Slightly decayed meat and fish, kept in ground, was one of Ainu’s tasty treats. They somehow contrived to disguise its rotten stink, can’t recall the trick, and claimed it was good for digestion. My dad had gastritis and they treated him with this ‘delicacy’ and stocks, octopus one in particular.
I’m not suggesting it to anyone though

Nancy, great articles. What about goat’s milk? I heard it somewhat matches human casein.

Thanks Nancy. Really interesting stuff. I wonder if somebody who was sensitive to human casein would not be sensitive to bovine casein? Or does sensitivity to one type of mammalian casein mean you are sensitive to them all. I'm not personally sensitive to any of the caseins I've consumed regularly. Loved human milk, drank cows' milk regularly for forty years with no ill effects (apart from the addiction of course ) until we got our own goats, and now only drink our own goats' milk (actually I don't drink whole milk since ditching the carbs five years ago, but we eat our own yog and cheese every day).

Anyway couldn't help noticing this in the stuff you posted:


Geez, and I was almost getting attached to the notion of being a casomorphin junkie .

The obvious dairy analogy is Stilton and all the 'rotten' cheeses. Personally, a really ripe Brie is about my limit. I think the increased bacterial activity in rotten food is what gives it its special nutritional powers.

And Stefannson was almost lyrical in his praise of the Innuit delicacy of really high fish.

Goat milk is much more digestible than cow milk; overall, it mimics human breast milk almost to a tee, nutritionally.

Here's a link on goat milk comparison to human and cow milk:
http://www.fiascofarm.com/dairy/goatmilk-breakdown.html

I actually thought about having a goat farm about 5 months ago. LOL..

Likewise I wanted to think of chocolate before.

Capo, thx for the links, Yes, I def.see similarity.
However, it doesn’t imply it it shall be tantamount to human, goat’s milk still contains betacellulin and exophins. I don’t remember the source but I read betacellulin amount is even bigger than in cow’s milk. Will try to find it.

Firm but just!

I've been using goats milk for kefir and I think it gives me symptoms too. I get pretty snotted up. I should switch back to water kefir but I thought my kefir grains were getting weird so I wanted to put them back onto their preferred medium for awhile.

Kefir grains? What is this? Would it work in almond "milk"?

Kefir "grains" are the culture that makes the kefir, they're not really grains, just clumps of bacteria that look like a rubbery bit of cauliflower.

Yeah, it'd work with almond milk. I used to make coconut milk kefir, but I wasn't really crazy about the taste. They feed off the lactose in milk but I think they can utilize other sugars.

Look for Dom's Kefir page on google, you'll be amazed by the information this guy has collected.

Eos, human milk contains considerably more betacellulin and exophins than either goat or bovine milk. This whole opioid metabolite argument is, I'm afraid, a crock. Sorry, but otherwise the longer an infant human was suckled before weaning the worse would be the 'symptoms' of this 'opioid addiction'. When in fact human infants experience no ill effects of drinking milk whatsoever (unless they are intolerant to either lactose or human casein).

In fact if a human infant is neither lactose or casein intolerant, and human milk is unavailable, the suitably fortified (to add certain nutrients they are low or lacking in) milk of any other mammal is far preferable to 'formula'.

And Hybrid and Eos, perhaps you are you suggesting that humans should only eat human meat .

Hilarious! Many thanks.

Oh, my, the same old song! I wish I could be as strict as Hybrid...

I’ll just say, I don’t feed the agri-troll anymore.

Eos, I know the PC paleo types desperately want to cling to the idea that dairy is not paleo. But IMHO, all mammals drink milk, so dairy actually considerably predates even the paleolithic. Most mammals, except certain human ancestries lose the ability to process lactose after weaning. So those people whose lactose tolerance persists can and do continue to thrive on a food is expressly designed to be a perfect food.

The mammals that haven't evolved the ability to process lactose after weaning do fine on fermented dairy and cheese. My horses are a perfect example of what a wonderful food lactose free dairy is. They have all been thriving for nearly eight years (which in terms of a horse's lifespan is indeed a long time) on regular feeds of goat yoghurt and cheese.

I believe I have stated the case that dairy is indeed paleo vigorously and without being at all intimidated by you and Hybrid's various attempts to ridicule me. Whenever it comes up I will continue to do so. If that makes me an 'agri troll' you'd better get used to it.

Please note that this is not the War Zone. If you wish to argue that Paleo included domisticating animals for their milk, you may start a new thread in the war zone for debate.

The idea for support sub-forums for each plan is for its followers to exchange information and support. If someone keeps posting into the Atkins sub-forum that ketosis is dangerous or that high carbs are required for optimimum health, etc., it would be considered a form of trolling.

Wa'il

Wa'il, I certainly don't wish to argue that Paleo included domesticating animals for their milk, no have I ever intimated anything of the sort. My argument has always been that all mammals, including paleo humans, until they are weaned drink milk. Excluding the diet of one age bracket of Paleo humans does seem a little ageist, wouldn't you agree? Not to mention censoring an extremely critical piece in the jigsaw of the dietary evolution of this species, namely during the paleolithic.

I can well understand that arguing that paleo included domesticating animals for their milk would be inflammatory and unwelcome on a paleo board. As well as being just a tiny bit silly .

Also, let's consider your 'ketosis danger on the Atkins sub forum' analogy for a moment. Why is it a valid analogy? It seems to me you are assuming that milk was not the most perfect food for paleo humans until weaning. I believe ketosis is the healthiest metabolic state for human beings, and I also believe that the lesson of milk consumption throughout the paleolithic during the most developmentally critical years of human life make the subject of milk consumption at least pertinent to the business of a paleo subforum. Are you suggesting an 'infant paleo' forum perhaps? Nobody, not even the PC paleo censors themselves, have ever denied that the only thing that changed after weaning was that the ability to metabolize lactose atrophied. Now of course I'm not suggesting that any Paleo adults continued to drink milk. But the Paleo anti dairy lobby would have us believe that milk is a dangerous addictive substance that has no place in adult human nutrition - and cite the absence of adult milk consumption during the paleolithic as some kind of paleo justification for not drinking milk. This is just bad science.

Now I'm not suggesting that our paleo milk drinking heritage means we should all drink milk (or even consume non lactose containing dairy either, for that matter). But what I am suggesting is that on Paleo grounds, dairy, (for those humans who are neither lactose nor casein intolerant) is a perfectly healthy food.
Wa'il, regrettably it does seem as if you too see me as an 'agri troll'?