Reriverita, before we discuss this, have you ever watched a video presentation by Gary Taubes. If not I would like it if you could take some time to watch this one before we go on. Because it would give us a good head start.

http://webcast.berkeley.edu/event_d...webcastid=21216

Patrick

Please note that I'm not even on the subject of ZC, VLC or LC at all here. I'm not saying one plan is better than another. I'm still at the very basics. And IMHO understanding the basics makes it easy for people to chose the right plan for them, while saving them a lot of time, trials and efforts.

Patrick

This makes sense to me. If you amp up the carbs too much, then yeah - weight loss could very well stall out. It's happened to me many times

I think that what you're really saying is that it's not quite as simple as calories in/calories out, and I agree with you. Sometimes you have to ask, "Just what kinda calories are we talking about here?" - and yes, too many carb calories are going to be a problem.

You know, I never did try and lower my calories. I ditched dairy, and increased vegetables. It worked. It was a coincidence that I happened to notice that BOTH my carbohydrate consumption and my calories dropped off. Adding in the vegetables had the effect of lowering my carb intake - crazy eh? There's only so much lettuce or asparagus I can eat, you know? But - I can easily eat two steaks or overdo it on the cream consumption.

So part of this is 'less food' and/or 'fewer calories' - but isn't it wild that when I added the vegetables, as per Dr. Atkins' Rules of Induction - my carbs dropped down??? I'm not kidding about this - I added in three cups of vegetables and had no chance in hell of getting anywhere near even the 20 total grams carbohydrate per day.

I didn't believe this. I'd read that the vegetables weren't nearly as "carby" as many think (thank you to Regina Wilshire!)...but was still very phobic about them. I had this fear of vegetables...

Oh well, at least I can laugh at myself about these things. Meanwhile, my experience is that when I added the vegetables into my menus, my carb intake dropped. I didn't have any room for any 'other' carbs, and furthermore - yeah, the calories did come into play - I could have two steaks or I could have one steak and some broccoli. As I lost more weight, the steak and broccoli just seemed to work better for me.

Funny ...but true:

I used to slosh cream in my coffee. It was like, "Would you like some actual coffee with all that cream you're having?". Meanwhile, here's me - in the kitchen, cutting up a single grape tomato into quarters - so it would seem like I was getting more tomato garnish.

I am actually glad you bother. As someone who reads more than posts, I enjoy reading your thoughts and information you share (though I may not agree with all of them). I enjoy reading the long discussions/debates in these threads and I have learned a lot-albeit with opposing viewpoints as well.

Someone in another thread posted an article from the Mayo clinic that basically said adrenal fatigue is a myth. I would link it, but I read so much last night that I don't know where it is.

If he's on Atkins, then he's got the book. The solution to a stall on Atkins is in the book.

Hi there,

I know you addressed Patrick, but I just wanted to direct you to the Barry Groves' site, "Second Opinions", where he explains a lot of stuff about low carbing.

His basic argument is that if you deprive the body of glucose, then it has to switch to burning fat, so basically, you need to make sure you eat mostly fat, some protein, and a few carbs (he recommends around 45-60g a day, or, with some people, easing in more gently and working your way down to that number). The reasoning behind this is that suddenly switching from a very high-carb diet to a very low-carb diet puts the body under huge stress, whereas easing in gently would give the body time to adjust.

amanda

Consider that the toxic threshold for carbohydrate intake in a population is 86 grams per day per person, then it's reasonable to expect some people to suffer at a much lower intake than that (like half). It's also just as reasonable to expect some people to do fine on a much higher intake (like double). Nevertheless, it doesn't change the nature of the poison, nor the consequences.

That link has an error. Here's a working link:
http://www.paleonu.com/panu-weblog/...ng-reasons.html

Hear hear!!! To Sara and Judy!!! And here's to vegetables!!!

I never went as low as 20g of carbs, ever, during my low-carb experiences gathered during the last 2 and a half years. The lowest I ever got down to was - once - 45g.

And, guess what, the longest times I didn't experience weight loss, when sticking to a regime that was generally between 70-100g of carbs per day, was about six days!!! They were the longest "stalls" I ever experienced.

I hope this experience will be regarded as relevant to some people here - I am a 46yo white female. This is what I wonder: can my relative "success" be attributed to the fact that I have never done the whole Atkins induction thing and stayed on 20g a day of carbs for weeks or months on end???

Of course, the disadvantage with my plan is that it is quite easy to go above 100g and it seems that something like 120g of carbs is my Critical Carbohydrate Limit. If I go up beyond 120g of carbs, I gain again. This, of course, has happened again and again, and this summer I didn't watch my carb intake very closely, or my beer intake and now I'm up again.

Nonetheless, I have managed to "maintain" - although I am using a somewhat broader definition of this concept than on the maintenance forum - my weight between 143lbs and 135lbs over the last two years. So far, if I want my weight to go down again, I just hop back on the wagon again, stay away from beer and keep my carbs to 70 - 100g per day and I'll lose around a pound a week, with mini-stalls in between, not a straight linear descent.

Just for your info: this is what has worked for me... I have never counted calories, and I use clarified butter and similar high-fat products liberally.

amanda

In essence, reducing total food intake will invariably reduce insulinogenic food intake. We don't need to reduce total food intake for this. We just need to reduce what causes insulin to rise. When it comes to food that contains calories, carbohydrate is one, protein is another, and alcohol is yet another. But fat is not one of those things that causes insulin to rise, nor does it cause cells to become insulin resistance to the point where they don't take in insulin anymore. There may be other agents, which are not seen as food but which we nevertheless ingest, that may affect the hormonal profile to the extent that it prevents us from shedding fat.

Here's a couple questions that will put it all into perspective. Counting carbohydrate, how many drugs do we ingest in substantial quantities with any regularity? And how many of those drugs play with our hormones?

Hello Patrick,

Can you repost the link you sent to me? I cannot find it now? I had asked a question about a client who eats only protein and is stalled on Atkins.

Thanks!

Hiya Martin,

You posted this:



Like I say, this is all extrapolation, not solid fact. Note that the word "suggested" is used frequently, too. I love GCBC, but this is just surmising, not evidence.

amanda

In the context of the entire book (and other books on the subject as well), it's rather pointless to argue whether it's a fact or not, don't you think? It's quite clear what causes us to grow fat, sick, weak and stupid. This bit merely establishes the threshold for the substance's toxicity. If we want to refute it, we must provide an alternative.

This website explains why people generally have more success on high-fat: http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/fat-not-protein.html

This page might also interest you: http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/do...ally-count.html


This really sounds like this person has an issue with some form of food intolerance or inflammation. It could be a lot of things.

Is he using or eating food with a lot of vegetable oils (like mayo maybe)? Because this can really stall you when you have too much Omega 6.

Is he using artificial sweeteners (like diet cola)? Some research demonstrated that AS can result, in some people, in more insulin secretion just by tasting something sweet.

If he is on Atkins. He could try a Fat Fast to brake the plateau: http://www.low-carb.com/atarfatfa.html

I can also tell you that exercise is only mostly useful to help you be more fit and insulin-sensitive thus helping insulin do it's job in the muscles and lowering insulin levels a bit. With lower insulin levels, the fat cells releases more energy.

So 80% of the efforts should be put on teaching the client all they need to know regarding nutrition, so that they can make the proper decisions by themselves. Unfortunately, the majority of the info out there is not right or incomplete. If they can read all the articles on www.paleonu.com it will give them a very good head start.

I don't know if this is the info you wanted? If you wanted to know exactly why calories do not matter, I'll be happy to oblige.

Patrick