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  #1   ^
Old Fri, May-30-08, 20:18
BrianEE93's Avatar
BrianEE93 BrianEE93 is offline
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Default Insulin and It's Metabolic Effects

Some of you may have read this on the Web but this is a transcription from the speech with some of the questions and answers.

Long read.(20 pages)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Insulin and It's Metabolic Effects.pdf (183.4 KB, 42 views)
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  #2   ^
Old Fri, May-30-08, 20:44
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rightnow rightnow is online now
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Plan: LC (ketogenic)
Stats: 520/350/280 Female 66 inches
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The speech by who? Where?
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, May-30-08, 20:47
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BrianEE93 BrianEE93 is offline
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It is on the first page of the file.
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  #4   ^
Old Fri, May-30-08, 22:30
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rightnow rightnow is online now
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Plan: LC (ketogenic)
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Yes but since you are posting it to a mass forum and it is a PDF which some browsers have an issue with, I thought making the trouble to actually SAY what it is, who it's from, what it relates to, would have been helpful. Wish I hadn't had to spell that out... my Adobe is having issues right now so I can't pull up the PDF to even see whether I do want to read it or save it.
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  #5   ^
Old Fri, May-30-08, 23:52
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Elihnig Elihnig is offline
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Ron Rosedale, 1999

Quote:
Ron Rosedale, M.D.
Insulin and It's Metabolic Effects
Presented at Crayhon Research Institute's BoulderFest August 1999 Seminar
Let's talk about a couple of case histories. These are actual patients that I've
seen; let's start with patient A. This patient who we will just call patient A saw me
one afternoon and said that he had literally just signed himself out of the hospital
"AMA," or against medical advice. Like in the movies, he had ripped out his IV's. The
next day he was scheduled to have his second by-pass surgery. He had been told
that if he did not follow through with this by-pass surgery, within two weeks he
would be dead. He couldn't walk from the car to the office without severe chest pain.
He was on 102 units of insulin and his blood sugars were 300 plus. He was on eight
different medications for various things. But his first by-pass surgery was such a
miserable experience he said he would rather just die than have to go through the
second one and had heard that I might be able to prevent that. To make a long story
short, this gentleman right now is on no insulin. I first saw him three and a half
years ago. He plays golf four or five times a week. He is on no medications
whatsoever, he has no chest pain, and he has not had any surgery. He started an
organization called "Heart Support of America" to educated people that there are
alternatives to by-pass surgery that have nothing to do with surgery or medication.
That organization, he last told me had a mailing list of over a million people, a large
organization, "Heart Support of America."
Patient B is a patient who had a triglyceride level of 2200. Patient B was
referred by patient A. He had a triglyceride of 2200, cholesterol of 950 and was on
maximum doses of all of his medications. He was 42 years old, and he was told that
he had familial hyperlipidema and that he had better get his affairs in order, that if
that was what his lipids were despite the best medications with the highest doses, he
was in trouble. He was not fat at all, he was fairly thin. Whenever I see a patient on
any of those medications, they're off the very first visit. They have no place in
medicine. He was taken off the medications and in six weeks his lipid levels, both his
Triglycerides and his cholesterol were hovering around 220. Six more weeks they
were both under 200, off of the medications. They have no place in medicine. I
should mention that this patient had a CPK that was quite elevated. It was circled on
the lab report that he brought in initially with a question mark by it because they
didn't know why. The reason why was because he was eating off his muscles,
because if you take (gyinfibrozole) and any of the HMG co-enzyme reductase
inhibitors together, that is a common side effect that is in the PDR, and they
shouldn't be given together. So he was chewing up his muscles, including his heart
which they were trying to treat. So if indeed he was going to die, it was going to be
that treatment that was going to kill him.
Let's go to something totally different, a lady with severe osteoporosis. She is
almost three standard deviations below the norm in both the hip femeral neck and
the cervical vertebrae, and she is very worried about getting a fracture. A fairly
young woman and she was put on a high carbohydrate diet and told that would be of
benefit, and placed on estrogen, which is a fairly typical treatment. They wanted to
put her on some other medicines and she didn't want to, she wanted to know if there
was an alternative. Although we didn't have as dramatic a turn around, we got her to
one standard deviation below the norm in a year, taking her off the estrogen she was
on, anyway.
Let's go to calaudication. That is severe angina of the leg when you walk, same
thing as angina of the heart except of the leg. While walking, after walking a certain
distance, there is pain. There was a gentleman who had extremely severe
calaudication, who happens to be my stepfather. It was a typical case, he would walk
about fifty yards and then he would get severe, crampy pain in his legs. He was quite
well off and was going to see the best doctors in Chicago, and they couldn't figure
out what was wrong with him initially. He went to a neurologist, they thought it
might be neurological pain or back pain. He finally went to a vascular surgeon who
said he thought it was vascular disease, so they did an artheriogram and sure
enough, he had severe vascular disease. They did Doppler studies on his ankobracheal
ratio on one side and it was 0.6, normal is around 1.1. 0.4 and you are in
trouble for gangrene, so it was pretty bad, and they wanted to do the typical by-pass
surgery that they normally do on this. He was thinking of going in for the surgery for
one reason, they had a trip planned to Europe in two weeks, and he wanted to be
able to walk since they normally do a lot of walking. Ten years previously he'd had
an angioplasty for heart disease. At the time ten years ago, I told him he had to
change his diet and he didn't of course. But this time he listened. I said that if he
was not going to have a by-pass, then do exactly what I tell you to do and in two
weeks you'll be walking just fine because by modulating this one aspect of his
disease, I have never seen it not work, and it works very quickly to open up the
artery.
We can talk about a patient with a very high cancer risk. She had a mother and
a sister who both died of breast cancer and she didn't want to, so she came in and I
put her on the exact same treatment as the other cases I just mentioned. They were
all treated virtually identically because they all had the same thing wrong with them.
What would be the typical treatment of cardiovascular disease? First they check the
cholesterol. High cholesterol over 200, they put you on cholesterol lowering drugs
and what does it do? It shuts off your CoQ10. What does CoQ10 do? It is involved in
the energy production and protection of little energy furnaces in every cell, so energy
production goes way down. A common side effect of people who are on all these
HMG co-enzyme reductase inhibitors is that they tell you their arms feel heavy. Well,
the heart is a muscle too, and it's going to feel heavy too. One of the best
treatments for a weak heart is CoQ10 for congestive heart failure. But they have no
trouble shutting CoQ10 production off so that they can treat a number. And the
common therapies for osteoporosis are drugs, and the common therapy for
calaudication is surgery. For cancer reduction there is nothing. But all of these have
a common cause.
The same cause as three major avenues of research in aging. One is called caloric
restriction. There are thousands of studies done since the fifties on caloric restriction.
They restrict calories of laboratory animals. They have known since the fifties that if
you restrict calories but maintain a high level of nutrition, called "C.R.O.N.'s:" Caloric
restriction with optimal nutrition, or adequate nutrition, which would be CRAN"S,
these animals can live anywhere between thirty and two-hundred percent longer
depending on the species. They've done it on several dozen species and the results
are uniform throughout. They are doing it on primates now and it is working with
primates, we won't know for sure for about another ten years, they are about half
way through the experiment, our nearest relatives are also living much longer.
Then there are Centenarian studies. There are three major centenarian studies going
on around the world. They are trying to find the variable that would confer longevity
among these people. Why do centenarians become centenarians? Why are they so
lucky? Is it because they have low cholesterol, exercise a lot, live a healthy, clean
life? Well the longest recorded known person who has ever lived, Jean Calumet of
France who died last year at 122 years, smoked all of her life and drank. What they
are finding on these major centenarian studies is that there is hardly anything in
common among them. They have high cholesterol and low cholesterol, some
exercise and some don't, some smoke, some don't. Some are nasty as can be and
some nice and calm and nice. Some are ornery, but they all low sugar, relatively for
their age. They all have low triglycerides for their age. And they all have relatively
low insulin. Insulin is the common denominator in everything I've just talked about.
They way to treat cardiovascular disease and the way I treated my stepfather, the
way I treated the high risk cancer patient, and osteoporosis, high blood pressure, the
way to treat virtually all the so-called chronic diseases of aging is to treat insulin
itself.
The other major avenue of research in aging has to do with genetic studies of socalled
lower organisms. We know the genetics involved. We've got the entire genes
mapped out of several species now, of yeast and worms. We think of life span as
being fixed, sort of. Humans kind of have an average life span of seventy-six, and
the maximum life-span was this French lady at one-hundred and twenty-two. In
humans we feel it is relatively fixed, but in lower forms of life it is very plastic. Life
span is strictly a variable depending on the environment. They can live two weeks,
two years, or sometimes twenty years depending on what they want themselves to
do, which depends very much on the environment. If there is a lot of food around
they are going to reproduce quickly and die quickly, if not they will just bide their
time until conditions are better. We know now that the variability in life span is
regulated by insulin.
One thinks of insulin as strictly to lower blood sugar. Today in the clinic there was a
patient listing off her drugs, she listed about eight drugs she was on and didn't even
mention insulin. Insulin is not treated as a drug. In fact, in some places you don't
even need a prescription, you can just get it over the counter, it's treated like candy.
Insulin is found as in even single celled organisms. It has been around for several
billion years. And its purpose in some organisms is to regulate life span. The way
genetics works is that genes are not replaced, they are built upon. We have the
same genes as everything that came before us. We just have more of them. We
have added books to our genetic library, but our base is the same. What we are
finding is that we can use insulin to regulate lifespan too.
If there is a single marker for lifespan, as they are finding in the centenarian studies,
it is insulin, specifically, insulin sensitivity. How sensitive are your cells to insulin.
When they are not sensitive, the insulin levels go up. Who has heard of the term
insulin resistance? Insulin resistance is the basis of all of the chronic diseases of
aging, because the disease itself is actually aging. We know now that aging is a
disease. The other case studies that I mentioned, cardiovascular disease,
osteoporosis, obesity, diabetes, cancer, all the so-called chronic diseases of aging,
auto-immune diseases, those are symptoms. If you have a cold and you go to the
doctor, you have a runny nose, I did Ear, Nose and Throat for ten years, I know
what the common treatment for that is, they give you a decongestant. I can't tell
you how many patients I saw who had been given Sudafed by their family doctors
for a cold and they came to see me after because of a really bad sinus infection.
What happens when you treat the symptom of a runny nose from a cold and you
take a decongestant? It certainly decongests you by shutting off the mucus. Why do
you have the mucus, because you are trying to clean and wash out the membranes,
and what else? What else is in mucus? Secretory IgA, a very strong antibody to kill
the virus is in the mucus. If there is no mucus, there is no secretory IgA.
Decongestants also constrict blood vessels, the little capillaries, or arterioles that go
to those capillaries, the cilia, the little hair-like projections that beat to push mucus
along to create a stream, they get paralyzed because they don't have blood flow so
there is no more ciliary movement. What happens if you dam a stream and create a
pond? In days you've got larvae growing. If the stream is moving, you are fine. You
need a constant stream of mucus to get rid of and prevent an infection. I am going
in to this in some detail because in almost all cases if you treat a symptom, you are
going to make the disease worse because the symptom is there as your body's



plus about 18 pages more.
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  #6   ^
Old Sat, May-31-08, 00:06
Elihnig's Avatar
Elihnig Elihnig is offline
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Posts: 5,348
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 284.2/250.8/165 Female 70 inches
BF:
Progress: 28%
Location: Maine
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From the end:

Quote:
My take on fat is that if I am treating a patient who is generally hyperinsulinemic or
overweight, I want them on a low saturated fat diet. Because most of the fat they
are storing is saturated fat. When their insulin goes down and they are able to start
releasing triglycerides to burn as fat, what they are going to be releasing mostly is
saturated fat. So you don't want to take anymore orally. There is a ration of fatty
acids that is desirable, if you took them from the moment you were born, but we
don't, we are dealing with an imbalance here that we are trying to correct as rapidly
as we can. You have plenty of saturated fat. Most of us here have enough saturated
fat to last the rest of our life. Truthfully. Your cell membranes require a balance of
saturated and poly-unsaturated fat, and it is that balance that determines the
fluidity. As I mentioned, your cells can become over-fluid if they don't have any
saturated fat. Saturated fat is a hard fat. We can get the fats from foods to come
mostly from nuts. Nuts are a great food because it is mostly mono-unsaturated. Your
primary energy source ideally would come mostly from mono-unsaturated fat. It's a
good compromise. It is not an essential fat, but it is a more fluid fat. Your body can
utilize it very well as an energy source.
(Question)
Animal proteins are fine and are good for you, but not the ones that are fed grains.
Grainfed animals are going to make saturated fat out of the grains. Saturated fat in
nature occurs to a very tiny degree. Not in the wild there is very little saturated fat
out there. If you talk about the Paleolithic diet, we didn't eat a saturated fat diet.
Saturated fat diets are new to mankind. We manufactured a saturated fat diet by
feeding animals grains. You can consider saturated fat to be second generation
carbohydrates. We eat the saturated fats that other animals produce from
carbohydrates.
(Question)
Zone was a good diet compared to the American diet it was unusual. Is it an optimal
diet? No. Is it optimal for what is known today about nutrition, it is not. He is stuck
in this mold he can't get out of but now he is trying to get out of it through the back
door. Initially the author spoke about how it made no difference if you got your
carbohydrate from candy or vegetables. The Volkswagen was a good car, but
eventually they had to change it to keep up with modern technology. What he is
doing now is changing his recipes so that the 40% carbohydrates are coming
primarily from vegetables, and the carbohydrates are going way down because he
knows that if he doesn't it's not as good a diet.
(Question)
I would go 20% of calories from carbs. Depending on the size of the person, 25 to
30% of calories from protein, and 60-65% from fat. You can get non-grain fed beef.
Lasater beef is non-grain fed, and buffalo is non-grain fed.
Insulin is not the only cause of disease. There are other considerations such as iron.
We know that high iron levels are bad for you. If a person's ferritin is high, red meat
is out for a while, till we get their iron down. SO there are other things involved
about if we are going to allow a person to eat red meat or not.
(Question)
There is a great deal of difference between a non-grain fed cow and a grain fed cow.
Non-grain fed will have only 10% or less saturated fat. Grain fed can have over 50%.
There is a big difference. A non-grain fed cow will actually be high in Omega 3 oils.
Plants have a pretty high percentage of Omega 3, and if you accumulate it by eating
it all day, every day for most of your life, your fat gets a pretty high proportion of
Omega 3. I would try for 50% oleic fat, and the others would depend on the
individual, but about 25% of the other two. In a fat diabetic I would probably go
down on the saturated fat and go 60% oleic. I would go 1 to 1 on the omega 6 to 3,
that would be therapeutic. The maintenance ratio would be about 2.5 to 1 omega 6
to 3. Arachadonic acid, DHA, to EFA. Therapeutic, I would go lesser on the saturated
fats. I would try to do most of this through diet. There are some practicalities
involved. I would ask the person if they like fish and if they practically puke in front
of me they are going on a tablespoon of cod liver oil, the best brand is made by
Carlton which doesn't taste fishy at all. There are probably some others too that are
okay. Most people end up going on a supplement of Omega 3 oils because most of
them are not going to eat enough fish to get it, which would be about four days a
week, and it can't be overcooked etc., it is a little hard to get that much entirely
from diet.
Other therapeutic doses of nutrients include:
Elemental magnesium 300 to 400 depending on what their gut can tolerate. I like
I.V. magnesium to replenish them.
Vitamin E, big fan of Vitamin E, I would go to 2000mg.
Zinc, 30 to sixty mg, balanced with 2mg of copper per 15 mg of zinc, usually 4mg of
copper sebacate.
Taurine: 1gm twice a day.
Chromium 1000mcg
Vanadium 25mg for about two to three months. Then down to 71/2 mg three times a
day, then I'll go down further, then I take them off completely once they are better.
They can have as much glutamine as they want and as much carnitine as they can
afford. The more the better
I use gymnema sylvestre a lot.
I like sardines if they will eat them. Sardines are a very good therapeutic food. They
are baby fish so they haven't had time to accumulate a bunch of metal. They are
smoked so they are not cooked and the oil is not spoiled in them. You have to eat
the whole thing. Not the boneless and skinless. You need to eat all the organs and
they are high in vitamins and magnesium.
DNA glycates. So if people are worried about chromosomal damage from chromium,
what they should really be worried about instead is high blood sugar. DNA repair
enzymes glycate as well. Insulin is by far your biggest poison. They disproved that
study that was against chromium many times. They showed that it only happens if
you put cells in a petrie dish with chromium but in vivo studies prove otherwise. The
lowering of insulin is going to be better than any possible detriment of any of the
therapies you are using. Insulin is associated with cancer, everything.
Insulin should be tested on everybody repeatedly, and why it is not is only strictly
because there hasn't been drugs till recently that could effect insulin, so there is no
way to make money off of it. Fasting insulin is one way to look at it, not necessarily
the best way. But it is the way that everybody could do it. Any family doctor can
measure a fasting insulin. There are other ways to measure insulin sensitivity that
are more complex that we do sometimes. We use intravenous insulin and watch how
rapidly their blood sugar crashes in a fasting state in 15 minutes and that assesses
insulin sensitivity, then you give them dextrose to make sure they don't crash any
further. There are other ways that are utilized to directly assess insulin sensitivity,
but you can get a pretty good idea just by doing a fasting insulin.
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  #7   ^
Old Sat, May-31-08, 00:50
rightnow's Avatar
rightnow rightnow is online now
Every moment is NOW.
Posts: 20,941
 
Plan: LC (ketogenic)
Stats: 520/350/280 Female 66 inches
BF: Why yes it is.
Progress: 71%
Location: Ozarks USA
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That's fascinating, thanks for posting that! I'll save it so I can read the rest eventually.
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  #8   ^
Old Sat, May-31-08, 07:29
Rocketguy Rocketguy is offline
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Plan: Atkins
Stats: 245/193/170 Male 67 inches
BF:
Progress:
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Our of curiosity, I googled the drugs in the extract below....


Search terms: gyinfibrozole AND "HMG co-enzyme reductase"
================================

The reason why was because he was eating off his muscles,
because if you take (gyinfibrozole) and any of the HMG co-enzyme reductase
inhibitors together, that is a common side effect that is in the PDR, and they
shouldn't be given together. So he was chewing up his muscles, including his heart
which they were trying to treat. So if indeed he was going to die, it was going to be
that treatment that was going to kill him.

==================================

All I got were three hits on the same article published in different places.

While not conclusive, this has the appearance of being bogus.

Kevin Trudeau and Kim Kim are not the only scammers of diet and health.

Caution. The whole presentation of this from the OP is second rate in concern for fellow list members.

Ignoring the question of what it is and who wrote it.
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  #9   ^
Old Sat, May-31-08, 09:55
BrianEE93's Avatar
BrianEE93 BrianEE93 is offline
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Posts: 10
 
Plan: Mine
Stats: 327/289/250 Male 6'3"
BF:
Progress: 49%
Location: St. Charles, MO
Default

Sorry. Just thought I would share an interesting speech not stir everyone up. I work with computers and PDF problems are fairly rare since the viewers are free and widely available. I would just uninstall and then download the lastest viewer from Adobe.

I don't even know if I believe it all but there are some interesting items in there. No more sharing because someone might get upset and eat carbs.

I am not liking this forum so far. I don't think I will be back. People seem a little touchy. Low-carb syndrome?
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  #10   ^
Old Sat, May-31-08, 10:08
lowcarbUgh's Avatar
lowcarbUgh lowcarbUgh is offline
Dazed and Confused
Posts: 2,927
 
Plan: South Beach
Stats: 170/132/135 Female 5'10
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Flip-flop, FL
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People should be critical of information presented, even that of Dr. Atkins himself. The science is always evolving. Don't take it personally, Brian.
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  #11   ^
Old Sat, May-31-08, 10:16
rightnow's Avatar
rightnow rightnow is online now
Every moment is NOW.
Posts: 20,941
 
Plan: LC (ketogenic)
Stats: 520/350/280 Female 66 inches
BF: Why yes it is.
Progress: 71%
Location: Ozarks USA
Default

Brian, dude.

Three people responded. One posting, one enthusiastic, one critical. The critical one has a whole 2 posts on this forum. If you want to see that as an entire forum filled with people hostile to you, you can, but I think you might need to develop a thicker skin before the internet will be a fun place for you. You can't take strangers personally, and it's not fair to assign to a huge group of people the behavior of one.
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  #12   ^
Old Sat, May-31-08, 10:41
BrianEE93's Avatar
BrianEE93 BrianEE93 is offline
New Member
Posts: 10
 
Plan: Mine
Stats: 327/289/250 Male 6'3"
BF:
Progress: 49%
Location: St. Charles, MO
Default

I have been on forums on the internet for over 10 years and have read a lot of posts on here. I see a lot of touchy ones. I had no problem with the new person's comments. Rocketguy's post was very interesting. That is what a forum is about--sharing and discussing information. I see a lot of getting on people for little things. It isn't worth my time with so many forums out there. Maybe this is the best low-carb but it isn't worth getting flamed. I have stopped reading a few other forums not related to low-carb because reality sets in that you get a little apprehensive about posting because someone might flame you instead of discussing the issue with you and showing both sides.

I am sorry but I guess this thread got off to a back start with a little kick for not posting the speaker and where it happened. I couldn't have known that everyone couldn't open a PDF.
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  #13   ^
Old Sat, May-31-08, 10:47
M Levac M Levac is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,492
 
Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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The study is reprinted in full here:

http://www.lowcarb.ca/articles/article149.html
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  #14   ^
Old Sat, May-31-08, 10:51
lowcarbUgh's Avatar
lowcarbUgh lowcarbUgh is offline
Dazed and Confused
Posts: 2,927
 
Plan: South Beach
Stats: 170/132/135 Female 5'10
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Flip-flop, FL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M Levac
The study is reprinted in full here:

http://www.lowcarb.ca/articles/article149.html


Thanks. I can't read a .pdf on my MacBook without scrolling to the right.

There was an error in the url due to the bold tag.

http://www.lowcarb.ca/articles/article149.html
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  #15   ^
Old Sat, May-31-08, 10:51
BrianEE93's Avatar
BrianEE93 BrianEE93 is offline
New Member
Posts: 10
 
Plan: Mine
Stats: 327/289/250 Male 6'3"
BF:
Progress: 49%
Location: St. Charles, MO
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M Levac
The study is reprinted in full here:

http://www.lowcarb.ca/articles/article149.html


Thank you. It is also here:

http://www.biblelife.org/rosedale.htm

The attached PDF is basically the samething but someone transcribed it from a recording and included some of the questions. Maybe the site you linked to does this also?
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