Well, you could have helpful suggestions on how to pee standing up, even if you are a woman…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfL8-AgWBf0
http://www.femalefreedom.ca/
http://www.whizzy4you.com/

besides that, how do you think single mother’s teach their sons to pee standing up? They give helpful suggestions and direct them. It is possible. If you have learned the knowledge from elsewhere, you are able to comment. Do you not see any male gynaecologists/obstetricians etc because they are not female therefore can not possibly know anything about the female anatomy or pregnancy? How about a male nutritionist/dietician in regards to pregnancy (which I was made to go to as my midwife was uncertain paleo was ok, but the dietician gave me the all clear, but now I see.. he was male, therefore can not be giving me the right advice about being pregnant.).

Tarlach may not have the qualifications, but he has done more research and study than any dietician/nutritionist I know of… in fact the dietician I saw while pregnant did comment on that too.



I am not embarrassed by Tarlach what so ever. I, in fact, respect his opinion. I did not even know about this thread until bought to my attention by Tarlach as I find this whole forum a rather pathetic excuse for paleo information. Why bother coming here if all you want is reassurance that it’s ok to eat food that is clearly not paleo? Dairy is 100% not paleo. If you read any scientific justification, there is NOT ONE SINGLE mammal on earth that naturally consumes milk after weaning, ESPECIALLY not from ANOTHER mammal.

I have chosen a long time ago that I could not be bothered with this forum as I seem to be arguing the same stupid arguments over and over and over again to stupid people who just want to justify to themselves that it’s ok to eat grains/dairy/ etc etc etc

I have done TWO pregnancies following a pretty hard core style of Paleo eating. The second pregnancy was more hardcore than the other. This has resulted in TWO perfectly healthy children, who have very healthy appetites and eat fantastically healthy paleo diets (even better than their parents). Both have had NO trouble with eating (unlike the stuff I hear from mother’s group and friends with kids). In addition, I have got a better physique than before having children, I have fantastic energy and would never hesitate to do paleo (maybe even more hardcore) with any possible future pregnancies (though none are planned) and I would never hesitate to recommend it either.


I come to (well used to at least) this forum to get support for eating food based on Paleo available foods. All I get here is discussions from people who are either not ever going to be paleo or wanting justification to eat stuff not paleo, rarely discussions on how to become more paleo or improve your diet to be paleo. It always perplexes me when people come to the Paleo section and then start harping on about how they’re eating milk, cheese, butter etc etc and then start talking about recipes and the sort and then try to justify that it’s all ok by the statement
Why the Hell even come here if you don’t want to be paleo? Why the hell even try eating paleo if you go by the statement that no one even knows what Paleo man ate. I know for one, I am trusting SCIENCE to tell me what probably was available and consumed by Paleo man. That is what makes me a Paleolithic eater. If you want to make up your own diets, go right ahead. I couldn’t care less what you eat. But please don’t try and justify that your way of eating is fine to be called Paleo when it simply is just not…

OMFG. And I didn't think this could get more ridiculous. You are quite a pair of time travelers! Incredible! You guys should like, write a book! "We Rz the most Hardcore Paleo, ok?!"

FYI I ate nothing but hardcore CRAP my first pregnancy and also had a perfectly healthy kid with a voracious appetite for nutritious foods. Highly processed foods throughout pregnancy is clearly healthy! I should write my own book!


All hail the queen and king of Paleolandia! I'm not worthy!

You are good at insulting people and putting in false quotes. Not very good at constructing a sensible argument, or offering any helpful information...

I doubt that anyone would buy your book if you put in the info from your profile:


And you are happy to have a go at us for offering our opinions after my wife's experience?

It clearly differed greatly to you own, and I thought would be of interest to others.

As I said before, I don't come to these boards very often anymore, as I am sick of having the same argument over and over again with stupid people.
Just in case I didn't make it clear the first time, I'll quote the main point I was trying to make in my last post:


I don't understand why you came to a PALEO section to talk about your pregnancy and then have a go at those who follow the PALEO way of eating for giving their advice. I mentioned my pregnancies not because I think you should have to eat my way while pregnant (I couldn't care less what you eat, it makes no difference to me) but because you posted in a PALEO support forum, so I assumed that you wanted advice on eating a PALEO diet while pregnant and I had done it TWICE with no ill effects. I know that stupid people can eat crap and get away with no ill effects, but I don't care about that... I was offering advice for a pregnancy eating as close to PALEO as possible on a PALEO forum...

Get the idea now? Or do I need to quote it again?

I'm curious about the dental health of your kids. My kids (definitely NOT paleo) have teeth like my husband's and mine -- either crowded and crooked or crossbite and spaced. Caries aren't an issue with any of them, however (nor for me).

I would be curious if children of parents with crooked teeth were raised either with a paleo or a WAPF type diet ended up with straight teeth despite their parents' jaw and tooth formation, or if it become inherited after a few generations of eating poorly.

Whew! Thanks for coming back Centa - I'm not surprised that you weren't embarrassed but I didn't want to make any assumptions. I'm sorry it's been so un-rewarding for you. Paleo certainly isn't the most supportive of the low-carb forums, is it?

And thanks tiredangel for returning to the subject. Our first child was gestated on Elio's frozen pizza and she's been told she'll need braces. Our second was transitional and our third had the beginnings of some Paleo leanings, but many exceptions because of Hyperemesis. We'll have to wait and see how their teeth turn out.

All of the kids have followed our WOE as it has changed, though we are a little more flexible with them - they get more potatoes than we do, and they have rice occasionally. Two of them are allowed to have dairy right now, but the middle child is not because of her reaction. The oldest one seems better with dairy, but Red #40 turns her into a psychopath. Their tastes are pretty Paleo, with the middle child being most like me - she loves meat and will eat fat straight out of a bowl. The oldest seems a bit carb-fixated and will eat nothing but rice or French fries if she gets the chance, but she doesn't get the chance every day. Both of the younger ones often beg for raw hamburger.

Now see, this is really something women don't understand. The problem is that it doesn't always come out in the same direction.

I've managed to completely avoid the issue by peeing sitting down. I only stand up when there is an actual urinal available.

Now you know I'm even more of a freak than you thought!

Actually, I recommend peeing sitting down! It works very well for slightly more than 50% of us!

Wasn't it WAP that said our jaws are small and teeth are crowded due to deficiencies in D3 and K2? He noticed how wide the jaws are of people who live in sunny climes and get lots of sunshine.

Back when I was in high school and had never heard of paleo eating I can still remember going over to visit my best friend. And if her mother was making hamburgers my friend would always grab little chunks of raw meat out of the bowl to eat! Eeewww, I remember how grossed out I was. Now I see how paleo of her it was.

But of course she was *not* really paleo as her mother also baked all the family's bread, and I can remember also being there when her mother was taking loaves of bread from the oven, and she would *also* grab a fresh loaf and rip it apart, and slather butter all over it and chow down.

Yeah, wow, the discussion *has* grown a little heated here, even more so than recent threads over on the War Zone.

But I'm not sure that calling people "stupid" who choose not to follow a fully paleo lifestyle adds to the discussion either. For example, my son and daughter-in-law are not "stupid" people. They are both very bright, in fact. More so that I am. Neither is a professional scientist or nutritionist (my son is a lawyer, my DiL a paralegal) but my son, in particular, has a huge interest in human nutrition, and studying it is probably his principal avocation.

At one point in his life he was a follower of the Neanderthin eating plan and was fully and rabidly paleo. As he says of that period in his life: "I was convinced Ray Audette was a prophet of some sort and I preached the gospel." But his energy began to flag and he began to feel less well, and went back to the drawing board in his nutritional research.

And he concluded that following a Weston A. Price-style diet is the one that makes the most sense *to him*. He eats some grains, though only ones that have been soaked and fermented. He eats some dairy, but only raw dairy. His wife does the same, though she eats more fruit than he does. He has far more energy and feels much healthier than he did when eating fully paleo.

And so far this way of eating seems to have resulted in a very healthy pregnancy for my DiL She is 38 weeks along and ready and willing to have the baby *any day* now, considering the hot weather we have had lately. (though I have good friends who live in Freemantle, Western Australia, and I know our "hot" is not nearly as bad as it gets there in the summertime!)

And this is the diet they have chosen based on extensive research. I'm sure they will both agree that dairy and grains are not truly "paleo" but they believe them to be from very early neolithic at any rate, and feel that if consumed properly - soaked and fermented grains, raw dairy - they are an acceptable part of their diet.

Now clearly you disagree with them, and that's fine too. Many people do, and far more eat a much WORSE diet. But calling them or their choice "stupid" is going a bit far.

Personally I guess I'm more of a "fellow traveler". I follow the paleo threads because I'm interested in the paleo lifestyle. Unlike my son and DiL I don't eat any grains. But I do enjoy raw dairy. I have given up dairy in the past (as when I was following the Neanderthin diet back in 1998) but never experienced any better improvements in health or weight-loss when I was dairy-free. So I choose to incorporate some into my diet because I enjoy it. Butter from grass-fed cows is one of my favorite things. And raw heavy cream? Wow, I'll never buy supermarket cream again.

Yes, in fact he harped on it so much he sounds a bit like a eugenicist. But he stresses that these factors are due to diet and not genetics.

That's exactly why I think it would be interesting to see if diet actually can undo what seems to be an inherited trait.

Yeah, it almost makes me wish I weren't too old to produce a kid. I'm sure my Mom was probably D deficient. I have a very small jaw with very crowded teeth.

I'll have to keep track of how my grandson's teeth progress. My son had to have four teeth pulled when he got braces at age 13. But he and his wife are planning to raise their kids on a Weston A. Price eating plan, so will have to see if they grow up with the wide jaws and good teeth.

I think they have to start off in-utero with good levels of D and K2. The formation of the skull gets done very early on. WAPF is a pretty good eating plan but we don't really get much D from food, so they should either supplement or get lots and lots of sunshine.