the date on her Rx. but the dr. says she started them much earlier, although she couldn't (or wouldn't) tell me when. She also wouldn't tell me my Mom's high #s that she supposedly had, she changed the subject and started talking directly to my Mom. When I pushed the subject and told her about my research - how statins effect muscles including the heart (my Mom has CHF), she said, "Well, you don't have a medical deree." !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If my Mom had not been there... I did tell her that maybe I didn't have a med degree, but she hasn't seen my Mom try to walk up stairs!! So, next week my Mom has an appt. with her cardiologist, and her reg dr. said to bring the statins up with him. She did, however, order a test to see if the statins were affecting my Mom's muscles. BTW, I started her on CoQ10.

It is so frustrating, I'm not looking forward to this appt. This cardiologist is the one who gave my Mom asprin when she was in the hospital - she has ITP, a blood disease and can't go near any blood thinners - ever!!! He also sent her to have an angiogram when her platelette levels were too low. The angio dr. apologised to me and my siblings and talked to the head of cardio about this dr. I also got into it with one of my Mom's nurses when she was in the hospital last time for almost giving her heperine, a blood thinner. She wouldn't tell me the name of the doctor who prescribed it. It was over a weekend so it was the doc on duty. Sometimes I think if it wasn't for my sisters, brother and I the drs. would have killed my Mom by now. Anyway I'm getting a lot better at standing up to the drs. and not taking there word as law.

As far as my own dr. goes, I've been going through thyroid test with her and she wouldn't have tested my T3 if I hadn't called and requested it. It turns out it is on the low side (90, range =70 - 200), while my TSH was showing hyper (.006 r=.2 - 5.5) and my FT4 shows normal (1.5 r=.8 - 1.7). So, I've done my homework on chol. too, and think I am ready to deal with my dr. She's already told me to go low-fat, and I haven't had time to go to any classes, my Mom cannot be left alone so I've been spending my days off at her house. I've started taking Niacin (as the Eades suggest in PP). I'd rather just lower the numbers some and put off another confrontation.