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  #106   ^
Old Wed, Apr-06-11, 12:28
jem51 jem51 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,687
 
Plan: Mine, all mine
Stats: 160/120/120 Female 5'6"
BF:still got some
Progress: 100%
Location: Oregon
Default

Here's a great way to use masa; Indian Pudding.
I use the recipe from foodonthefood. I looked at many and decided that it was closest to what I grew up with.
When I used cornmeal, it gave me gas but masa is prepared to eliminate those aspects.
I used only the molassas and even then it was really sweet so you'll want to watch the sweetener.

Buettner's Costa Rica Quest on youtube has some discussion about treated corn for tortillas rather than just cornmeal/flour.
The whole series is a great view.....
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  #107   ^
Old Wed, Apr-06-11, 12:55
sollyb's Avatar
sollyb sollyb is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 880
 
Plan: modified Peat
Stats: 202/214/180 Female 62.5 inches
BF:
Progress: -55%
Location: Wyoming
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merpig
I hear you too. I *love love love* Hellman's but just cannot bring myself to eat it any longer because of the high-PUFA soybean all it's made from. Don't like the taste of mayo made with EVOO. I've tried light olive oil and it's better, but I have my doubts about the quality of the oil. It's not too bad made with macadamia nut oil, but that's expensive. And frankly none of them taste as good as Hellman's. I have just sort of given up on mayo for the time being.


I wish I could give it up, but I have to confess to being a VERY picky eater, and there are many foods I simply can't/won't eat without mayo or a mayo based sauce or dressing. I had a grated carrot salad with coconut oil and apple cider vinegar yesterday, and I managed to (literally) gag it down, but could never face another one. Even thinking of it makes me nauseous. With mayo (Best Foods/Hellman's), it would have been excellent. Grated carrot salad with mayo and raisins was a staple in my childhood (I picked out the raisins, LOL). I've been trying to "get off" mayo for many years now without any success. Nothing replaces it for me.
sol
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  #108   ^
Old Wed, Apr-06-11, 13:29
sollyb's Avatar
sollyb sollyb is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 880
 
Plan: modified Peat
Stats: 202/214/180 Female 62.5 inches
BF:
Progress: -55%
Location: Wyoming
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlet
You are a lot smarter than I was then. Do you eat any PUFAs though? Chicken skin or pork or nuts/seeds? Do you eat lots of eggs?

Sadly up until last week, I:

- Ate pork every day
- Ate at least three eggs per day and often more
- Had seeded GF bread daily

I also used to regularly eat chicken skin up until late 2010.

So my tissues are clogged with PUFAs. Sadly, they have a half life of FOUR years!!!


Pork and "retained water" only chicken and organic lamb are the only affordable meats I do not have any allergic reactions to. I eat pork daily, often for more than one meal. Unless my allergies miraculously disappear. Our source for lamb has gone out of that business, so once our current stock is gone, that is it for lamb. I don't know if Peat thinks lamb is ok or not, but since we won't be getting any more, it doesn't really matter.

The skin is the best part of chicken, dang it.

4 years! Egad! Somewhere I read it was only 2 years to get PUFAs out of the body. Plus I read something about eating something along with any PUFA intake that blocked at least part of them from being absorbed by the body. Can't remember what it was or where I read it though.

Getting discouraged, this is sounding more and more difficult. It is a whine, but since I'm 65 already, and my dad died at 66 and a brother at 69, I'm wondering if it can possibly be worth 4 years of miserable worsened symptoms to get the PUFAs out? With the remaining neuropathy, low energy, severe insomnia, etc, etc, I'm not all that functional as it is. If I knew the next 4 years would by my last 4 years, I would certainly not choose to do anything that would make me feel even worse for those years! But I guess we all have to bet we will get past that and then have healthy functional years on the other side of the misery?
sol
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  #109   ^
Old Wed, Apr-06-11, 13:40
jem51 jem51 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,687
 
Plan: Mine, all mine
Stats: 160/120/120 Female 5'6"
BF:still got some
Progress: 100%
Location: Oregon
Default

Sollyb, I think that if an eating plan makes you crazy w stress, it is not worth it.
Especially, when we all know, life is short.

Peat may very well have made it to his 80's but there are others in that age group who're doing great w LC; Bernstein, Atkins (RIP), Groves, Lutz (he was what, 97?) and more.....And they were not stressing about PUFA's.

I am not insinuating that one should not follow Peat, if desired. I am just saying that there are healthy ways to go that do not include more food obsession.
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  #110   ^
Old Wed, Apr-06-11, 14:16
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,274
 
Plan: IF/Fung IDM
Stats: 375/259/175 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: NE Florida
Default

Hmm, been trying to try the Peat thing for a couple days now.

Example of:

Breakfast: potatoes fried in coconut oil and served with some butter and sea salt, along with 2 pastured eggs also fried in the coconut oil and topped with some shredded grass-fed cheddar cheese, one small blood orange, one cup coffee with grass-fed heavy cream and a tsp of molasses.

Lunch: 3-4 oz chicken livers sauteed in coconut oil, along with potatoes sauteed in the oil, several raw baby carrots, gelatin custard made from some beef gelatin, half-and-half, square of 85% chocolate, shredded organic coconut flakes, and a tsp of molasses.

Dinner: Two organic grass-fed beef hotdogs sauteed in coconut oil with shredded cabbage, mashed potatoes topped with hollandaise sauce. Custard made from some half-and-half, beef gelatin, vanilla, spoonful of molasses, handful of blueberries...

Okay, I don't know that I'm getting it right at this point - but still trying to work it out. All I can say is that so far my blood sugar is skyrocketing through the roof! I had a reading of *169* 2 hours PP after lunch. I only twice had readings that high or higher in all of 2010. I'm definitely trying to do more reading, and planning what to eat but the blood sugar numbers are not making me happy so far. Quite the opposite!
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  #111   ^
Old Wed, Apr-06-11, 17:31
jem51 jem51 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,687
 
Plan: Mine, all mine
Stats: 160/120/120 Female 5'6"
BF:still got some
Progress: 100%
Location: Oregon
Default

Debbie, maybe it's quantity.

I know you followed Dr K so probably consuming potato, but of course very small amts.

Potato makes my BG higher than I am comfortable with. I weighed my 3 oz portion so I'd be sure but it seems that any amt may be too much.

That's okay since I haven't missed them.
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  #112   ^
Old Wed, Apr-06-11, 17:40
Scarlet's Avatar
Scarlet Scarlet is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,437
 
Plan: Gluten free wholefoods
Stats: 173/145/147 Female 5"4.5 inches
BF:37/?/25
Progress: 108%
Default

Thought I'd post this here again in case anyone is interested:

I'm not diabetic, but have PCOS and am insulin resistant. When I started eating more carbs ala Peat (fructose/sucrose) and ala Stone (mainly starch) my blood sugars also skyrocketed. However I conversed with Matt a lot and he told me it would take time. Well three solid months of eating high starch/ or high sucrose has resulted in the best readings of my life. I used to have a FBG in the mid to late 90s, and a 2 hour PP of 120 or so. Now my FBG numbers are in the 75-85 range and my 2 hour PP is in the 90s.

The main thing is to give it time; blood sugar takes a few months to come down. Also potassium is very important. If I eat a very high carb meal (more than 100 carbs) I take some 99mg potassium pills and my BG is fine.
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  #113   ^
Old Wed, Apr-06-11, 18:37
jem51 jem51 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,687
 
Plan: Mine, all mine
Stats: 160/120/120 Female 5'6"
BF:still got some
Progress: 100%
Location: Oregon
Default

Scarlet, it is hard to know since you never had high BG's.
Matt doesn't do any testing so he really only goes by how he feels...which is only somewhat valid.

As a person w impaired BG readings, I do not know how long I could give it knowing that any high readings are doing damage.

I am a hospice RN and we have a large population of clients in memory care facilities w end stage dementia....I do not want to be one of them.
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  #114   ^
Old Wed, Apr-06-11, 21:09
sollyb's Avatar
sollyb sollyb is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 880
 
Plan: modified Peat
Stats: 202/214/180 Female 62.5 inches
BF:
Progress: -55%
Location: Wyoming
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jem51
Sollyb, I think that if an eating plan makes you crazy w stress, it is not worth it.
Especially, when we all know, life is short.
.


Good point................What got me really going re Peat is his ideas about serotonin. I have had problems with it in the past, particularly when I took SSRIs for 15 years which resulted in total insomnia for those years. I know we die without sleep, but I slept so little, only seconds or a very few minutes at a time, that I was literally unaware of sleeping at all for 15 years.

After a few weeks on strict Bernstein, I began to experience that kind of insomnia again, and got to wondering if my serotonin levels were getting too high for the reasons Peat goes into re high tryptophan foods. If eating fruit, juice, and lots of gelatin could "fix" what I believe to be increasing serotonin excess, that would be wonderful. As long as the blood sugar and neuropathy don't go crazy, of course.

It could also turn out that I'm wrong and serotonin has nothing to do with my current worsening insomnia, but it sure feels familiar.

I am working out for myself what I can do and stick with, and what I can't, and will likely end up with a very individual plan combining some of Peat and Bernstein.
sol
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  #115   ^
Old Wed, Apr-06-11, 21:16
sollyb's Avatar
sollyb sollyb is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 880
 
Plan: modified Peat
Stats: 202/214/180 Female 62.5 inches
BF:
Progress: -55%
Location: Wyoming
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jem51
As a person w impaired BG readings, I do not know how long I could give it knowing that any high readings are doing damage.
.


That is what I worry about, even though I'm new to diabetes/high blood sugars. I have known I had blood sugar anomalies for a while, but getting severe neuropathy pushed me to really research and start testing myself. I have two doctors who think my blood sugars are fine, one that thinks they are "not diabetes, but not normal", and one who says flatly that I am diabetic in his opinion. (none have come up with any other diagnosis for the neuropathy, btw). And since my neuropathy pain is much less when my blood sugars are lower, it seems like it has to be connected.
sol
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  #116   ^
Old Wed, Apr-06-11, 21:30
sollyb's Avatar
sollyb sollyb is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 880
 
Plan: modified Peat
Stats: 202/214/180 Female 62.5 inches
BF:
Progress: -55%
Location: Wyoming
Default

[QUOTE=Merpig]Hmm, been trying to try the Peat thing for a couple days now.

Example of:

Breakfast: potatoes fried in coconut oil ............... one cup coffee with grass-fed heavy cream and a tsp of molasses.

Lunch: 3-4 oz chicken livers sauteed in coconut oil, along with potatoes sauteed in the oil, several raw baby carrots, gelatin custard made from some beef gelatin, half-and-half, square of 85% chocolate, shredded organic coconut flakes, and a tsp of molasses.

Dinner: Two organic grass-fed beef hotdogs sauteed in coconut oil with shredded cabbage, mashed potatoes topped with hollandaise sauce. Custard made from some half-and-half, beef gelatin, vanilla, spoonful of molasses, handful of blueberries...


If I ate that many potatoes (nightshades) in one day, I'd be in big time pain the next day and back walking with canes probably within a week, regardless of what my blood sugar did.

I do wonder if the potato is the main BS culprit, though, or if all the other sugar sources in those meals added to potato is the problem.

I experimented with some modified Peat today. Not really Peat, but for lunch I had a piece of roast pork, a small piece of jack chese, 1/2 a small apple, 6 oz. half and half with 1 packet of knox and SF syrup, and 1/4 cup of ice cream. I missed the 2 hour test, but at 1 hour, BG was 98, and at 3 hours it was 91.
sol
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  #117   ^
Old Wed, Apr-06-11, 21:33
sollyb's Avatar
sollyb sollyb is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 880
 
Plan: modified Peat
Stats: 202/214/180 Female 62.5 inches
BF:
Progress: -55%
Location: Wyoming
Default porcine vs beef gelatin

Taking Scarlet's advice I emailed Ray Peat to ask if the porcine gelatin is ok to substitute for beef gelatin.

I got a reply right away, and here is what he said:
"I use the porcine."

Yay! I'm going to order some ASAP.
sol
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  #118   ^
Old Wed, Apr-06-11, 22:30
Cathy B. Cathy B. is offline
Posts: 4,055
 
Plan: Intuitive Ray Peat
Stats: 321/228.0/199 Female 63 inches
BF:
Progress: 76%
Location: Virginia, USA
Default

I think one of the reasons Ray Peat has not written "The Ray Peat Diet" book is because he understands that each one of us is unique and what he might recommend for one of us, he might not recommend for another. Some of us are young, some (including me) are, ummm...less young? Some are menopausal, some not. Some have thyroids completely out of whack, some have chronically elevated stress hormones, some have diabetes that is controlled by diet, some require medication, some are insulin resistant but not diabetic, some have been eating quite a lot of PUFAS, some not too many, etc., etc.!

For a price of $75, at least that is what it was 5 months ago, you can have a personal nutritional consult with Dr. Peat over the phone. If I could do this all over again, I would probably have done that, rather than try to piece all the information together, bit by bit.

I could tell you what my experience has been, but that does not mean your body would respond in the same way. I can tell you that I definitely agree with Scarlet that there is going to be an adjustment period. But how long that lasts and what to expect during that period depends on the individual.

I am a type 2 diabetic, age 58, and menopausal. I have a thyroid goiter and a low body temperature and slow pulse, and have a lot of difficulty losing weight. (Probably hypothyroid.) I am morbidly obese. I have delayed sleep phase syndrome which Dr. Peat told me can happen in the case of chronically elevated stress hormones and he suggested I have ice cream or a salty type snack with OJ around 9:00 P.M. to repress the stress hormones. This has helped tremendously with my sleep problems and I am waking up refreshed for the first time in about 20 years!

As for my blood sugar, I was diagnosed as a Type 2 diabetic in November of 2009 with a fasting blood sugar of 273! I refused medication and was able to bring my blood sugar down to pre-diabetic range following the Dr. Schwarzbein plan, which also involved giving up gluten, and then down to normal range following Paleo. I did lose some weight following these plans but then things ground to a halt and my thyroid problems started multiplying - hair falling out, drooping eyelids, edema, multiple food sensitivities, skin rashes, gray, pasty complexion, unable to lose ANY weight, and staying awake until 5 or 6 A.M.!

Scarlet told me about Ray Peat and the more I read, the more interested I became. I started following his recommendations on November 3rd. I was amazed at how much better I felt, almost overnight. I felt much stronger and more agile, I had more energy, and I loved how the food made me feel full and content and happy. Unlike some who are afraid to dive right into the sugar, I didn't hesitate to do so! :-) I had about a pint of Haagen Dazs each day, divided into 2 servings. I also followed the other dietary recommendations as much as possible.

The first few days, my blood sugars remained about the same, which after Paleo were usually around 90 to 100 fasting, and 120s to 130's post meal. Then all hell broke loose for a while. Here are some posts from my journal:

November 9, 2010
Definite weird goings on, hormones wise. When I woke up, I felt very hot, my face was red and flushed, I had no appetite, and my blood sugar was 126. An hour later (I still hadn't eaten), I suddenly became FREEZING cold, and I was ravenous! My blood sugar dropped about 30 points, down to 99.

I checked a 90 minute post meal reading and the blood sugar is 173. NOT GOOD. But my temperature is 98.3. I haven't seen 98.anything in years, unless I had a fever.


November 21, 2010
I took my blood sugar after lunch, and it was 123, so it was higher before the meal than 2 hours after! So maybe I am starting to make some progress. It was in the 190's a few days ago, then 180's, then 170's. Maybe my body IS adjusting to the higher carbs, slowly but surely.

November 26, 2010
I am happy to report that my blood sugar seems to be stabilizing. The last few fasting blood sugars have been 110, pretty much the norm for me. (Even with eating Haagen Dazs and drinking orange juice!) :-) So I think my body just needed to go through an adjustment period to the higher level of carbs. (Peaking at a fasting blood sugar of 151 during the second week!)


So my blood sugars definitely went up for the first 3 weeks. The post meal readings started coming down first, but the fasting remained elevated (120's or 130's) for the first 3 or 4 months. Today my fasting blood sugar was 110, my post breakfast reading was 125, and my pre lunch reading was 102. Needless to say, I am very happy about that! Combine that with my 100% improved sleep, and my increased strength and mobility, and I am pretty thrilled with my progress. My skins rashes have completely disappeared, as have most of my food sensitivities. My digestion and elimination problems also have cleared up. I look younger and feel younger. My hairdresser tells me I have "tons" (her word, not mine) of new hair growth, and I hadn't even mentioned anything to her about this new way of eating. I am hoping that as time goes on, my adrenal system and thyroid will continue to heal and I might even be able to lose some weight, especially with the warmer weather coming, when I can get more exercise.

I will say that in my experience, eating the Haagen Dazs ice cream was very helpful in LOWERING my blood sugar. I would notice my readings would be better when I would end a meal with some Haagen Dazs. Peat says that the sugar combined with the fat and calcium are protective, and at least in my case, that was and remains true. It is very calorie dense, however, and may make weight loss more difficult, but for me, getting my blood sugar under control was my top priority.

This is definitely not a quick fix. But I believe it IS a fix, whereas so many other plans may appear to be helping us at first, but are actually doing a lot of damage to our thyroid and adrenal system.

Cathy
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  #119   ^
Old Wed, Apr-06-11, 22:38
jem51 jem51 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,687
 
Plan: Mine, all mine
Stats: 160/120/120 Female 5'6"
BF:still got some
Progress: 100%
Location: Oregon
Default

It is amazing how many lc'ers have trouble w sleep. It is sort of like having the opposite of that feeling of drugged sleep that high carb, sugary food induces.

I have this problem but it has worsened since menopause so I suspect that hormones are my issue.

I purchased some of the progesterone in V-E that Peat recommends and had 0 results.

Probably if I ate enough carbs, I would sleep well or at least better.
Thing is, even though I slept, I was always tired so am better off not doing that plus there is the worry of higher blood sugar...way too scary for me.

So that is exactly what I've done; combined some of Peat's ideas w lc and use my meter.
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  #120   ^
Old Thu, Apr-07-11, 10:01
sollyb's Avatar
sollyb sollyb is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 880
 
Plan: modified Peat
Stats: 202/214/180 Female 62.5 inches
BF:
Progress: -55%
Location: Wyoming
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathy B.
I think one of the reasons Ray Peat has not written "The Ray Peat Diet" book is because he understands that each one of us is unique and what he might recommend for one of us, he might not recommend for another. Some of us are young, some (including me) are, ummm...less young? Some are menopausal, some not. Some have thyroids completely out of whack, some have chronically elevated stress hormones, some have diabetes that is controlled by diet, some require medication, some are insulin resistant but not diabetic, some have been eating quite a lot of PUFAS, some not too many, etc., etc.!

For a price of $75, at least that is what it was 5 months ago, you can have a personal nutritional consult with Dr. Peat over the phone. If I could do this all over again, I would probably have done that, rather than try to piece all the information together, bit by bit.

I could tell you what my experience has been, but that does not mean your body would respond in the same way. sugar under control was my top priority.

This is definitely not a quick fix. But I believe it IS a fix, whereas so many other plans may appear to be helping us at first, but are actually doing a lot of damage to our thyroid and adrenal system.

Cathy


Cathy,
Thanks for the detailed post of your experiences. Very helpful and encouraging for me, as I also have adrenal/thyroid issues. Not currently medicating for either one, though I have done in the past.
I hope my itching/rashes stop or lessen as yours did. It would be fantastic to be able to eat more beef, it really is my favorite meat. At the moment I have serious itching, and pain in my upper back, probably from 2 days of lots of beef gelatin. Not yet quite to the skin texture change point though. Taking large doses of antihistamine, applying DMSO. Going to lay off the beef gelatin for today, and see if itching reduces.
sol
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